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Richard_Cadette

The Realist
Joined
May 11, 2005
Messages
1,613
Location
Eastwood, Leigh-on-Sea
I didnt go to Plymouth today after what happened at Roots Hall last Saturday, the first time I have ever let the result of a match dictate whether or not I travel to an away game, but by mid morning I was feeling both incredibly guilty about not going down there to support the boys and also missing that feeling of nervous excitement in the build up to a match.....

How relieved I am about the decision I made.

Two things stand out about this match listening to it on the radio, and subsequently speaking to a distraught friend who was there...

Firstly, we are desperate for three points, a point in all honestly was not going to be enough, and what does the manager do? Takes off our biggest goal threat. Now granted, I wasnt at the match, but from what I could hear, and from his alleged reaction, it has to go down as one of the strangest decisions ever. The commentators were in disbelief at Freddy being taken off, as was he himself, and to compound that decision, he gets replaced with Harrold!! I mean come on.

If you are that keen to bring Harrold on, then fine, do so, but not at the expense of our best striker, that is just ridiculous. We needed 3 points, so take off a midfielder or a defender. Foran barely touched the ball by the sounds of it after coming on, so why not take him off and go 3 up top?? That decision is a catasrophically poor one and could possibly have denied us getting three points. I and no one else can say that for sure, but it certainly didnt help our cause!

Secondly, a round of applause for our Captain Fantastic, getting booked yet again for back chatting a referee and effectively ending his, and our, season with is. That is beyond comprehension that he could be that stupid and thoughtless to get a booking for something so inoculous and miss, possibly, although as it turns out, probably not, the two most crucial games of our season.

Another shocking day at the office by the manager and compunded by our captain. I wonder if he will come out and admit he was out of order? It would be nice!

Plymouth had nothing to play for, and by the sounds of it, that was clear as after they scored, it was all us and they were there for the taking, but yuet again we have let ourselves down in a match which was so crucial. It is so frustrating!

Next Saturdays game against Luton is academic now as we have to rely on Hull and Leeds not winning one of the remaining two games between them for us to stay up, and that is assuming we win both games, which if I am being honest, I cant see us winning either!

Still, at least it will be a chance for our midfielders we have sitting on the bench chomping at the bit to get on to have a game next week... Oh, wait a minute? We havent got any have we!!
 

A Century United

Firewalking for HD
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Messages
10,004
Nothing like a nice knee-jerk reaction before the facts are known, eh, R_C? Yes, Maher getting booked sounds poor but you have NO IDEA why Eastwood was substituted, (the BBC said he was injured, BTW) yet you still get stuck right into Tilson without waiting to check any facts. I had a bet on as to whether it was you or wiggy who launched the first tirade...
 
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
698
At this stage of the season it's very easy to try and identify key-moments within games that have 'cost us'. But the reality is we were relegated long ago, and these 'moments' have occured throughout the season in most of the games we've played. To lay blame at the door of captain and manager today is unfair and unhelpful.
 

JoshC

Members
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Messages
3,151
good post
also any news on gower if hes out then it is goodnight
 

Dustybin

Youth Team
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
231
Another moaning essay as per usual...do you ever have anything nice to say about anyone?
 

Cricko2

Guest
Lets be honest lads we all love our team but the Fat Lady has sung now. Lets look forward to next year and League 1 and rebuild from there.
 

BrettieAngell

THE ROCK GOD
Joined
Oct 26, 2003
Messages
19,642
Location
Southend
Lets be honest lads we all love our team but the Fat Lady has sung now. Lets look forward to next year and League 1 and rebuild from there.

Exactly, we can anaylse this season to death but to be honest I'm bored ****less with it.

Lets learn from our mistakes and move on!
 

Richard_Cadette

The Realist
Joined
May 11, 2005
Messages
1,613
Location
Eastwood, Leigh-on-Sea
Nothing like a nice knee-jerk reaction before the facts are known, eh, R_C? Yes, Maher getting booked sounds poor but you have NO IDEA why Eastwood was substituted, (the BBC said he was injured, BTW) yet you still get stuck right into Tilson without waiting to check any facts. I had a bet on as to whether it was you or wiggy who launched the first tirade...

Equally I would have put money on you being the first to defend manager and players alike no matter what, so I guess were even on that account.

One would assume that from Freddy's reaction about coming off, i.e., shaking his head, that it wasnt through injury. I could well be wrong, but I doubt it.

The facts are that we have lost yet again to a team we should have not lost to, those are the facts and as they say in Judge John Deed, they are indisputable.

You say wait until I have my facts, well at least one of the comments I said was fact, Maher got booked for back chatting the referee... Do you think that acceptable at this stage? I presume you are also going to take apart everyone elses thread who has said the same about this?

Bottom line is we are now effectively relegated and todays game is a mini snippet of our entire season, silly mistakes by both players and management alike costing us games.

Dont put me in the same category as Wiggy, not once have I ever read a post by him/her that has ever justified what they are saying, I on the other hand almost always will try and back my argument up with facts and reason, just as you do sometimes, that is when you are not just moaning at me for being negative in the face of yet another bad day at the office.
 

Kris

Easily replaceable⭐
Joined
Jun 30, 2004
Messages
3,595
Location
Stratford
The facts are that we have lost yet again to a team we should have not lost to, those are the facts and as they say in Judge John Deed, they are indisputable.

Eh? That is certainly disputable. Plymouth's home record is pretty damn good. Realistically I thought we'd get no more than a draw today.
 

Richard_Cadette

The Realist
Joined
May 11, 2005
Messages
1,613
Location
Eastwood, Leigh-on-Sea
Eh? That is certainly disputable. Plymouth's home record is pretty damn good. Realistically I thought we'd get no more than a draw today.

I was referring to how the game panned out, I wasnt basing that on anything that happened prior to the match.

Yes, Plymouth are good at home, but equally, I would imagine the majority of there players have more than one eye on there summer holidays and laying on a beach somewhere sipping cocktails. From when we went 1-0 down, we bossed the remainder of the first half, and on that basis, they were there for the taking.
 

A Century United

Firewalking for HD
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Messages
10,004
Equally I would have put money on you being the first to defend manager and players alike no matter what, so I guess were even on that account.

One would assume that from Freddy's reaction about coming off, i.e., shaking his head, that it wasnt through injury. I could well be wrong, but I doubt it.

The facts are that we have lost yet again to a team we should have not lost to, those are the facts and as they say in Judge John Deed, they are indisputable.

You say wait until I have my facts, well at least one of the comments I said was fact, Maher got booked for back chatting the referee... Do you think that acceptable at this stage? I presume you are also going to take apart everyone elses thread who has said the same about this?

Bottom line is we are now effectively relegated and todays game is a mini snippet of our entire season, silly mistakes by both players and management alike costing us games.

Dont put me in the same category as Wiggy, not once have I ever read a post by him/her that has ever justified what they are saying, I on the other hand almost always will try and back my argument up with facts and reason, just as you do sometimes, that is when you are not just moaning at me for being negative in the face of yet another bad day at the office.

But my point was exactly that. After all that Tilson and Brush have done for us supporters, it would be nice if you wouldn't just ASSUME and waited to be SURE of your facts before launching another attack. But I think that your self-belief is such that you never seriously consider that you might be wrong.

Saying we lost to a team "we should not have lost to" is just an opinion, and an opinion from a long distance to boot. You may believe it implicitly, but that does NOT make it a fact.

Maher getting booked. You obviously haven't read my post, I said it sounded poor. I didn't defend him - though I think that he too has done enough for the club to be cut some slack occasionally. And I'm sorry if it offends you, but I do put you up there with wiggy. You may think you justify your posts with facts, but too often what you call facts are your opinions.

Yes, I defend Manager and Players, because I think that they deserve to be treated with respect, which means waiting until we have the FACTS before judging them, and when we judge them weighing in the balance ALL that they have done for this club and us supporters.
 

HawkwellShrimper

Youth Team
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
233
The way I see it is we're relegated anyway... why not just start with Charles Ademeno and Franck Moussa the next too games, even the players that will defiantly be here next season?

I know it will never happen but what have they got too lose? Nothing. What have they got to gain? Everything!

I personally would love to see Tilly start with Franck Moussa against Luton, but I bet we end up with Clarke in the middle of Midfield again...
 

Richard_Cadette

The Realist
Joined
May 11, 2005
Messages
1,613
Location
Eastwood, Leigh-on-Sea
But my point was exactly that. After all that Tilson and Brush have done for us supporters, it would be nice if you wouldn't just ASSUME and waited to be SURE of your facts before launching another attack. But I think that your self-belief is such that you never seriously consider that you might be wrong.

Saying we lost to a team "we should not have lost to" is just an opinion, and an opinion from a long distance to boot. You may believe it implicitly, but that does NOT make it a fact.

Maher getting booked. You obviously haven't read my post, I said it sounded poor. I didn't defend him - though I think that he too has done enough for the club to be cut some slack occasionally. And I'm sorry if it offends you, but I do put you up there with wiggy. You may think you justify your posts with facts, but too often what you call facts are your opinions.

Yes, I defend Manager and Players, because I think that they deserve to be treated with respect, which means waiting until we have the FACTS before judging them, and when we judge them weighing in the balance ALL that they have done for this club and us supporters.

Well if that is what it comes down to, as you say, too often I use opinions rather than fact, then I guess that makes you just as bad as me, because almost all of what you write there is your opinion, but not a fact, so again, we are fairly equal.

The very bottom line is that we have done very poorly this season, and too many mistakes have been made by both players and management alike, that isnt my OPINION, that is FACT, because if it was anything else, we wouldnt be here right now.

You are entitled to be supportive of the managers and players after what has happened over the last 2 years, and quite rightly so. I am not calling for his head, I am not demanding anyone be sacked, I am simply stating mistakes have been made and just as praise is given when good things are done, criticism has to be dished out when things are not working.

Do you seriously expect people to be happy with how this season has panned out? If you are happy with it then that is your perogative, but the majority are not.

12 months ago, I would have agreed with you, i said it doesnt matter if we come back down, because we have made it there in the first place, and it is not the fact we are going to get relegated that bothers me so much, it is the way it is happening.

Stupid mistakes, again today, conceding from set pieces, I mean how many goals this season have we conceded from set pieces and how costly has that proven? Very, and where does the buck stop for that? It is poor organisation and decision which are undermining the team and the club and no matter how much you refuse to ever say a bad word about what has happened, it is undeniable.

You seem to take this high and mighty approach, along with the moral high ground, because you stand firm and dibt criticise when things are going wrong, but my point of view is just as valid as yours, but unlike yours it would seem, I also have the ability to see when things are being done right and I will say so.

If you think this season has been a success, or you think that there is nothing to moan about, then I would have to question your asperations for the club?

This season has been a massive opportunity thrown away, we have an average crowd of nigh on 10,000, we have money coming in left, right, and centre. we have all the good work done by Uncle Ron regarding the stadium and the club is supposed to be on the up. Instead, what has happened large amounts have been invested in sub standard players, the management have then wittled down the size of the squad to one which is not big enough to cope with the strains of life in the second tier of English football and on top of that, tactics at times have been inexplicable.

What is going to happen next season? Will we get 6-7,000 season ticket holders? Extremely unlikely, will we average 10,000? No chance, unless are right at the top from the very off, will we lose vital revenue from TV money and sponsorship by being relegated? Yes, of course we will, and will it be harder to get back up than to have stayed up this season? Yes, a damn sight harder.

We have done wonderfully over the last 2 years, no denying that, and everyone deserves credit, but that means nothing if we throw it all away now does it? Yes we will be one division higher than where we were when Tilly got involved, so progress has been made whatever, BUT, look what happened the last time we dropped to League One? We havent spent more than one season at a time in that league for a very long while.

You will no doubt disagree with the majority of what I have posted, that is your perogative, but dont attack my point of view just because it doesnt fit in with your belief that the club should not be criticised and you think I am being negative.
 

A Century United

Firewalking for HD
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Messages
10,004
The way I see it is we're relegated anyway... why not just start with Charles Ademeno and Franck Moussa the next too games, even the players that will defiantly be here next season?

I know it will never happen but what have they got too lose? Nothing. What have they got to gain? Everything!

I personally would love to see Tilly start with Franck Moussa against Luton, but I bet we end up with Clarke in the middle of Midfield again...

But what if Leeds and Hull both lost on Saturday, and we drew or lost to Luton playing Ademeno and Moussa? The flack on this board would set my PC on fire! I agree, it would be great to play the youngsters, but while there is any chance, however small, of getting out of this the club will play the "strongest" (in the management's opinion) team.
 

A Century United

Firewalking for HD
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Messages
10,004
I think I said that it was prudent to wait before you criticised, and to make sure that you had all the facts to hand. I said that Maher being booked LOOKED poor, but Ailsa Road Shrimper has turned up this interesting snippet:


Two First Team matches​
(v) If a Player accumulates ten recorded cautions in FTCM between the opening day
of the Playing Season and the last day of the same Season, he will be: -​
“Severely Censured and Warned as to his future Conduct”​

which rather makes my point about waiting for the facts.
 
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