How stupid do we want to appear?

[fbm]

Let's see.

We're struggling in the league - in no small way due to injuries and suspensions at key times.

But we are mainly playing teams that have proven pedigree and quality.

Yes, we're on a bad run and may well get a club record of successive games without a win.

But we also have reached the Q/F of the league cup (a positive record) and have achieved national recognition for beating Man Utd.

We are not being outplayed, thrashed or dominated (with a couple of exceptions)

But we are low on confidence and that plays a huge part. Performances generally are not too bad - it's the results that are.

Now is not the time to push the panic button. Those calling for a change in management need a reality check. It may well be that Tilly and Brush have taken the club as far as they can, but we don't know that yet. I said earlier in the season that I hoped Tilly wouldn't jump ship when we were on the first bad run under his leadership. I therefore trust that RM isn't going to get rid just yet for the same reason.

We need to work together on this and a touch of solidarity is what's needed. We are probably already perceived as an easy-ish game in the Championship - probably the only one for many teams. But we have one of the countries hottest talents in Freddy and one of the most respected and talented young managers in the land who has won "Manager of the Year" in leagues 1 and 2 over the last 2 seasons. Disposing of Tilly would make us a laughing stock, especially when you consider some of the chumps that are out there already. What manager would come here? Answer - one who was either unproven or who had already been sacked from somewhere else.

For Gods sake get real. We ARE probably punching above our weight at the moment but all is not lost. Granted, it's not looking good and we have a mountain to climb, but teamwork and hard work gives us the best chance of getting out of it, not panic and change.

My solution?

Sell Freddy early in January for as much as possible.

Bring in 2/3 championship quality players including a goalscoring midfielder.

Get behind the team at EVERY opportunity.

Pray.

But we do NOT need a change in management. That really is stupid.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Quality post.

Quite agree with selling Fred, I think it's obvious he doesn't want to be here anymore.

 

[Shrimp in a Kilt]

*Breaks into second round of loud applause of the morning*

Well said fbm. But be warned, you make some people sick....

 

[southendstrett]

I agree with that.
I've always thought losing Tilly and Brush would be a greater blow than losing Fred.
Cash in on him and get the scouts out doing their job properly to get us some talent.

 

[J]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ Nov. 29 2006,08:10)]Now is not the time to push the panic button.  

you make me sick..

when shall we push the panic button? please tell me? as i would be interested to know, where all this time is coming from where we are going to rise from the ashes so to speak.. the way i look at it, we are running out of time... FAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[fbm]

Quote[/b] (CS J @ Nov. 29 2006,08:26)]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ Nov. 29 2006,08:10)]Now is not the time to push the panic button.  

you make me sick..

when shall we push the panic button? please tell me? as i would be interested to know, where all this time is coming from where we are going to rise from the ashes so to speak.. the way i look at it, we are running out of time... FAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The time to push the panic button is when we are near the bottom of league 2 and facing relegation to the conference.

And you make me laugh.

 

[C'mon you Blues]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ Nov. 29 2006,08:10)]Let's see.

My solution?

Sell Freddy early in January for as much as possible.

Bring in 2/3 championship quality players including a goalscoring midfielder.

Get behind the team at EVERY opportunity.

Pray.

But we do NOT need a change in management. That really is stupid.

I don't disagree and probably Tilson wouldn't but this is easier said than done. Who would npw come to us. If they are championship quality and in the lower leagues there will be competion and if i was their agrnt I couldn't recommend Southend at this point. I haven't seen freddy since the Plymouth game. He was OK but no more than that. If the spies in Varsity are to be believed a move is already a done deal and from reports he seems to be playing as though he does not need to impress anyone.

 

[Clarky_Blues]

I think it was clear from watching the game last night that the players are seriously lacking in confidence and I mean seriously.

I also think it is fair to say last night was a poor performance, although as stated on a previous thread we did have most of the possession in the 2nd half and yes it is clearly evident that we are lacking a creative player to unlock the opposing teams defence.  The amount of times we get about 30 yards from goal and hit a line of defence is crazy, there is only Freddy who can put in a decent run or a decent reverse pass.

One other thing I noticed last night was the amount of runs Freddy was making to open up the play and create space for Harrold, but Harrold did not seem to be on the same level as Freddy and never spotted the gaps, a number of times it was crying out for him but he was to far away from Freddy.

Thought McCormack was very good, certainly our best player by a long shot, Sodje had a good game as well. Spinners mistake, well you just don't expect it from a seasoned pro like him.  We gave the ball away very cheaply this evening, don't think I have seen a Southend team in a long time give the ball away so easily.

Was I right in spotting someone threw a shirt at Tilly and the players as they went down the tunnel at the final whistle?

 

[Somerset Ex-TTB]

I wasn't suggesting to get rid of Tilly and Brush, merely stating the fact that something has to change, and that I am sick and tired of Tilly's eccuses of bare bones blah blah, when the size of the squad is totally down to him.

I think last night we missed Gower more than we think.

 

[Pubey]

hear hear fbm! finally some sense!

 

[Rusty Lee]

People seem to be forgetting how we're playing at the moment.

We're tactilly very very poor. We defend like a park team. It doesnt matter what quality we have there are no excuses for not marking at corners. We arent doing the simple things right.

People also seem to forget what happened last time we was relegated, all this talk of coming but up, it wont happen, and the way the squad are preforming at the moment we would be a bottom half league 1 side. Which I am not ready to accept

 

[DTS]

Quote[/b] (Trust Treasurer Bloke @ Nov. 29 2006,09:00)]I wasn't suggesting to get rid of Tilly and Brush, merely stating the fact that something has to change, and that I am sick and tired of Tilly's eccuses of bare bones blah blah, when the size of the squad is totally down to him.

I think last night we missed Gower more than we think.

In fairness to Tilly has is given a budget by RM and has to work within that budget. I am sure he dosent choose to have a small squad - His budget dictates that.

 

[shrimper_sam]

Quote[/b] (Dave the Shrimper @ Nov. 29 2006,10:19)]

Quote[/b] (Trust Treasurer Bloke @ Nov. 29 2006,09:00)]I wasn't suggesting to get rid of Tilly and Brush, merely stating the fact that something has to change, and that I am sick and tired of Tilly's eccuses of bare bones blah blah, when the size of the squad is totally down to him.

I think last night we missed Gower more than we think.

In fairness to Tilly has is given a budget by RM and has to work within that budget. I am sure he dosent choose to have a small squad - His budget dictates that.

How do you know that for sure? - Also he has spent at least 500-000 + on players who are not suited to the league. We could have got a few more people on loan , maybe if Tilly had more contacts. Now its pure and simply - Tilson is a legend but he is punching above his own wieght here.

 

[fbm]

Quote[/b] (shrimper_sam @ Nov. 29 2006,10:36)]

Quote[/b] (Dave the Shrimper @ Nov. 29 2006,10:19)]

Quote[/b] (Trust Treasurer Bloke @ Nov. 29 2006,09:00)]I wasn't suggesting to get rid of Tilly and Brush, merely stating the fact that something has to change, and that I am sick and tired of Tilly's eccuses of bare bones blah blah, when the size of the squad is totally down to him.

I think last night we missed Gower more than we think.

In fairness to Tilly has is given a budget by RM and has to work within that budget. I am sure he dosent choose to have a small squad - His budget dictates that.

How do you know that for sure? - Also he has spent at least 500-000 + on players who are not suited to the league. We could have got a few more people on loan , maybe if Tilly had more contacts. Now its pure and simply - Tilson is a legend but he is punching above his own wieght here.  

Clarke and Paynter - how do you know they are not suited to the league?

They may have trouble in settling in the area.

Clarke, whilst having some poor games, has also put in a couple of MOM performances at the back.

Paynter is England U21 so must have something. I don't think he's currently suited to this team, but he may be perfectly good enough for this league. He may form a decent partnership with Harrold or Hooper... he hasn't had the chance yet.

Tilly is learning his trade and I do wonder about his network of contacts, but big contacts normally mean big players on big money and we can't support or sustain that.

We've been down that road before and it nearly killed the club - twice.

One problem is that we have a lot of new fans who are not used to seeing us lose. There seems to be a lack of patience with some people.

 

[shrimper_sam]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ Nov. 29 2006,10:45)]

Quote[/b] (shrimper_sam @ Nov. 29 2006,10:36)]

Quote[/b] (Dave the Shrimper @ Nov. 29 2006,10:19)]

Quote[/b] (Trust Treasurer Bloke @ Nov. 29 2006,09:00)]I wasn't suggesting to get rid of Tilly and Brush, merely stating the fact that something has to change, and that I am sick and tired of Tilly's eccuses of bare bones blah blah, when the size of the squad is totally down to him.

I think last night we missed Gower more than we think.

In fairness to Tilly has is given a budget by RM and has to work within that budget. I am sure he dosent choose to have a small squad - His budget dictates that.

How do you know that for sure? - Also he has spent at least 500-000 + on players who are not suited to the league. We could have got a few more people on loan , maybe if Tilly had more contacts. Now its pure and simply - Tilson is a legend but he is punching above his own wieght here.  

Clarke and Paynter - how do you know they are not suited to the league?

They may have trouble in settling in the area.

Clarke, whilst having some poor games, has also put in a couple of MOM performances at the back.

Paynter is England U21 so must have something.  I don't think he's currently suited to this team, but he may be perfectly good enough for this league.  He may form a decent partnership with Harrold or Hooper... he hasn't had the chance yet.

Tilly is learning his trade and I do wonder about his network of contacts, but big contacts normally mean big players on big money and we can't support or sustain that.

We've been down that road before and it nearly killed the club - twice.  

One problem is that we have a lot of new fans who are not used to seeing us lose.  There seems to be a lack of patience with some people.

How long before they have settled down because we are almost half way through the season and we can only seem to be able to get the odd point here or there. I agree with you aboutTilly and his contacts. Thats why i think we should have a director of football in to help Tilson out. Someone who can guild him and help him become an overall better manager( His a good manager ATM but with a bit of help i feel he could become great.)

But ATM he isn't doing the job, he doesn't like to make changes and i sometimes have to Q'n his passion. I know not many people don't like it when people say a bad word against the man, and i can understand that for what his achived. But we must now look to the future. otherwise we will just be taking 1 step forward and 2 back.

 

[J]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ Nov. 29 2006,08:28)]

Quote[/b] (CS J @ Nov. 29 2006,08:26)]

Quote[/b] (fbm @ Nov. 29 2006,08:10)]Now is not the time to push the panic button.

you make me sick..

when shall we push the panic button? please tell me? as i would be interested to know, where all this time is coming from where we are going to rise from the ashes so to speak.. the way i look at it, we are running out of time... FAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The time to push the panic button is when we are near the bottom of league 2 and facing relegation to the conference.

And you make me laugh.

the feeling is most certainly mutual..

so you don't mind seeing us relegated? your not panicking about the fact that if we get releagated we will lose key members of our squad?

 

[Jonny_Stokes]

Quote[/b] (shrimper_sam @ Nov. 29 2006,10:36)]Now its pure and simply - Tilson is a legend but he is punching above his own wieght here.  

Risible comment. The guy is clearly a good manager, he has just never managed at this level before. The only way he will become a better manager is if he gets the chance to manage at a level where he is challenged. He is being challenged because the squad is not good enough. The squad is not good enough because there has been insufficient funds to strengthen it to a standard where it is comparable to other squads in this division (500k is f%ck-all before you start). The infrastructure of the club both on and off the pitch is not currently ameanble to Championship football, and no manager is going to be able to effect a drastic turnaround.

So it leaves you with a choice:

1. sack your young, highly-rated manager, bring someone else in, cause upheaval and still probably get relegated.

or

2. Don't sack your young, highly-rated manager, keep some continuity at the club (the only proven long-term solution to an ailing side*) and probably get relegated but give yourselves the best chance of bouncing straight back.


J_S


*Ailing side? Ailing club? How many other clubs do you know with two promotions in two years and a new state-of-the-art stadium on the way?

 

[DTS]

Quote[/b] (shrimper_sam @ Nov. 29 2006,10:36)]

Quote[/b] (Dave the Shrimper @ Nov. 29 2006,10:19)]

Quote[/b] (Trust Treasurer Bloke @ Nov. 29 2006,09:00)]I wasn't suggesting to get rid of Tilly and Brush, merely stating the fact that something has to change, and that I am sick and tired of Tilly's eccuses of bare bones blah blah, when the size of the squad is totally down to him.

I think last night we missed Gower more than we think.

In fairness to Tilly has is given a budget by RM and has to work within that budget. I am sure he dosent choose to have a small squad - His budget dictates that.

How do you know that for sure? - Also he has spent at least 500-000 + on players who are not suited to the league. We could have got a few more people on loan , maybe if Tilly had more contacts. Now its pure and simply - Tilson is a legend but he is punching above his own wieght here.  

Yes your quite right...He has no contacts....

If only he knew the right people we could look to get a real big name players in - Someone like Micheal Ricketts.

 

[DTS]

Quote[/b] (Jonny_Stokes @ Nov. 29 2006,11:21)]

Quote[/b] (shrimper_sam @ Nov. 29 2006,10:36)]Now its pure and simply - Tilson is a legend but he is punching above his own wieght here.  

Risible comment. The guy is clearly a good manager, he has just never managed at this level before. The only way he will become a better manager is if he gets the chance to manage at a level where he is challenged. He is being challenged because the squad is not good enough. The squad is not good enough because there has been insufficient funds to strengthen it to a standard where it is comparable to other squads in this division (500k is f%ck-all before you start). The infrastructure of the club both on and off the pitch is not currently ameanble to Championship football, and no manager is going to be able to effect a drastic turnaround.

So it leaves you with a choice:

1. sack your young, highly-rated manager, bring someone else in, cause upheaval and still probably get relegated.

or

2. Don't sack your young, highly-rated manager, keep some continuity at the club (the only proven long-term solution to an ailing side*) and probably get relegated but give yourselves the best chance of bouncing straight back.


J_S


*Ailing side? Ailing club? How many other clubs do you know with two promotions in two years and a new state-of-the-art stadium on the way?

Its takes an Orient fan to talk sense - What is this world coming too.....

 

[Jam_Man]

Quote[/b] (CS J @ Nov. 29 2006,11:11)]so you don't mind seeing us relegated? your not panicking about the fact that if we get releagated we will lose key members of our squad?

All of us will be disappointed to be relegated however when you weight up with what Tilly has achieved, and how difficult it was going to be to stay up then calling for him to leave and having the upheaval of getting someone else in isnt the answer.

If we get relegated we would lose key members ?

Theres so many posts on here saying how our players arent good enough for this level who are we actually worried about losing ?