Brexit negotiations thread

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

I don’t think anything would be gained or lost if any of us were ‘silenced’. Clearly there are differing perspectives on what is a serious issue - anti-semitism. It’s all a bit murky and I wouldn’t want to say I could be completely clear how endemic it is in any party, but there are concerns about how some events have unfolded through Labour, or in Labour-affiliated events. So it’s worthy of discussion although it’s too much to hope that everyone will eventually agree. No need to get personal with each other about it.

No one is being silenced - its Rigsby playing the victim when its clear he is the instigator.

When he states untruths that should be pointed out no matter how much that frustrates him.

Personally I do think the anti-Semitic statement he has used should be deleted.

 

[Member]

Rigsby is a troll. Just ignore him.
Anti-semitism should be called out, but when it's a troll it's best to ignore.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

But would you agree that Jewish MP's having to be escorted to the party conference by police and now Jewish members of the party being banned from meetings looks rather bad?
Of course there isn't a problem - it's all made up by the right wing media.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45871254

Meanwhile, back on topic,it's going to be an interesting 48 hours for Mrs May.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Brexit doesn't look as though it is going anywhere fast, maybe Jeremy Corbyn is its only hope? He so superbly managed his party's position on Brexit in the last General Election that remainers voted Labour, believing they were pro-europe, whilst leavers voted Labour, believing they were pro-Brexit. Bring him into the negotiations and he will surely come up with a form of words which will make both sides (even the DUP) believe they have won the argument over the Ireland border dispute.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

More seriously, I was thinking that the current situation with Saudi Arabia concerning the death of Jamal Khashoggi gives a perfect illustration of our likely future diplomatic weakness outside the EU. One would hope for world condemnation and sanctions following this incident (when, of course, it is clarified) but sadly I know that won't be the case. Trump is already desperately looking for ways to avoid criticism which could effect trade and influence with this intollerent country with already much blood on its hands. I would, at least, hope for a united EU response when the situation is elucidated. The Saudi regime is less likely to act against 27 nations
Canada, as a sole nation, had 'the audacity' to criticise Saudi Arabia over human rights https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/saudi-arabia-sanctions-canada-ambassador-1.4776502 and paid the price with sanctions. A future UK, free of the EU, would almost certainly be treated in the same way if we were to make similar remarks............which of course we wouldn't. We will be so desperate for money and securing jobs that we, without conscience, would be prepared to deal and trade with any regime, no matter how nasty it was.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Brexit doesn't look as though it is going anywhere fast, maybe Jeremy Corbyn is its only hope? He so superbly managed his party's position on Brexit in the last General Election that remainers voted Labour, believing they were pro-europe, whilst leavers voted Labour, believing they were pro-Brexit. Bring him into the negotiations and he will surely come up with a form of words which will make both sides (even the DUP) believe they have won the argument over the Ireland border dispute.

At least under Labour and Jeremy Corbyn the UK would be in a or the customs union. There's clear daylight between that position and coming out of the single market and the customs union under the Tories.Also under Labour, a second referendum remains on the table if there's no GE soon.

 

[blues exile]

But would you agree that Jewish MP's having to be escorted to the party conference by police and now Jewish members of the party being banned from meetings looks rather bad?
Of course there isn't a problem - it's all made up by the right wing media.

Jewish MPs were not escorted by the police, this is an out and out untruth, no ifs no buts.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

But would you agree that Jewish MP's having to be escorted to the party conference by police and now Jewish members of the party being banned from meetings looks rather bad?
Of course there isn't a problem - it's all made up by the right wing media.

Can someone please explain to me what on earth one Jewish MP being escorted by Police at the recent Labour Party conference has to do with Brexit? Don't think I've ever seen a more blatant attempt to throw a dead dog on the table, in order to avoid discussing what is perhaps the most important political issue of our time.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

At least under Labour and Jeremy Corbyn the UK would be in a or the customs union. There's clear daylight between that position and coming out of the single market and the customs union under the Tories.Also under Labour, a second referendum remains on the table if there's no GE soon.

TUIB we both agree so much on the mess the present catastrophic government are making of Brexit, it's sad that when we turn to Labour Party policy I find the same amount of nonsense...........if not more. The Labour Party is still trying to keep to a policy that will please everyone and in the end pleases no one.
You really don't need to go any further than the second of their six tests for Brexit, to find them entering ito the same dream world as the Tories.

Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?

You KNOW this is absolute rubbish, we've been told time and time again that you CANNOT have the same benefits outside the EU as when we were a member. You can't, in spite of Corbyn's claims, get a better deal than May.........it doesn't exist, it's not on offer.
Your proposition of keeping in some kind of customs union is also surely contrary to what people voted Brexit for. It keeps us tied to the EU, as I've said before it is Brexit in name only. It's a damage limitation exercise that will leave us in a far worse position than we presently find ourselves as members.
Your commitment to a 'peoples vote' is uncommital as is the rest of your 'policy.' I ask again WHERE WOULD BE THE BENEFITS OF LABOUR'S BREXIT OVER WHAT WE PRESENTLY HAVE AS MEMBERS????? What honestly would be the point of it all, apart from just paying some kind of expensive lip service to the original referendum result?

 

[pottster]

We will be so desperate for money and securing jobs that we, without conscience, would be prepared to deal and trade with any regime, no matter how nasty it was.

To be fair we have always dealt with nasty regimes, Mugabe,saddam, assad the Saudis the list goes on .I don't think Brexit will make any difference, we will still supply them with whatever they want! It may make life easier for the government.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

To be fair we have always dealt with nasty regimes, Mugabe,saddam, assad the Saudis the list goes on .I don't think Brexit will make any difference, we will still supply them with whatever they want! It may make life easier for the government.

Of course you are right, France as well as the UK is sadly an ethusiastic supplier of arms to the Saudi regime. My point was that, as a group of nations in the EU, it is somewhat easier to exert more influence and take some kind of united moral stance (even if limited) over this regime, than just as a sole country.

 

[rigsby]

Of course you are right, France as well as the UK is sadly an ethusiastic supplier of arms to the Saudi regime. My point was that, as a group of nations in the EU, it is somewhat easier to exert more influence and take some kind of united moral stance (even if limited) over this regime, than just as a sole country.

That’s one of the greatest disappointments about the EU. Rather than use their power to block arms sales or even wars...it’s a case of ‘if we don’t someone else will’

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

That’s one of the greatest disappointments about the EU. Rather than use their power to block arms sales or even wars...it’s a case of ‘if we don’t someone else will’

ditto UN............it's a sad world!

 

[rigsby]

The BBC are saying wages are rising at there highest rate for 10 years....Looks like all tha Brexit xenophobia is working.

Even the rental sector is really quiet some landlords can’t rent flats locally for the same price they got with ease 3 years ago.

If this continues and ordinary workers start to see the benefits of Brexit I think we should have another referendum because I’m starting to regret voting out. After all the whole point of the EU is to look after the haves.

 

[rigsby]

ditto UN............it's a sad world!

When I was younger I always wondered why the UN was such a toothless Tiger. Since then I have learnt that its just there to endorse US policy.

When I say US I mean the industrial/military war machine that is now the silent but very dangerous Empire around the world.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

TUIB we both agree so much on the mess the present catastrophic government are making of Brexit, it's sad that when we turn to Labour Party policy I find the same amount of nonsense...........if not more. The Labour Party is still trying to keep to a policy that will please everyone and in the end pleases no one.
You really don't need to go any further than the second of their six tests for Brexit, to find them entering ito the same dream world as the Tories.

Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?

You KNOW this is absolute rubbish, we've been told time and time again that you CANNOT have the same benefits outside the EU as when we were a member. You can't, in spite of Corbyn's claims, get a better deal than May.........it doesn't exist, it's not on offer.
Your proposition of keeping in some kind of customs union is also surely contrary to what people voted Brexit for. It keeps us tied to the EU, as I've said before it is Brexit in name only. It's a damage limitation exercise that will leave us in a far worse position than we presently find ourselves as members.
Your commitment to a 'peoples vote' is uncommital as is the rest of your 'policy.' I ask again WHERE WOULD BE THE BENEFITS OF LABOUR'S BREXIT OVER WHAT WE PRESENTLY HAVE AS MEMBERS????? What honestly would be the point of it all, apart from just paying some kind of expensive lip service to the original referendum result?

Ironically,the second of the 6 tests which you highlight here was promised by Mrs May's government.While I would agree that this particular test is "absolute rubbish" ie impossible to fulfil,I happen to think the other tests will come in useful when-in the fullness of time-Mrs May presents any deal she is able to negotiate before parliament.

Nobody really knows what the British public voted for. Just that they voted to leave the EU.

What is on offer from the EU-always assuming that the NI backstop situation can be sorted-is some sort of trade deal, either along Norway or Canada lines.Realistically,that's the best we're going to get.Personally I favour the former option.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Of course you are right, France as well as the UK is sadly an ethusiastic supplier of arms to the Saudi regime. My point was that, as a group of nations in the EU, it is somewhat easier to exert more influence and take some kind of united moral stance (even if limited) over this regime, than just as a sole country.

Incidentally,Macron will be going to Colombia later this month to talk about selling arms there.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Ironically,the second of the 6 tests which you highlight here was promised by Mrs May's government.While I would agree that this particular test is "absolute rubbish" ie impossible to fulfil,I happen to think the other tests will come in useful when-in the fullness of time-Mrs May presents any deal she is able to negotiate before parliament.

Nobody really knows what the British public voted for. Just that they voted to leave the EU.

What is on offer from the EU-always assuming that the NI backstop situation can be sorted-is some sort of trade deal, either along Norway or Canada lines.Realistically,that's the best we're going to get.Personally I favour the former option.

Yes, I appreciate that is the least damaging arrangement on offer but what advantages does it offer over our present situation. From what I understand it means us continuing to pay into the EU but without any say. We'd escape the ECJ but replace it with the EFTA court. Wouldn't it also tie us to the EU without the possibility of making all those 'SUPER' () trade deals all over the world?

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

"Stand together and stand firm." May's words to her Cabinet today. So, more of the same with the policy of waiting for the EU to blink. It hasn't worked so far and I very much fear it will not work any time soon. Is Theresa taking sanwiches for Wednesday evening?