Favourite manager for SUFC

[HUMBLEPIE]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Jan. 19 2005,08:45)]*Jobson sacked Webb... Webby didn't walk out on us.

Matt Webb wasn't sacked he saw out his contract to the end of the season, I was told at the time not by the pram shop man, they fell out because Webb had a 5 year plan to get us into the Premier$hite and Jobson told him until he owned the club he could stick his 5 year plan and Webb told him he would see out his contract. You as lawyer might call that constructive dismissal me if your not happy where you work look elsewhere, he who pays the piper calls the tune...

 

[Ron Manager]

The fact of the matter is that if Tilly continues to have success he will probably move on to pasture's new at some time in the future. However if that happens he will conduct himself in the right manner and I believe Southend United fans will wish him all the best for the future at his new club.

That is the difference!

I don't hate Fry for leaving us to manage Brum, I hate him for the way he did it!

 

[W4 Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Ron Manager @ Jan. 19 2005,10:33)]I don't hate Fry for leaving us to manage Brum, I hate him for the way he did it!

That about sums it up for me. Birmingham ARE a bigger club than Southend, you can't blame him for going. But the way he did it was underhand...

 

[HUMBLEPIE]

Quote[/b] (W4 Shrimper @ Jan. 19 2005,10:57)]

Quote[/b] (Ron Manager @ Jan. 19 2005,10:33)]I don't hate Fry for leaving us to manage Brum, I hate him for the way he did it!

That about sums it up for me. Birmingham ARE a bigger club than Southend, you can't blame him for going. But the way he did it was underhand...

same for me....but I do get pleasure when he gets into difficulties like when he first took over Peterboro and had to remortgage his house because they had bigger debts than he was led to believe....and if he still manager when they get relegated this season...

 

[TrueBlue]

Quote[/b] ] I was told at the time not by the pram shop man

Lovers tiff at the time then

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (HUMBLEPIE @ Jan. 19 2005,10:27)]You as lawyer might call that constructive dismissal

I would, yes. Saying to someone "I'm not going to renew your contract" is pretty much the same as saying "you're fired in 5 months' time."

Matt

 

[southend4ever]

there's a circus in the town, in the town,
barry fry is a clown, is a clown,
karen brady is a f***ing whore,
and birmingham are going down, going down.

 

[Suffolk Shrimper In Dorset]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Jan. 19 2005,07:45)]

Quote[/b] (Suffolk Shrimper @ Jan. 18 2005,22:29)]Webb: got us success but at our peak threw his toys out of the pram when we were top dogs instead of being a real Southend man. Unforgiveable.

Hmm... very swift to judge, Suffolk Blue.  Does anyone on here (other than the man in the Pram shop, perhaps...) really know the full circumstances behind Webby & Jobson's bust-up?

I know I don't.  I'd be amazed if anyone did.

Let's not forget, after all, that when we were still in the Div 2 playoff zone in January, Jobson told Webb that his contract would not be renewed in the summer.  That much we all know.  So Jobson pulled the rug out from under our season by (effectively) sacking Webb.

Even if we don't know the reasons behind Jobson doing that, your statement still seems more than a little harsh.  The facts remain that:

*Webb took this club to its zenith at Bury, and then again on 1st January 1992.

*Jobson sacked Webb... Webby didn't walk out on us.

And for that (plus the fact that, as I've said elsewhere, I wasn't a Southend fan before 1990, so I don't really know about the time before Webb), Webby will remain this club's greatest manager in my eyes.

Quote[/b] (Suffolk Shrimper @ Jan. 18 2005,22:29)]Tilly: ok, and I'll support him, but at the end of the day he just seems be be missing a spark.

As for your comments on Tilly... crumbs.  Of the 20 league games since our season properly got on track on August 30th, with our victory over Macc Town, we've won 11 of those games.  That's over half.  Wignall left us in the bottom 3 of the division. Tilly has got us 4th.  Tilly took this club to its first ever Cup Final, and beat the Scum en route.  And then, for good measure, beat the Scum again this season.

But he's... OK?  Missing a spark?

Heck, I'm going to stick my neck out... and say - sorry, you're wrong.  Not "it's a difference of opinion".  But that, on any objective basis, you are plainly and simply wrong.

Where have you been for the last 6 or 7 years... as this club has stuttered in the bottom flight under Wignall, Newman, Webb's third stint, Alan Little, the Chipmunk?

If you can't appreciate the fact that Tilly & Brush have turned round a failing club into one that now operates at a profit (absent pre-existing debt issues), one that now has an average gate of 5,154 - its highest in the best part of a decade - and one that is now sitting 4th in the league, then I genuinely think that there's something wrong with you.

I'm enjoying this whilst it lasts.  It's a shame that you appear not to be able to appreciate the remarkable things that seem to me to be plainly happening at Roots Hall right now.

Matt

Matt, I think you need to get sense of perspective.

Like you I have suffered the likes of Wignall and Newman et al. Tilly is streets above this motly crew. But there again so are many.

The thread here was our greatest manager. In my opinion, and it's only an opinion, Smiffy wins hands down. Tilly has been great for the club, but a) its still early days (eg. Smiffy had a long track record), and b) we are still only 4th after all in League Two which is hardly setting the world alight. True, resources, club circumstances etc can all be sighted as reasons why we are not doing even better than we are, but personally I think 'OK' is a fair rating for what's been done so far. Our average crowds are ok, but in the current climate they will become much better when we start to consistently get closer to the top of the league's basement table.

Tilly appears at least to me to be a 'quiet man' - now't wrong with that, but I can't YET see any spark (I don't by that mean Judas up and down the touchline lunacy) to really drive the team to the heights Smiffy (and dare I saw Webby did). By saying this it does not mean that I do not appreciate what is going on at the mo, I have seen many lows (but many highs too) over the last 34 years to recognise that. I think you are just missing the point in what I was saying, which is that, and back to the thread we are writing under here, Tilly is not the best manager I have seen at Roots Hall so far, Smiffy was. Were I judging things over the last seven years (or even a bit more) then Tilly is of course more than 'OK' in comparison (but so would our family moggy be).

Have not attempted here to answer all your points, just I think the main one. I respect your opinion, and I hope you too mine if having now seen this explanation of my previous brief one-liner. At the end of the day we both want the same thing, namely better days at Roots Hall - Tilly does not have to win the Premier$hite to prove in the end that he will be more than 'OK' in Southend's near 100 year history, just to give us some consistent good football and some success commensurate with the size of club we are.

Anyway, Up the Blues!

PS: Am not Suffolk Blue, I'm sure that Andy has his own views on the matter which may well be different from us both!

 

[Banksy]

Tilly may well leave (ultyimately) if the Board do not get their act together. He is SUFC through and through and like us all he wants the best for this club. However, you can't blame him if, as most managers say " I feel I have taken this club as far as I can " (having already been tapped up). Mind you he's a long way off from that kind of statement - still learning. He will get us promotion this year but next year we will need better players to take us a stage further but that costs and you can't turn mediocre players into world beaters let alone Div. 1 winners ! Stick with him.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (Banksy @ Jan. 21 2005,09:18)]Tilly may well leave (ultyimately) if the Board do not get their act together. He is SUFC through and through and like us all he wants the best for this club. However, you can't blame him if, as most managers say " I feel I have taken this club as far as I can " (having already been tapped up).  Mind you he's a long way off from that kind of statement - still learning. He will get us promotion this year but next year we will need better players to take us a stage further but that costs and you can't turn mediocre players into world beaters let alone Div. 1 winners ! Stick with him.

Tapped up by who?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Suffolk Shrimper @ Jan. 20 2005,22:42)]I have seen many lows (but many highs too) over the last 34 years to recognise that. I think you are just missing the point in what I was saying, which is that, and back to the thread we are writing under here, Tilly is not the best manager I have seen at Roots Hall so far, Smiffy was. Were I judging things over the last seven years (or even a bit more) then Tilly is of course more than 'OK' in comparison (but so would our family moggy be).

Have not attempted here to answer all your points, just I think the main one. I respect your opinion, and I hope you too mine if having now seen this explanation of my previous brief one-liner.

Apologies for the Suffolk Blue / Suffolk Shrimper thing...

And yes, I do get your point - completely!

In a sense, it's all about one's reference point. I wasn't a Southend fan until 1990/91 - so whilst I can pick up the history books and listen to you guys about the 1980/81 season, and I can even feel a sense of that history (e.g. I went all coy and star-struck the first time I met Dave Cusack) - I cannot truly appreciate that time, because I didn't experience it for myself. So it's impossible for me to express an opinion of my own about Dave Smith's period of management - or indeed anyone's, prior to 1990.

In a sense, therefore, I'm drawing on a pretty limited pool of managers in terms of creating my own pecking order:

Webb (II)
Murphy
Fry
Taylor
Thompson
Whelan
Martin
Little
Gooding
Webb (III)
Newman
Robson
Wignall
Tilson

Given that list, you've got to admit, a pecking order is pretty easy to draw up:

1. Webb (II)
2. Tilson
3. Fry
4. Thompson
5. Little
6. Taylor

...and the rest are un-placed, frankly - not least because three of them (Martin, Whelan, Wignall) are slugging it out with Dick Bate for the title of our club's worst ever manager.

As for that pecking order, it kind of picks itself, in terms of achievement:

1. 2 promotions
2. A cup final, and lifting us from the bottom 4 to the top 4 of this league in little over a season.
3. Keeping us up and taking us to the top 3
4. Keeping us up in an incredible run
5. Keeping us in the league and resurrecting us post-Chipmunk
6. Not taking us down

However, of course I totally see that as someone who has supported this club for a lot longer than I have, you're going to have seen more, and have a wider choice of people against whom Tilly's achievements must be stacked.

And in that sense, you're lucky. Those who have supported this club since 1980 or before have experienced something that the rest of us haven't... and that's Southend lifting some silverware.

Here's hoping it happens again, sooner or later.

 

[Ron Manager]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Jan. 21 2005,10:05)]1. Webb (II)
2. Tilson
3. Fry
4. Thompson
5. Little
6. Taylor

...and the rest are un-placed, frankly - not least because three of them (Martin, Whelan, Wignall) are slugging it out with Dick Bate for the title of our club's worst ever manager.

Basing purely on footballing matters then Barry Fry would be ahead of Tilly in my list. Some of the football we played under him was as good if not better than anything I've seen from a Southend side.

I would also put Taylor in the un-placed category alongside Martin, Whelan and Wignall. He really was on a hiding to nothing taking over from Fry but he was as poor a manager as we've had at Roots Hall. He was only saved from really being demonised in the eyes of us fans because of his hero status for us as a player, and what he's achieved since leaving has also made many people forget exactly how woeful he was when in charge of us.

IMHO of course

 

[southend4ever]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Jan. 21 2005,08:54)]

Quote[/b] (Banksy @ Jan. 21 2005,09:18)]Tilly may well leave (ultyimately) if the Board do not get their act together. He is SUFC through and through and like us all he wants the best for this club. However, you can't blame him if, as most managers say " I feel I have taken this club as far as I can " (having already been tapped up).  Mind you he's a long way off from that kind of statement - still learning. He will get us promotion this year but next year we will need better players to take us a stage further but that costs and you can't turn mediocre players into world beaters let alone Div. 1 winners ! Stick with him.

Tapped up by who?

play on words... we hope

 

[Guest]

Fav SUFC Manager: Dave Smith

We won the league you know!

Oh Happy Days

Oh and Fry is a clown & birmingham went down.

Birmingham a sleeping giant that he put in a coma.

Bruce Shrimpsteen

Born to Shrimp

 

[TrueBlue]

Still though I did like Alan Little he was just starting to get it right and he did bring in some half decent players!