If Tilly or Brush...

[BrettieAngell]

It's interesting that this undercurrent of discontent seems to be bubbling up again amongst a few on here.
Maybe just maybe these few sparks can ignite into a blazing protest against the actions of certain people?

I think that ship has well and truly sailed.

 

[Perth Bambi]

Well we could have stayed up and then released all the players and started again in league 1 with a steady budget. .

If we had made it to the end of the season that is.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

But do you not think that everyone at the Club wanted that? It's not like the Club chose not to pay players. It didn't have the money.

EDIT - clearly you don't think that, from reading the rest of your post. All I can say is that everything that has happened to the Club over the past eighteen months screams of a business operating without cash.

The money was there to pay the players. Ron had not paid the tax bills and then HRMC wanted them paid urgently so the money was then used for that. Surely this is woefull management? Excluding the tax bill we actually made a profit June 2009 - June 2010 (i have seen figures)

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

Agree to a certain degree with that, but lets not forget that last season we had players being publically shamed by our directors . Players not being paid by there employers and worse still assistants being sacked and being replaced by someone who was here all of 5 minutes before evaporating. We also sold our star player and the only thing that was knicking is the odd points for peanuts to a rival.

At what point given all of that did Ron martin see that as good business or atleast a viable option.

Had we kept brushy and Lee barnard till the end of the season and paid our staff then there is no way we would have been playing morcambe tomorrow or even contemplating a trip there anytime soon.

Ron Martin has never had the balls to acknowledge his failings and consistently palms his failures on to others. Its the players fault they should have taken his word that the money was coming. Its HRMC's fault for wanting the money and taking us to court. Its Tilly's fault to not be able to motivated players who have nothing apart from playing for a club that they are not afilaited with for free as motivation.

The fact that so many people just forgot what Ron had done and what tilly had done all because he brings in some journeyman manager and some very mediocre players over night with the exception of one or two talents.

Frankly i find our supporters lack of fight , back bone and short term memory disturbing.

So stay away if you want but some bentley driving lethario with hair as out of date as his grasp on reality is not stopping me support my club.

Ronald pay what you owe to two very honest and loyal servants to this club and atleast maybe 1% of my anger will be diluted.

Fantastic post

 

[EastStandBlue]

The money was there to pay the players. Ron had not paid the tax bills and then HRMC wanted them paid urgently so the money was then used for that. Surely this is woefull management? Excluding the tax bill we actually made a profit June 2009 - June 2010 (i have seen figures)

Considering that the HMRC were ready to bring the curtain down, I wouldn't say choosing to pay them rather than the players was woeful management... I see that as choosing between "Having a club of unhappy players, knowing that the PFA will foot the bill eventually," and "Having no club at all."

And this profit, was that before or after Sainsburys' many contributions?

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

Considering that the HMRC were ready to bring the curtain down, I wouldn't say choosing to pay them rather than the players was woeful management... I see that as choosing between "Having a club of unhappy players, knowing that the PFA will foot the bill eventually," and "Having no club at all."

And this profit, was that before or after Sainsburys' many contributions?

The point i was getting was that he gambled with the clubs existance by using the tax man as a free loan service of millions of pounds! I completely agree that it had to be paid in the end.

That was before Sainsburys contribution.

 

[Beefy]

The money was there to pay the players. Ron had not paid the tax bills and then HRMC wanted them paid urgently so the money was then used for that. Surely this is woefull management? Excluding the tax bill we actually made a profit June 2009 - June 2010 (i have seen figures)

Profit and cashflow are entirely different. It wouldn't surprise me if our bottom line performance last financial year was good relative to our previous couple of years, but profits and losses don't kill businesses - negative cashflow does.

SUFC didn't pay the tax bill, Sainsburys did (detailed in the Echo article about the 5m loan). Regardless of whether the funds were there and were ringfenced for tax or they weren't there at all, the fact remains that paying players simply wasn't a choice. It's Ron Martin's fault that we got in that position, and no one is disputing that, but having got in that mess short of buying a winning lottery ticket I'm not sure what else he could tangibly have done to get money from nowhere.

 

[Beefy]

The point i was getting was that he gambled with the clubs existance by using the tax man as a free loan service of millions of pounds! I completely agree that it had to be paid in the end.

That was before Sainsburys contribution.

As do a huge number of football clubs. It's not acceptable and I've argued in the past that Clubs who do it should be dealt with much more harshly than they are, but again it's not like we just couldn't be arsed to pay the taxbill, or thought that we'd earn some interest on the cash instead. Southend United Football Club Ltd doesn't generate enough cash to meet it's obligations. That's a fact of life. Therefore it, like any other business in it's position that is trying to stay alive, will get cash in as early as possible and pay it's bills as late as possible, or not at all.

 

[mfurok]

Whatever your belief or viewpoint, at least RC took the time to construct an eloquent, well-thought reply that detailed his opinion, rather than simply labelling someone "sad" for taking a view contrary to his own.

Try to read what I wrote and don't make false accusations.

The post was sad - not the sender.

 

[IloveShrimp]

What would Tilson have done if you wasn't paid by your boss or lost your job?? Didddly Squat I would guess.
Let him fight his own battles like you me and everyone else have to.

 

[bigmolt]

Agree to a certain degree with that, but lets not forget that last season we had players being publically shamed by our directors . Players not being paid by there employers and worse still assistants being sacked and being replaced by someone who was here all of 5 minutes before evaporating. We also sold our star player and the only thing that was knicking is the odd points for peanuts to a rival.

At what point given all of that did Ron martin see that as good business or atleast a viable option.

Had we kept brushy and Lee barnard till the end of the season and paid our staff then there is no way we would have been playing morcambe tomorrow or even contemplating a trip there anytime soon.

Ron Martin has never had the balls to acknowledge his failings and consistently palms his failures on to others. Its the players fault they should have taken his word that the money was coming. Its HRMC's fault for wanting the money and taking us to court. Its Tilly's fault to not be able to motivated players who have nothing apart from playing for a club that they are not afilaited with for free as motivation.

The fact that so many people just forgot what Ron had done and what tilly had done all because he brings in some journeyman manager and some very mediocre players over night with the exception of one or two talents.

Frankly i find our supporters lack of fight , back bone and short term memory disturbing.

So stay away if you want but some bentley driving lethario with hair as out of date as his grasp on reality is not stopping me support my club.

Ronald pay what you owe to two very honest and loyal servants to this club and atleast maybe 1% of my anger will be diluted.

Post of the season so far IMO.

 

[Mick]

Its just a shame that Rons ego is not the same size as his wallett . .

Yes agreed, but an even bigger shame that his wallet is not the size of his ego. Not that I think we'd see much of it, even if it were.

 

[Mick]

Considering that the HMRC were ready to bring the curtain down, I wouldn't say choosing to pay them rather than the players was woeful management... I see that as choosing between "Having a club of unhappy players, knowing that the PFA will foot the bill eventually," and "Having no club at all."

And this profit, was that before or after Sainsburys' many contributions?

That choice was not the woeful management (see, I'm agreeing with you here!); the woeful management came prior to that and led up to that choice.

 

[Mick]

.......

- That said, if you look at where we were last season, and you look at the position we're in now, with a squad of 20+ players OF OUR OWN and a manager who is, as I said, very experienced and very good, with bounding enthusiasm to take us forward, what good will come of ranting and raving at the chairman now?

.

This time last year, we'd just held Leeds (remember playing teams like that?), just about to beat Brighton away to go 52nd in the overall League structure. We had a 20+ goal a year striker and things weren't looking too bad.

Now, we're hoping we can put together a decent result against the 92nd club in the League.

I think there is one person to blame for this 12 month "improvement".

 

[ElstreeBlue]

As interesting as many of the same arguments previously made are again, can we bring this thread back to the original questions at the top of the thread?

I'm appalled at what's been done in the name of OUR club. It seems that there are some who are quite happy that such a loyal legend has been treated as he has been since he's no longer a part of the team. But I know there are many fans who feel similarly to me.

So, can we please return to the topic of this thread: if either Tilly or Brush still haven't been paid (and in the absence of a further statement clarifying things, we can only go on Tilly's and the last club statements on this issue), how does that make you feel? Do you care what's done in the name of OUR club? Do you feel annoyed or outraged? Would you want it sorted? Do you feel they have a right to a dignified exit and a right to be paid everything owing to them under their contracts so they can feed their families and move on with their lives? What can we as fans do to ensure this happens?

It's not about whether OUR club should move on or not and get behind a new manager. It's about doing the right thing by our previous management team. And if there is a legal fight going on with them, I'd hate to think how many hundred pounds an hour it may be costing OUR club in legal fees to fight this.

Shrimperzone is doing something special that I'm proud to be a part of with the gifts to Tilly and Brush by way of a thank you from us, the fans. But (if it's not yet sorted) I bet they'd far rather have their pay situation sorted by OUR club! After the Sainsbury's injection of money, what excuse can there be if they've not been paid, especially if we can afford to have one of the highest budgets in the division?

 

[BrettieAngell]

After the Sainsbury's injection of money, what excuse can there be if they've not been paid, especially if we can afford to have one of the highest budgets in the division?

Allegedly!!