Post-Match Thread and Ratings Halifax Town 0-0 Southend United

[Jai]

We've gone to two teams that got into the playoffs and only conceded one goal! There were a number of fans on here saying how awful our defense is and how inept we look at the back. Well that looks rather solid to me. That's one huge positive!

Yes, of course we need to improve up top. I don't think anyone thinks contrary to that. However, what do we expect right now? We had a 16/17 year old striker on the bench and a striker playing 2 leagues below up front. Are we seriously expecting better right now?

Yes it is totally needed to get a player in but the reality is, we have 3 senior strikers on the books that are all injured. We are still paying them, two of which I would gauge handsomely. We don't have unlimited funds and it's not as easy as we'd like. Therefore, I think we are doing well under the circumstances.

Well said. I think we're looking at loans, and we may have to wait until the EFL deadline draws closer and clubs higher than us in the pecking order decide who they can let out.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

My problem is that I have memories of Phil Brown sending out teams with a back 5 in order to bring a losing run to an end (e.g. away at Peterborough). It's difficult to win games like that.

Now we have "3 at the back and two wing backs". There is a difference people say.

My ar£e says I.

 

[sufc4life21]

I'm gobsmacked that some are pleased with 2 points in 3 games at non league level. I know there's no need to panic as it's way too early in the season but you can't dress it up with context to say that is good! Every team will have injuries.

Drawing against a side who lost half their team from last season and judging their 2 previous results (admittedly it's still early) halifax look a poor side this season. 2 points dropped in my opinion.

 

[WestyReturns]

This attitude that we're only non-league temporarily is going to have to change.

Bury, Blackpool and Preston were regular FA Cup and League winners. Those days are gone, like our Football League days are gone. Football is cruel and particularly cruel to those with bad owners. Most teams who come down to this level only bounce back because they shake off their bad owners. We won't be doing that any time soon.

We are non-league now and we will be non-league for the foreseeable future. We will tell our kids stories about our football league days, but they have gone.

We have to accept where we are and given the embargoes, financial issues (accounts two years overdue now), we will be here to stay. Stockport were down here 10 years and only got out when they were taken over by multi millionnaires. Wrexham have millions of pounds in sponsorship due to their big time owners and they have had a relatively indifferent start and failed to get up last year. 15 years for them, a bigger club than us.

We're non-league. We could well be non-league for decades. Those old days where we used to play in the Football League are memories unless we get a new owner.

In the meantime, we have to enjoy the wins when they come, enjoy the odd flirt with the playoffs and hope to build a team to be proud of. We're on our way to that.

If its your opinion to accept failure good for you, suppose it won't hurt you as much, however I will never ever think that's fine and acceptable.

 

[WhiteNoise]

Quick journey home.

MOTM Hobson or Arnold.

Arnold made plenty of saves, really head a shoulders above the standard of Oxley. It's truly shocking how long Oxley stayed, and how much he got paid.

Hobson continues to show that when he is on form, he is superb.

Miley looks great as well, Crowhurst doesn't look out of place considering he is young.

Lomas and Kensdale are superb together (with Hobson).

First half was a lot of us, second half was a lot of Halifax. But they were poor, and will be nowhere near play offs this season.

I think we've got to settle for boring, frustrating games until the EFL transfer window closes (as KM has said multiple times). Then we can dip into the market to loan an attacking mid and an out and out striker. By the way, Dalby would not have solved the issue in tonight's match.

The more clean sheets we can get, and boost the confidence of our defenders, the further we will go when the attack gains confidence.

PS, take Powell of penalties. Give them to Ralph, Miley or someone who has more composure.

Agree with this 100%

 

[Jai]

My problem is that I have memories of Phil Brown sending out teams with a back 5 in order to bring a losing run to an end (e.g. away at Peterborough). It's difficult to win games like that.

Now we have "3 at the back and two wing backs". There is a difference people say.

My ar£e says I.

There's a difference, but of course as much depends on how the opposition play and what you have to do to stop them, especially away from home. I remember that Peterborough game, as ugly as it was. It was ultra defensive football intent on drawing 0-0. We don't play like that now. We look to bring one or more of the centre halves out to break the lines and play. Hobson against Boreham Wood played more like a deep lying playmaker in the second half. It's a style that is increasing in merit since Sheffield United did it a few years ago and it makes sense because your positions don't mean as much any more, which keeps opponents guessing.

The days of rigid formations are over, if you're a centre half in a back 3 like we play, you are expected to bring the ball out and break the lines, beat the press and bring others into play. The players we have signed are deliberately signed for their ability to pick a pass. They need to be able to defend of course, but it's no longer good enough to be a clogger who just heads, tackles and whacks the ball into row Z.

Formations mean very little any more. It's the way players interact with each other on the pitch and understand where their team mates are going to be.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Kensdale deserves praise for his handling of Dieseruvwe. There can't be many tougher individual strikers to come up against in this league.

True, the back 3 looked good and a unit, I think that caused the Halifax change as much as anything else, all 3 won any ball into box and more.
Again, the midfield needed a leader and a driver.
Lots of work and I am sure the figures will show that.

 

[Shrimperjohn]

Disappointing to drop points when you miss a penalty, but from listening to the wireless, sounds like a fair result. We are a long way from being a playoff team until we get the walking wounded back on the park.

Wireless! Love it..

 

[southendkid]

I'm gobsmacked that some are pleased with 2 points in 3 games at non league level. I know there's no need to panic as it's way too early in the season but you can't dress it up with context to say that is good! Every team will have injuries.

I don't know why some fans seem to think non-league is beneath us, we're here on merit and you don't go from being godawful to great overnight. I'm hopeful that the 3 amigos will turn us into a promotion chasing team but that's a long term project, not something that can be achieved immediately.

 

[Jai]

If its your opinion to accept failure good for you, suppose it won't hurt you as much, however I will never ever think that's fine and acceptable.

I don't like it any more than you do. But the problem is foisting unrealistic expectations on a manager whose hands will always be tied will just result in the same downward spiral we have had over the past few years.

Maher and his team are doing a terrific job in adversity that should be recognised. I don't see it as failure that he has taken us from National League South favourites to a side that could challenge for the playoffs inside 10 months.

But if you think we should be shoo-ins for promotion any time soon, I'm afraid you're going to find out the hard way.

 

[WhiteNoise]

Frustrating that we’re so short up top because Halifax were there for the taking. They only created chances because we had no outlet or ability to keep the ball up top. Wreh and Powell don’t really look at the level required, sadly. I was impressed with Miley and it was good to see Ralph back and getting up and down the wing

I worry that we’ll only see what this squad is capable of later in the season and by then it’ll be too late.
Didn’t think powell’s pen was too bad, just at a comfortable height for the keeper who guessed correctly.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

Agreed. The goalkeeper guessed correctly and made a good save.

I'm still possed off that we didn't score though.

 

[Jai]

Frustrating that we’re so short up top because Halifax were there for the taking. They only created chances because we had no outlet or ability to keep the ball up top. Wreh and Powell don’t really look at the level required, sadly. I was impressed with Miley and it was good to see Ralph back and getting up and down the wing

I worry that we’ll only see what this squad is capable of later in the season and by then it’ll be too late.
Didn’t think powell’s pen was too bad, just at a comfortable height for the keeper who guessed correctly.

Wrexham fans apparently calling for Parkinson's head tonight. If you think our fans are overreacting... Wrexham have had an indifferent start but will win this league comfortably. They have the resources and the advantage of no transfer deadlines - they will simply buy their way out whenever they get injury issues or whatever (I note no Harry Lennon in their side tonight). Not an option for us, so when we have 3 well-paid strikers out, we have to suck it up.

 

[bazzashrimper]

So you think Liverpool will go down, interesting.

And Man Utd to finish bottom.

Ok. Maybe that bit will happen

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Ralph was my man of match tonight, as a player, BUT he is not an driver or on field captain, he sets a good example with his play etc BUT more is needed from a captain when things are under stress.

 

[Jai]

And Man Utd to finish bottom.

Ok. Maybe that bit will happen

Maidenhead and Wealdstone to battle it out in the NL playoff final and Barnet with the autos to the FL.

I don't think.

 

[Sleaford Shrimper]

Ralph was my man of match tonight, as a player, BUT he is not an driver or on field captain, he sets a good example with his play etc BUT more is needed from a captain when things are under stress.

I wasn't at the match so can't comment on Ralph's performance as captain. However, I totally agree with you that the best team captains have a natural, difficult-to-quantify "presence" on the field of play that galvanises and brings out the best in their team mates. How we could do with a new Adam Barratt right now!

 

[Jai]

I wasn't at the match so can't comment on Ralph's performance as captain. However, I totally agree with you that the best team captains have a natural, difficult-to-quantify "presence" on the field of play that galvanises and brings out the best in their team mates. How we could do with a new Adam Barratt right now!

We're two players short of a very decent side. That mean ******* at centre half that wins everything and bullies strikers week in, week out, and the focal-point striker that brings the team out and also has defenders worried with their movement.

 

[bluethroughandthrough]

There's a difference, but of course as much depends on how the opposition play and what you have to do to stop them, especially away from home. I remember that Peterborough game, as ugly as it was. It was ultra defensive football intent on drawing 0-0. We don't play like that now. We look to bring one or more of the centre halves out to break the lines and play. Hobson against Boreham Wood played more like a deep lying playmaker in the second half. It's a style that is increasing in merit since Sheffield United did it a few years ago and it makes sense because your positions don't mean as much any more, which keeps opponents guessing.

The days of rigid formations are over, if you're a centre half in a back 3 like we play, you are expected to bring the ball out and break the lines, beat the press and bring others into play. The players we have signed are deliberately signed for their ability to pick a pass. They need to be able to defend of course, but it's no longer good enough to be a clogger who just heads, tackles and whacks the ball into row Z.

Formations mean very little any more. It's the way players interact with each other on the pitch and understand where their team mates are going to be.

Agree and disagree. Formations are still important based on where a player plays. If you have a 5 at the back irrespective of whether you ask them to bring the ball out, fundamentally they are still positioned further back on the pitch and 5 are defenders.

The idea that a defender brings the ball out Reminds me of when hoddle used a sweeper in the back 5 who was a midfielder. He started this trend but that capability was rare
.
Last night it was clear. If you have 5 at the back, and 5 defenders they are naturally going to move backwards which means less focus on 1) engaging the midfield and 2) therefore getting the ball to the forwards. All of which we are struggling with. Note how strong our defensive unit is which is why brown used to send 5 out to not lose.

If we continue down this path, a new striker or the return of the injured will not be the panacea. We won't start scoring goals because you still need to get the ball to them and with space.

We won't be relegated but we won't be taking the division by storm. Expect lots of 1-0s and 0-0s in either direction.

There has to be a balance. 433 4231 ie 4 defenders not 5 have the best balance to negate the 532s 343s by taking more control of midfield ie the ability to move back or forward - but removing a striker in a pair and relying on wingers to be the second striker depending on the side of the pitch the ball is being played

a final comment on the opposition- whilst the teams we've played finished well last year that doesn't mean the same again this season in non league. Unless your Wrexham or perhaps chesterfield every season changes because of the turn over of players so not a fair judgement I think at this stage of performance either way.

 

[sufc4life21]

Are we still “tit arsing around”?

We chased Rutherford hard, we chased Kelly even harder. We’ve seen a couple of other bids rejected. We’ve had striker trialists in. We’ve had loan strikers choose elsewhere. We’ve had loan strikers we’ve turned down due to the deal from the parent clubs. We’ve had loan strikers we’ve turned down as deemed not good enough, not the right profiles, not the right type, not the right “fit”.

If we wanted any striker, we could easily bring someone in on loan tomorrow. Whether they would be good enough is another question.

As I mentioned earlier, this can change at any minute between now and the end of the transfer window in March.

Being in the National League does mean players/Clubs do hold out for EFL moves, however, when we were League Two, we had players hold out for League One/Championship and when we were League One, we had players hold out for Championship.

Chased but not signed..... well that's great isn't it. We were 4th lowest scores last season and we have had all summer to sign proven striker at this level and we have failed. Personally I feel that isn't good enough! Southend are still a mess of club unfortunately, this club will not move forward until the owner is gone! That's fact I'm afraid. Missing out on Kelly to sulihull showed me where Southend are in today game, A poor club who can't compete at the top end of the national league. Kev and co probably trying their best but they are handicapped by the clown at the top.