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French presidential election 2017

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It's not getting much tv news coverage over here (well bbc & sky anyway from what i've seen). However, I have just seen on the news just now, (and noticed this thread) that one of the candidates has been placed under formal investigation.

Sadly Being un-informed about this, please forgive my ignorance, but a few genuine questions...
what are the implications for him (sounds like a scandal about money?), is he now suspended from the election race? and was he a front runner? or really doesn't make any difference to the elections?
 
mattitouk said:
It's not getting much tv news coverage over here (well bbc & sky anyway from what i've seen). However, I have just seen on the news just now, (and noticed this thread) that one of the candidates has been placed under formal investigation.

Sadly Being un-informed about this, please forgive my ignorance, but a few genuine questions...
what are the implications for him (sounds like a scandal about money?), is he now suspended from the election race? and was he a front runner? or really doesn't make any difference to the elections?
Click to expand...

Welcome to the thread mattitouk............where does one begin? :smile: In fact, if you trawl back in the thread many of the answers are there. However, if you can't face that, here's a brief synopsis.

Fillon was the surprise candidate to emerge as winner of the right-wing primary election.
A Thatcherite with a religious (catholic) streak.......against same sex marriage etc.
An early front runner with Le Pen, the two were expected to face off in the second round.
Then, a satirical and irreverend paper (Le Canard enchainé) dropped a bombshell
It claimed Fillon had 'employed' his wife Penelope (welsh) and even his kids on supposedly fictitious jobs with huge salaries.
Under pressure from some in his own party to stand down, he has refused.
Poll ratings have dropped dramatically and now would appear to indicate he's unlikely to make the second round.
Although under investigation he is still able to continue his campaign..........innocent until proved guilty.
If by chance (little chance) he was elected President, he would have immunity until the end of his term.
Yes, it has thrown the election up into the air with both the traditional right and left-wing candidates shooting themselves both in the foot..........leaving centrist Macron as the likely candidate to face Le Pen in the second round.
 
Thanks Yogi, well it seems it's all going on over the other end of the channel!.. Iv'e been trying to swat up a bit on this topic, it seems politics is never dull and always corrupt no matter what country we live in.

So just to clarify, am i correct in thinking that there are 5 main political parties that start in the 1st round and then its narrowed down to just 2 parties in the second (and final) round for voters to choose from?
 
mattitouk said:
Thanks Yogi, well it seems it's all going on over the other end of the channel!.. Iv'e been trying to swat up a bit on this topic, it seems politics is never dull and always corrupt no matter what country we live in.

So just to clarify, am i correct in thinking that there are 5 main political parties that start in the 1st round and then its narrowed down to just 2 parties in the second (and final) round for voters to choose from?
Click to expand...

As it's a Présidential race it's probably better to consider that there are eleven candidates, rather than political parties. Five of those have rather more following than the other six. Hamon (socialist, but much more left-wing than Hollande), Mélenchon (socialist, a Corbyn with lots of charisma!), Fillon (conservative, thatcherite) under investigation for fraud, Le Pen (front national, extreme right-wing), Macron (centre, was a socialist minister under Hollande.....but never elected) now has formed his own party 'en marche' which claims to be neither left nor right. Yes, there will be only two candidates in the second round, on the Sunday following the first-round.
 
Last night the first TV debate, (endurance trial???..........three and a half hours!.....don't know whether it was harder for the candidates or the viewing public), involving just the main five candidates. A poll by bfmtv showed Macron as the winner but in their journalist's view he was a little disappointing. The other winner was generally assumed to be Mélenchon, who came over as really relaxed and witty Le Pen made her points in the way she always does, she will have delighted her supporters but will she have attracted any new voters? Macron did the essential and didn't mess up, a little diffident and stilted at the start, he eventually grew into the debate. Fillon tried to look Presidential but was rather withdrawn and gave the impression he would have prefered to have been elsewhere.
 
Whoever, whomever?, wins is not as relevant as to how much support and ultimate power they will have. France is not traditionally a country that sanctions sweeping change and I believe it is unlikely this will alter. At the end of the day, as in the UK and USA, it is about selecting the best of a bad bunch and unlikely to bring about the emergence of a national hero that will bring about benefits for all. They are much of a muchness.
 
onceknownasrab said:
Whoever, whomever?, wins is not as relevant as to how much support and ultimate power they will have. France is not traditionally a country that sanctions sweeping change and I believe it is unlikely this will alter. At the end of the day, as in the UK and USA, it is about selecting the best of a bad bunch and unlikely to bring about the emergence of a national hero that will bring about benefits for all. They are much of a muchness.
Click to expand...

You may well be right but if Macron wins, (as seems likely), we'll be in new territory, as he doesn't have a recognised political party supporting him in the French Assembly.Not until legislative elections in June anyway.
 
Tangled up in Blue said:
You may well be right but if Macron wins, (as seems likely), we'll be in new territory, as he doesn't have a recognised political party supporting him in the French Assembly.Not until legislative elections in June anyway.
Click to expand...

Which suggests more of the same as opposed to any likely changes. Change needs support.
 
onceknownasrab said:
Whoever, whomever?, wins is not as relevant as to how much support and ultimate power they will have. France is not traditionally a country that sanctions sweeping change and I believe it is unlikely this will alter. At the end of the day, as in the UK and USA, it is about selecting the best of a bad bunch and unlikely to bring about the emergence of a national hero that will bring about benefits for all. They are much of a muchness.
Click to expand...

Where do I start? As in the UK I think France spent the 20th Century changing between traditional left and right-wing governments. Certainly, since the crash and the onset of austerity, the situation has begun to get far more volatile. Brexit was probably the first electoral manifestation of it in a major power. This was swiftly followed by the election of Trump, which I'd hardly term as selecting the 'best of a bad bunch!' Now the situation in France looks as though it is going to be groundbreaking, whoever wins. The traditional Conservative candidate (and the Presidency was there for the taking, given the unpopularity of Hollande) is mired, with his Welsh wife, in a fraud scandal and very unlikely to show in the second-round. The left is a tragedy in itself, as Barna will probably concur. There are TWO Corbyn like candidates........one with charisma, one without. The officially elected socialist candidate is the latter. The irony of Mélenchon's position is probably not lost on Barna. He doesn't want to stand down (with combined scores they could possibly make the second-round) Barna won't agree but for Mélenchon, he is on an ego trip which seems to infer that Mélenchon is more important than socialism. The irony of all this is that if he had not had a strop and left the socialist party a number of years ago, I am certain he would now be the sole and official candidate for the left in 2017, with an outside chance of winning.
That looks as if we will be left with Macron and Le Pen to choose from, neither have the numbers in the assembly to form a government, the same colour as whichever President is elected. Macron is the nearest thing to a Liberal Democrat you can get in France and he may be more able to persuade more easily, both left and right wing members to join him. Le Pen (she doesn't like being called that anymore) would probably have greater difficulty rallying support. (Did you see the Panorama programme on her and her party last night on BBC1?
Anyway, much of a muchness and status quo is not how I would describe French politics at the moment. Change is certainly coming but what the hell it will be, GOD ONLY KNOWS! :smile:
 
yogi bear up the cagire said:
Where do I start? As in the UK I think France spent the 20th Century changing between traditional left and right-wing governments. Certainly, since the crash and the onset of austerity, the situation has begun to get far more volatile. Brexit was probably the first electoral manifestation of it in a major power. This was swiftly followed by the election of Trump, which I'd hardly term as selecting the 'best of a bad bunch!' Now the situation in France looks as though it is going to be groundbreaking, whoever wins. The traditional Conservative candidate (and the Presidency was there for the taking, given the unpopularity of Hollande) is mired, with his Welsh wife, in a fraud scandal and very unlikely to show in the second-round. The left is a tragedy in itself, as Barna will probably concur. There are TWO Corbyn like candidates........one with charisma, one without. The officially elected socialist candidate is the latter. The irony of Mélenchon's position is probably not lost on Barna. He doesn't want to stand down (with combined scores they could possibly make the second-round) Barna won't agree but for Mélenchon, he is on an ego trip which seems to infer that Mélenchon is more important than socialism. The irony of all this is that if he had not had a strop and left the socialist party a number of years ago, I am certain he would now be the sole and official candidate for the left in 2017, with an outside chance of winning.
That looks as if we will be left with Macron and Le Pen to choose from, neither have the numbers in the assembly to form a government, the same colour as whichever President is elected. Macron is the nearest thing to a Liberal Democrat you can get in France and he may be more able to persuade more easily, both left and right wing members to join him. Le Pen (she doesn't like being called that anymore) would probably have greater difficulty rallying support. (Did you see the Panorama programme on her and her party last night on BBC1?
Anyway, much of a muchness and status quo is not how I would describe French politics at the moment. Change is certainly coming but what the hell it will be, GOD ONLY KNOWS! :smile:
Click to expand...

Aye I did see the Beeb programme on Le Pen. In all fairness I thought it portrayed her in the same light as I regard all ambitious politicians. I was not left with the feeling that she is any worse than the other candidates and certainly no better.

I still feel that change is not a given. In the UK we elect Governments and then just bleat about them because radical, beneficial change is never forthcoming. Trump has got in and has his hands tied because he does not have the support to deliver his pledges/wish list. Macron and Le Pen, either or, will for me be much in the same boat. They will spend huge amounts of time trying to court the support they need and end up in a constant state of compromise.

Over the decades I have heard about potential melt downs and armageddon if such and such gets in. In reality little or no change is ever perceived. Sometimes the quid in our pocket is a bit lonely and other times a boom makes us all feel like Rockerfeller. We will always have our brave troops sent to fare flung regions and fighting for causes most of us cannot relate to. We will always have the opposition telling us how good they are and how bad the ruling party is.
 
My wife has just told me she wants to make a pact with our younger daughter.She'll agree to vote for Meléchon in the first round if S.will vote for Macron in the second, rather than abstain.

Sounds like a win-win family compromise to me.:thumbsup:
 
Tangled up in Blue said:
My wife has just told me she wants to make a pact with our younger daughter.She'll agree to vote for Meléchon in the first round if S.will vote for Macron in the second, rather than abstain.

Sounds like a win-win family compromise to me.:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

So long as all of those voting Mélenchon in the first round don't allow Fillon to creep through, instead of Macron, to face Le Pen in the second!
 
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