Capital Punishment - Think again.......

[Bielzibubz]

I'm not really an advocate of the death penalty. I, like others, sat on the fence somewhat when this debate raged before on here. This particular case though is one of those where I believe that the crime is so heinous (thank you Firefox spell check) that living, in no matter what circumstances, is not a fit and just punishment. And that above all is what our judicial system is there for. To meter out punishment to those that deserve it.

 

[Lord Football]

i am certain that when this country executed murderers the rate of murders was around 150 per year in england and wales,today this figure is approaching 2000.

basic maths suggest at this rate more and more prisons will have to be built to house the lifers.

regarding the costs thats down to silly human rights issues i expect.

my view,

someone murders they are tried and convicted if the murder has special relevance ie the ripper ect execute them within 6 weeks.........job done.

of course execution should not be used willy nilly,however in many murder trials i have read/seen it should def be returned.

I felt a stat coming on. Did a very quick bit of research.

According to the Guardian the murder rate fell 9%
According to the Express the murder rose 14%
According to the Liverpool Echo the murder rate in that city was halved

I'll check the ONS when I am feeling particularly anal retentive.

I will mention the Birmingham 6, the Carl Bridgewater "killers", the Guildford 4, the guy that "killed" Rachel Nikel, the guy that "killed" Jill Dando. They'd all be dead now, executed by the state. All now proven innocent. So, is the state killing of an innocent person under the auspices of the Law any different to killing of an innocent person for any other reason.

Surely this is even less reason to lock them up long term when they could have been hanged. At some stage the prison sentence end and they are let out. Does that mean we will be letting mentally unstable people out of prison?

I didn't say anything about letting them out. Despite my bleeding heart leftie liberal tendences (not to mention pomposity), I do think that life should mean life.


LF
Trying not to be pompous.

 

[graysblue]

I felt a stat coming on. Did a very quick bit of research.

According to the Guardian the murder rate fell 9%
According to the Express the murder rose 14%
According to the Liverpool Echo the murder rate in that city was halved

I'll check the ONS when I am feeling particularly anal retentive.

I will mention the Birmingham 6, the Carl Bridgewater "killers", the Guildford 4, the guy that "killed" Rachel Nikel, the guy that "killed" Jill Dando. They'd all be dead now, executed by the state. All now proven innocent. So, is the state killing of an innocent person under the auspices of the Law any different to killing of an innocent person for any other reason.



I didn't say anything about letting them out. Despite my bleeding heart leftie liberal tendences (not to mention pomposity), I do think that life should mean life.


LF
Trying not to be pompous.

with DNA advances the killers have little room to escape their crime.

as i stated it should not be used willy nilly however it should be used for police killers,child killers,sex killers.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Slaughter them all. I mean the commies.

 

[Einstein]

i am certain that when this country executed murderers the rate of murders was around 150 per year in england and wales,today this figure is approaching 2000.

From March 2006 - March 2007 = 759 murders. Stats can be found here.

Cannot find an exact amount for 1960's, however I did find this:

Homicides per million population in England and Wales
Year - Homicides
1900 - 9.6
1910 - 8.1
1920 - 8.3
1930 - 7.5
1950 - 7.9
1955 - 6.3
1960 - 6.2
1965 - 6.8
1970 - 8.1
1975 - 10.3
1980 - 12.5
1985 - 12.5
1990 - 13.1
1995 - 14.5
1997 - 14.1

So, although it is obviously increasing, it is not quite the figures stated. 1960's also had the lowest homicide statistics in the 20th century.

And this is from someone who is in favour of the death penalty, but it is certainly not on the basis that it should just bring down the amount of murders which are supposedly clogging up the prisons. It should be for the scumbags who are serial murderers and where there is indisputable evidence.

 

[Lord Football]

Slaughter them all. I mean the commies.

Love you too. :(

 

[Southend_Lady]

Thought the point about capital punishment is that it doesn't give anyone a chance to think again?

If people knew there was a death sentence before they comitted crimes then it may well deter them in the first place. No one should be able to purposely take another life without expecting their own to be taken from them. Simple.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Love you too. :(

I thought you were a socialist LF? And that there's a world of difference......

 

[londonblue]

It should be for the scumbags who are serial murderers and where there is indisputable evidence.

That for me is the issue. There's simply no way you can ever be 100% sure. Even when you think you are.

 

[steveo]

didn't say anything about letting them out. Despite my bleeding heart leftie liberal tendences (not to mention pomposity), I do think that life should mean life.

You and me both, and most other people I know. Unfortunately the people who decide dont seem to agree.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Can we keep this pertinent to this particular case. Whilst I understand peoples misgivings on capital punishment I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone should think that the scum who carried out this particular crime against little baby P should warrant another day breathing on this planet.

Certain crimes go beyond the arguments of social morals, punishment being a deterrent, human rights etc.

Read through the catalogue of injuries this poor little child had to endure throughout it's short desperate life and then come back and explain to me why the perpetrator of those injuries deserves another day on this planet.

 

[graysblue]

From March 2006 - March 2007 = 759 murders. Stats can be found here.

Cannot find an exact amount for 1960's, however I did find this:

Homicides per million population in England and Wales
Year - Homicides
1900 - 9.6
1910 - 8.1
1920 - 8.3
1930 - 7.5
1950 - 7.9
1955 - 6.3
1960 - 6.2
1965 - 6.8
1970 - 8.1
1975 - 10.3
1980 - 12.5
1985 - 12.5
1990 - 13.1
1995 - 14.5
1997 - 14.1

So, although it is obviously increasing, it is not quite the figures stated. 1960's also had the lowest homicide statistics in the 20th century.

And this is from someone who is in favour of the death penalty, but it is certainly not on the basis that it should just bring down the amount of murders which are supposedly clogging up the prisons. It should be for the scumbags who are serial murderers and where there is indisputable evidence.

yes your stats are correct,i am certain i recently saw a report which stated the muder rate was 1800 ?

however i must have been mistaken.

 

[Jonny_Stokes]

Read through the catalogue of injuries this poor little child had to endure throughout it's short desperate life and then come back and explain to me why the perpetrator of those injuries deserves another day on this planet.

It's horrific. Worse than horrific. I haven't got the vocabulary to express my contempt for the guy, or the other two who stood by and let it happen. To have that desire to inflict such grevious injury on another human being is beyond deplorable. Which is why I'd never want to reciprocate in kind.

yes your stats are correct,i am certain i recently saw a report which stated the muder rate was 1800 ?

however i must have been mistaken.

1,800 per million = 1,800 * 60 (approx) = 108,000 murders in the UK last year...

 

[Bielzibubz]

Which is why I'd never want to reciprocate in kind.

No one is advocating reciprocation in kind. We are talking about capital punishment, not months of slow torture the likes of which this poor child had to endure. The two are totally different.

 

[Napster]

I would like to know how many immigrants commit murder then get kept here in our prisons?

Or are they all released and left to drive their cars unlicensed?

 

[Jonny_Stokes]

No one is advocating reciprocation in kind. We are talking about capital punishment, not months of slow torture the likes of which this poor child had to endure. The two are totally different.

Technically, the result isn't. If you're looking for something proportionate to the crime, then surely years of captivity is more appropriate*?

*please note: I have already mentioned that I am an advocate of making conditions in prison a whole lot more unpleasant.

 

[Pubey]

in 1975 no one died. In 1976, no one died. In 1977, no one died. In 1978, no one died. In 1979, no-one died. In 1980... some one died. In 1981, no one died. In 1982 there was the incident with the pigeon. In 1983, no one died. In 1984, no one died. In 1985, no one died. In 1986... I mean, I could go on.

 

[londonblue]

I would like to know how many immigrants commit murder then get kept here in our prisons?

Or are they all released and left to drive their cars unlicensed?

Of course they are, but only at weekends.

 

[Firestorm]

yes your stats are correct,i am certain i recently saw a report which stated the muder rate was 1800 ?

however i must have been mistaken.

my guess would be thats the murder count, which given JS's calcs would give a murder rate of 30 per mill (assuming a population of 60 million)

However the Express says here http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/42677/Knifings-and-shootings-up-as-murder-rate-soars- that there were 734 homicides in 2006

 

[Bielzibubz]

*please note: I have already mentioned that I am an advocate of making conditions in prison a whole lot more unpleasant.

And there in lies the crux of the problem. You and I both know that will never happen thanks to the bleeding heart liberals and human rights advocates who protect those that have given up theirs due to their actions.

Given that even a sentence of 50+ years without the possibility of parole is likely to be spent with the comforts of a life that the poor child will never have are you still in favour of locking this scumbag up?