Is Cameron running scared?

[Massimo Giovanni]

Two words, UNIVERSITY FEES.

Tell me about it! I have 2 daughters at Uni, one at St Andrews where she appears to be just about the only EU student paying full whack.
While that is very annoying, as is the failure to change boundaries and reduce the number of MPs; I re-iterate that I believe the financial inequalities are the BIGGEST danger to a cohesive United Kingdom.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I think the 1st one will and I think the tories will get the most seats. I'd be interested to know whether you think it would be right/just for a party who get the most seats not to take power because of a coalition of two other parties? I'm certainly not a tory but in my mind that wouldn't be right, I had great respect for the lib dems doing the right thing last time round when a coalition with labour would probably have been closer to their political ideals.

The Tories could certainly try and govern as the largest single party, if they get the most seats on 7th May.

However,Labour have made it quite clear that they will vote against a Tory Queen's Speech,as will (almost certainly)the SNP.

Personally,I don't have any problem with that, whatsoever.It's called democracy.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

The Tories could certainly try and govern as the largest single party, if they get the most seats on 7th May.

However,Labour have made it quite clear that they will vote against a Tory Queen's Speech,as will (almost certainly)the SNP.

Personally,I don't have any problem with that, whatsoever.It's called democracy.

It is what passes for democracy in this country. The current system is out dated and in desperate need of reform to some form of proportional system.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It is what passes for democracy in this country. The current system is out dated and in desperate need of reform to some form of proportional system.

Agreed,But the Lib/Dems failed miserably with their attempt to get AV on the statute book and I'd 've thought any move to bring in a full PR system is a long way off,unfortunately.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Agreed,But the Lib/Dems failed miserably with their attempt to get AV on the statute book and I'd 've thought any move to bring in a full PR system is a long way off,unfortunately.

Sadly I must agree, getting the reds or blues to agree to change is akin to turkeys voting for Christmas. Yet another example of how self interest by "parliamentarians" is keeping the status quo and fermenting discord while preaching for other nations to switch to "democracy".

 

[Pubey]

Tories playing some desperate games.

They criticise 100 independent doctors who wrote an open letter attacking the coalition's NHS policies. They accuse Labour of being behind this letter without any evidence. They then criticise all parties for using the NHS as a political football, before being caught doing this...

 

[Cricko]

The Tories are doing them themselves no favours with this constant dirty tricks campaign they are running.. Let's hope they take notice of that Aussie, Linton Crosby for another few weeks. :smile:

 

[Pubey]

The Tories are doing them themselves no favours with this constant dirty tricks campaign they are running.. Let's hope they take notice of that Aussie, Linton Crosby for another few weeks. :smile:

It's the continued hypocrisy that really stinks, especially when Cameron uses his (sadly) dead son as a political point to try and trump everything. Yes you've used the NHS, yes you know that the NHS is good, yes you've had a very sad and tragic personal experience - doesn't stop you from being a disgusting hypocrite who is as bad as everyone else (and maybe worse) when it comes to using the NHS as a central aspect of their campaign.

If they want to play dirty tricks, then ok, it's part of politics. But don't try to claim some moral high ground and then be a hypocrite.

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

It's the continued hypocrisy that really stinks, especially when Cameron uses his (sadly) dead son as a political point to try and trump everything. Yes you've used the NHS, yes you know that the NHS is good, yes you've had a very sad and tragic personal experience - doesn't stop you from being a disgusting hypocrite who is as bad as everyone else (and maybe worse) when it comes to using the NHS as a central aspect of their campaign.

If they want to play dirty tricks, then ok, it's part of politics. But don't try to claim some moral high ground and then be a hypocrite.

It wasn't Cameron who wanted to "weaponise" the NHS in this election....

 

[Pubey]

It wasn't Cameron who wanted to "weaponise" the NHS in this election....

No. Cameron wants people to stop 'weaponising the NHS' but then the leak above shows he's up to it, just like everyone else. Even worse, the hypocrisy is crystal clear when he's getting doctors to sign up for a Tory-drafted letter about "not using the NHS as a political football" - YCNMIU:hilarious:

Weaponising was clearly the wrong term - but people are very angry about what's happening to the NHS (and that includes torys and non-lefties). The NHS is hugely important to people and therefore the policies proposed by each party related to the NHS are going to be crucial when people come to vote. Cameron is trying to get people to avoid discussing the issue because he knows that their current policy doesn't have widespread support.

He then 'weaponises' his son as a kind of trump card to say, "Listen, I know from personal experience about the NHS", as a way to shut down debates. That's disgusting, and that's not even getting into the issue about the harm his policies have caused children and the families of children with severe disabilities.

Interesting timing for a "finally revealing interview":
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...reaking-point-strain-coping-disabled-son.html

 

[superblue24]

My wife works for the NHS and has said that things are better under the Tories than they ever were under Labour.

I had a leg injury a couple of years ago and my wait time for what is deemed a minor issue was only an hour. It was even less for an ear infection I had which left me in agony one Sunday afternoon and I went to one of the walk-in clinics. My Father-in-law was rushed to hospital just 5 months ago and had A* treatment....

The point is, will the NHS see dramatic improvement under a Labour government? I kind of recall that wait times have always been roughly the same for as long as I can remember. The service has been the same. In fact the only thing that has been an enormous annoyance....Not sure whos idea that was! :thumbdown:

With regards to "weaponising" of the NHS. In all honesty, I think Ed is to blame with that. After all, if he keeps banging on long enough about the same supposed issues, someone is going to listen eventually. That is the basis of all of his bluster. Keep repeating it and it will become an issue in peoples minds.....Same thing with this so-called cost of living crisis......Thanks for nowt (see below)

It's a bit unfair (and somewhat inappropriate) to accuse Cameron of "using" his son as some kind of political weapon. And your "Sadly" comment doesn't really make it OK. Cameron is totally justified in using his own real-life experiences as would be Miliband. I'm sure he'd rather have his son alive than dead and have a "trump card" as you put it.

 

[EastStandBlue]

My wife works for the NHS and has said that things are better under the Tories than they ever were under Labour.

Really? I've family and friends who work in various guises for the NHS, and all of them have said that things could not be much worse, and another five years of the strain will see it collapse.

But back to the main point, the Tory campaign certainly seems in a bit of chaos at the moment. There's underhanded tactics and personal attacks all over the shop and the message isn't consistent at all from top to bottom. You've got MPs being hauled in front of cameras who haven't been briefed properly, and even senior staff like Eric Pickles appearing to defend policies that he doesn't know how are being funded. And this is despite the Tories having still to release any concrete manifesto, something which is now weeks overdue. You've got media spokespeople saying its been delayed to give the press ample time to pour scorn over the Labour one, and then the next day Boris telling journalists it's been delayed because it wasn't good enough.

Miliband's certainly grown on me in recent weeks, but a stronger leader would've had this in the bag.

 

[Cricko]

The Daily Fail's headline today that Milliband actually had a life with ladies before he was married is quite laughable. That with the The Tories asking all members to knock Milliband at every opportunity....

That tactic was tried by Elizabeth Trust on Question time last night..Not only was Dimbleby getting frustrated, even some of the audience started laughing at her constant ignoring of questions to just try to jump on this ridiculous bandwagon.

 

[londonblue]

The point is, will the NHS see dramatic improvement under a Labour government? I kind of recall that wait times have always been roughly the same for as long as I can remember. The service has been the same. In fact the only thing that has been an enormous annoyance....Not sure whos idea that was! :thumbdown:

In that case your recollection is poor, and you must have spent the winter with your head in some very blue sand. When the tories took over they reduced the waiting times target from 98% of people being seen within 4 hours to 95% of people being seen within 4 hours. They presumably did that because they knew cost cutting would increase waiting times, and they would still be able to claim targets were being reached.

However, this past winter the NHS missed its new lower targets. Here's a BBC article for you:

BBC

Hospitals are meant to see 95% of patients in four hours, but during the 18 weeks since the start of November that has been missed every week.

NHS England has also admitted the 2014-15 average will be below the target - the first time this has happened for a whole year.

Here's another one:

BBC

The NHS in England has missed its four-hour A&E wait target for the past three months with performance dropping to its lowest level for a decade.

 

[Pubey]

My wife works for the NHS and has said that things are better under the Tories than they ever were under Labour.

And from my work I don't find that to be true. Also many of my friends and family work in the NHS and have found it to be a complete mess

I had a leg injury a couple of years ago and my wait time for what is deemed a minor issue was only an hour. It was even less for an ear infection I had which left me in agony one Sunday afternoon and I went to one of the walk-in clinics. My Father-in-law was rushed to hospital just 5 months ago and had A* treatment....

That's great. My personal experience as a user of the NHS has been really good as well. We've had A1 care for some really difficult issues involving my wife and child.

The point is, will the NHS see dramatic improvement under a Labour government? I kind of recall that wait times have always been roughly the same for as long as I can remember. The service has been the same. In fact the only thing that has been an enormous annoyance....Not sure whos idea that was! :thumbdown:

I'm not sure regarding labour. They introduced privitisation and some other really bad policies (I won't bore people with details). THis thread is about the Tories though.

With regards to "weaponising" of the NHS. In all honesty, I think Ed is to blame with that. After all, if he keeps banging on long enough about the same supposed issues, someone is going to listen eventually. That is the basis of all of his bluster. Keep repeating it and it will become an issue in peoples minds.....Same thing with this so-called cost of living crisis......Thanks for nowt (see below)

See my post above. 'Weaponsing' is a bad term and I said so. However why shouldn't people be discussing and debating the NHS as part of this election?! It's bonkers from Cameron to try and stop people from doing so, especially when he's doing it himself (Ivan, the leaked letter above etc).

It's a bit unfair (and somewhat inappropriate) to accuse Cameron of "using" his son as some kind of political weapon. And your "Sadly" comment doesn't really make it OK. Cameron is totally justified in using his own real-life experiences as would be Miliband. I'm sure he'd rather have his son alive than dead and have a "trump card" as you put it.

Why is it unfair or inappropriate? His personal situation is tragic and really sad. I'm not in any way trying to detract from that. He is perfectly justified to use his experience, as you say.

However, every time he mentions Ivan (which is a surprising amount, either explicitly or implied) he is mentioning it in a way to validate his policy or ideology about the NHS. He's basically saying "listen, I know what I'm doing here about the NHS because I've used the services myself". Many people can't come back at that, and Cameron knows that. The media definitely avoids challenging him on the NHS because of it. Sam Cam comes out with 'exclusive interviews' about Ivan just weeks before an election. Is he exploiting the situation? I'm not sure, but it's not unreasonable to be slightly cynical.

Just as an aside - Gordon Brown had a daughter who died, and a son with CF (which he didn't mention AT ALL until The Sun leaked it and Brown was devastated). At least Brown showed some scruples by completely avoiding any mention of his children in parliament or in the media.

 

[londonblue]

Really? I've family and friends who work in various guises for the NHS, and all of them have said that things could not be much worse, and another five years of the strain will see it collapse.

But back to the main point, the Tory campaign certainly seems in a bit of chaos at the moment. There's underhanded tactics and personal attacks all over the shop and the message isn't consistent at all from top to bottom. You've got MPs being hauled in front of cameras who haven't been briefed properly, and even senior staff like Eric Pickles appearing to defend policies that he doesn't know how are being funded. And this is despite the Tories having still to release any concrete manifesto, something which is now weeks overdue. You've got media spokespeople saying its been delayed to give the press ample time to pour scorn over the Labour one, and then the next day Boris telling journalists it's been delayed because it wasn't good enough.

Miliband's certainly grown on me in recent weeks, but a stronger leader would've had this in the bag.

Indeed. He was an embarrassment on the Daily Politics show today.

 

[Cricko]

I digress but,Southend Hospital was fined some ridiculous amount running into millions over a period of just 1 month for failing to reach their target.. It surely is not rocket science that if you cut staff, things will end up going wrong...Why or earth they fine them though is beyond me. How on earth does that help their budgets?

 

[superblue24]

In that case your recollection is poor, and you must have spent the winter with your head in some very blue sand. When the tories took over they reduced the waiting times target from 98% of people being seen within 4 hours to 95% of people being seen within 4 hours. They presumably did that because they knew cost cutting would increase waiting times, and they would still be able to claim targets were being reached.

OK, I'm wrong. You obviously have a better recollection of my own memories and the way I felt about the wait times in each of those visits. Why don't you tell me how my wedding was since you obviously know better than me. At the end of the day, I will vote based on MY experiences as I'm sure will everyone else.

However, this past winter the NHS missed its new lower targets. Here's a BBC article for you:

BBC

Here's another one:

BBC

This says maybe, but are we going to see a dramatic improvement under Labour? Are you telling me that between 2005 and 2010, I wouldn't have been able to pull out equally negative articles based on the NHS performance during that period? Shall I start looking now, or do you concede this point?

 

[superblue24]

And from my work I don't find that to be true. Also many of my friends and family work in the NHS and have found it to be a complete mess


That's great. My personal experience as a user of the NHS has been really good as well. We've had A1 care for some really difficult issues involving my wife and child.


I'm not sure regarding labour. They introduced privitisation and some other really bad policies (I won't bore people with details). THis thread is about the Tories though.


See my post above. 'Weaponsing' is a bad term and I said so. However why shouldn't people be discussing and debating the NHS as part of this election?! It's bonkers from Cameron to try and stop people from doing so, especially when he's doing it himself (Ivan, the leaked letter above etc).


Why is it unfair or inappropriate? His personal situation is tragic and really sad. I'm not in any way trying to detract from that. He is perfectly justified to use his experience, as you say.

However, every time he mentions Ivan (which is a surprising amount, either explicitly or implied) he is mentioning it in a way to validate his policy or ideology about the NHS. He's basically saying "listen, I know what I'm doing here about the NHS because I've used the services myself". Many people can't come back at that, and Cameron knows that. The media definitely avoids challenging him on the NHS because of it. Sam Cam comes out with 'exclusive interviews' about Ivan just weeks before an election. Is he exploiting the situation? I'm not sure, but it's not unreasonable to be slightly cynical.

Just as an aside - Gordon Brown had a daughter who died, and a son with CF (which he didn't mention AT ALL until The Sun leaked it and Brown was devastated). At least Brown showed some scruples by completely avoiding any mention of his children in parliament or in the media.

Good post, sir. Definitely a breath of fresh air to have someone produce lucid and clear points....unlike a few others who will remain unnamed. Can't really say that I disagree with much of what you have said here.

 

[Cricko]

This says maybe, but are we going to see a dramatic improvement under Labour?

Do you know I have no idea whether they will or not , but Kermit the Frog could do a better job atm..The NHS is on it's knees. I really don't care about the past as that is what is is PAST, all I really care about is how the problem gets solved from here on and the cuts that the Tories made in their last term decimated it at every point..This has to stop.