If we don't become involved now then when do we?

[Jam_Man]

The West want a nice quiet middle east with easy oil.

The place is too messed up to solve and whatever we do will have consequences.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

As I understand it the Kurds wanted weapons from the West ,If true why not give them the arms required ?

Look at history especially when we become embroiled in the Middle East we and America solve nothing but make matters worse IMO .How long before one of the pilots are captured then paraded on TV or worse,Ground invasion becomes inevitable .

I think you're actually agreeing with me. We cannot turn our back on these people. I don't think they have an air force or can fly the planes. The idea is we halt the advance from the air and the Kurds go forward and mop them up. As you can tell I'm not a military man but that's my understanding. I just wiki'ed Kurdish air force (there isn't one) and Iraqi air force and it seems although there is one it's a complete shambles.

 

[mrsblue]

I think you're actually agreeing with me. We cannot turn our back on these people. I don't think they have an air force or can fly the planes. The idea is we halt the advance from the air and the Kurds go forward and mop them up. As you can tell I'm not a military man but that's my understanding. I just wiki'ed Kurdish air force (there isn't one) and Iraqi air force and it seems although there is one it's a complete shambles.

No I don't agree with respect !

Our brave personnel should IMO be nowhere near that region as far too many paid the ultimate for what exactly?,Let the ruling classes go into battle theirselves.

 

[Jam_Man]

No I don't agree with respect !

Our brave personnel should IMO be nowhere near that region as far too many paid the ultimate for what exactly?,Let the ruling classes go into battle theirselves.

So we should let an organisation like IS just take control of the whole region and with it all of the oil.

How do you think IS being in charge of the Middle East would pan out for us ?

There lies the issue, put the army in and like in Afghan/Iraq spend 10 years and thousands of lives to achieve very little, or do nothing and watch a dangerous organisatin gain power and become an even bigger risk.

Really cant win over there whatever we do.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So we should let an organisation like IS just take control of the whole region and with it all of the oil.

How do you think IS being in charge of the Middle East would pan out for us ?

There lies the issue, put the army in and like in Afghan/Iraq spend 10 years and thousands of lives to achieve very little, or do nothing and watch a dangerous organisatin gain power and become an even bigger risk.

Really cant win over there whatever we do.

Alll that nation building over the last thirteen years hasn't worked that well,has it?

 

[mrsblue]

So we should let an organisation like IS just take control of the whole region and with it all of the oil.

How do you think IS being in charge of the Middle East would pan out for us ?

There lies the issue, put the army in and like in Afghan/Iraq spend 10 years and thousands of lives to achieve very little, or do nothing and watch a dangerous organisatin gain power and become an even bigger risk.

Really cant win over there whatever we do.

None of us know the real story apart from government propaganda !

iS to gain power would need to overwhelm fairly powerful ME countries .

 

[Jam_Man]

Well they seem to be doing ok taking control of Syria and Iraq, they dont have to control every country to be a massive problem.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

Alll that nation building over the last thirteen years hasn't worked that well,has it?

Come on Barna. You want IS to continue with their genocide against the Yazidis and Kurds. Only the west can stop it. Should we stand idly by?

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Alll that nation building over the last thirteen years hasn't worked that well,has it?

If we had continued to build nations, rather than abdicating our responsibilities as a sop to Islamist apologists, IS would never have had a power vacuum to fill. The rise of Islamic State is directly attributable to the perceived weakness of the US under Obama, as is Putin's sabre rattling. You think these guys would have tried to pull this **** with Reagan in the White House?

 

[londonblue]

No I don't agree with respect !

Our brave personnel should IMO be nowhere near that region as far too many paid the ultimate for what exactly?,Let the ruling classes go into battle theirselves.

I don't either. George Galloway is a ******!

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Anybody got a list of those 23 Labour MP's (and others)who voted against the bombing?

Probably the same ones laughed and thought themselves so clever to vote against the government last time on Syria.
A widely held view is if the west had got involved in Syria when asked to then IS may never have been.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Probably the same ones laughed and thought themselves so clever to vote against the government last time on Syria.
A widely held view is if the west had got involved in Syria when asked to then IS may never have been.

And another widely held view is that there will be "mission creep" in Iraq.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

And another widely held view is that there will be "mission creep" in Iraq.

sorry but there is no Guardian link to this.

 

[mrsblue]

This morning John Nickol said "in the 80s the RAF trained Iraqi pilots to bomb targets who then killed thousands of civilians yet in the 90s we were shooting down those very same pilots"

Political awareness required.

 

[Jam_Man]

The West also assisted Osama Bin Laden to begin with.

Times change over decades.

 

[mrsblue]

The West also assisted Osama Bin Laden to begin with.

Times change over decades.

The West has assisted many of the so called tyrants then wish to kill them!

Recently read one of the best quotes IMO of all time with regards to Bin Laden.."we are led to believe a man living in a cave masterminded how to beat the world most protected country the USA" in reference to 9/11 attack.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

sorry but there is no Guardian link to this.

Sorry but you'll have to make do with this one (from CNN).


http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/19/opinion/zelizer-mission-creep/

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

ISIS (I think using their more recent choice of name shows them too much respect) are pure evil and I am shocked that they have become as powerful as they have. Due to the nature of their set up and the terain they operate from wiping them out is probably not possible but limiting them is something that should be done by any means necessary. Arab States and the West both recognise the need - methods are not clear cut though.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Here's someone who knows what he's talking about when it comes to "mission creep."

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/05/former-uk-armed-forces-chief-boots-on-ground-iraq

You cant bomb an idelogy out of existence.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Isn't this thread just a little off-topic?