• Welcome to the ShrimperZone forums.
    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which only gives you limited access.

    Existing Users:.
    Please log-in using your existing username and password. If you have any problems, please see below.

    New Users:
    Join our free community now and gain access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and free. Click here to join.

    Fans from other clubs
    We welcome and appreciate supporters from other clubs who wish to engage in sensible discussion. Please feel free to join as above but understand that this is a moderated site and those who cannot play nicely will be quickly removed.

    Assistance Required
    For help with the registration process or accessing your account, please send a note using the Contact us link in the footer, please include your account name. We can then provide you with a new password and verification to get you on the site.

Is Cameron running scared?

OK, I'm wrong. You obviously have a better recollection of my own memories and the way I felt about the wait times in each of those visits. Why don't you tell me how my wedding was since you obviously know better than me. At the end of the day, I will vote based on MY experiences as I'm sure will everyone else.

You are being very selective. Look at the part of your post I quoted. In it you said:

The point is, will the NHS see dramatic improvement under a Labour government? I kind of recall that wait times have always been roughly the same for as long as I can remember. The service has been the same. In fact the only thing that has been an enormous annoyance....Not sure whos idea that was!

This was about your recollection of waiting times in general. It was not about your visits.

BTW: As far as you remember, your wedding was fantastic! (Or at least I hope it was.)



This says maybe, but are we going to see a dramatic improvement under Labour? Are you telling me that between 2005 and 2010, I wouldn't have been able to pull out equally negative articles based on the NHS performance during that period? Shall I start looking now, or do you concede this point?

Put it this way, the NHS has seen dramatic failure under the tories. If the tories can manage dramatic change for the worse I don't see why Labour can't do the opposite.
 
Do you know I have no idea whether they will or not , but Kermit the Frog could do a better job atm..The NHS is on it's knees. I really don't care about the past as that is what is is PAST, all I really care about is how the problem gets solved from here on and the cuts that the Tories made in their last term decimated it at every point..This has to stop.

To be frank, if Labour are able to reduce the cuts whilst continuing to reduce the deficit and debt, then I'm not going to be massively concerned about anything other than having Ed Miliband as PM. I just cannot warm to the guy in any way. That doesn't mean that Cameron is anything special either, but in terms of PM material, he is the best of a bad bunch imo.

We can't allow the countries finances to drift into the direction of Greece. If that happens, you'll be wishing we were back to how we were now. I'm in favour of cuts until we make it into the black, and then the economy will become less important to me as a voting issue.
 
Do you know I have no idea whether they will or not , but Kermit the Frog could do a better job atm..The NHS is on it's knees. I really don't care about the past as that is what is is PAST, all I really care about is how the problem gets solved from here on and the cuts that the Tories made in their last term decimated it at every point..This has to stop.

It's not just purely the cuts.

Privatisation of health services have NEVER shown the perceived benefits. Privatisation is an ideology that suggests that by introducing either competition and/or a profit incentive, you can provide a service at lower cost with equal or better performance.

That has never been shown in health, in real life or in any study or experiment. Take it to the extreme and you end up with the US, which is a vastly inefficient and wasteful health service. Also when you introduce personal profit, then you introduce dangerous incentives - like purposefully avoiding ill patients (expensive) who need care the most.

Can the NHS improve - absolutely. Is privatisation the way, not likely. I'm not against the ideology of privatisation if it was effective, but it's not. Why do the tories persist with a privatisation agenda? Self interest, most likely. Huge amounts of private money to be made on the back of these deals.

Why do we allow a government to persist with un-evidenced and harmful NHS policy? If a doctor turned up (lets say he was Indian-born, just to annoy Farage) and started giving random drugs to patients which killed them, then he's be struck off and locked up. However a government can come in, introduce dangerous and harmful policies and get away scot free. People die due to cuts and they die due to bad policy - are we happy about this?

I worked on the evaluation of a pretty well known recent health policy. We did a pilot study, found that it wasn't going to work, but in the mean time the government decided to just go ahead and roll out the policy before we even finished our evaluation. That's how ****ed up the government is. More interested in getting the credit for a policy being delivered, rather than the policy actually doing a good thing.


RANT OVER!
 
Put it this way, the NHS has seen dramatic failure under the tories. If the tories can manage dramatic change for the worse I don't see why Labour can't do the opposite.

Dont worry, you can rely on me to find BBC articles reporting on shortcomings of the Labour party should they get into power. I'll be like a right wing Barna :smile:
 
More interested in getting the credit for a policy being delivered, rather than the policy actually doing a good thing.

Which is a salient point considering how a few whispers emanating from Tory HQ have suggested that the delay in publishing the manifesto is down to Cameron feeling that it needs more "good news policies", leading to ideas being pitched left, right and centre to thinktanks and whatnot.

Funny how this freeze of rail fares seems to have come out of absolutely nowhere at the eleventh hour, with not a single person savvy as to how it's being paid for, eh?
 
Which is a salient point considering how a few whispers emanating from Tory HQ have suggested that the delay in publishing the manifesto is down to Cameron feeling that it needs more "good news policies", leading to ideas being pitched left, right and centre to thinktanks and whatnot.

Funny how this freeze of rail fares seems to have come out of absolutely nowhere at the eleventh hour, with not a single person savvy as to how it's being paid for, eh?
To be fair, it appears as though Ed's Mansion tax is going to pay for an awful lot under Labour.....
 
To be frank, if Labour are able to reduce the cuts whilst continuing to reduce the deficit and debt, then I'm not going to be massively concerned about anything other than having Ed Miliband as PM. I just cannot warm to the guy in any way. That doesn't mean that Cameron is anything special either, but in terms of PM material, he is the best of a bad bunch imo.

We can't allow the countries finances to drift into the direction of Greece. If that happens, you'll be wishing we were back to how we were now. I'm in favour of cuts until we make it into the black, and then the economy will become less important to me as a voting issue.


That quote about Greece has been bashed into the ground on more than one occasion now...We were never heading that way. Their GDP was something off the planet...The deficit maybe going down as a proportion of GDP but the borrowing is going through the roof...

I cant quite figure out still why people make such a difference about it ..If the Tories were not to get into power there would still be a debt owed during their parliament that has sky-rocketed..Is a debt not a debt whichever way you hang your hat? This country has always lived in a deficit way. I have mentioned before we have only just got around to paying off WW1 and WW2 debts ..how wasn't this such a major worry to the governments over the last 90/60 years? They are using it as a weapon to cut and privatise wherever they can to help the rich yet **** on the poor...
 
Do you know I have no idea whether they will or not , but Kermit the Frog could do a better job atm..The NHS is on it's knees. I really don't care about the past as that is what is is PAST, all I really care about is how the problem gets solved from here on and the cuts that the Tories made in their last term decimated it at every point..This has to stop.

Based solely on my many experiences with the NHS over the last three years, your post is complete and utter bollocks and I think you should be ashamed of yourself.:thumbdown:
 
Based solely on my many experiences with the NHS over the last three years, your post is complete and utter bollocks and I think you should be ashamed of yourself.:thumbdown:

I have no idea what your experiences are.( I am sorry if you have had sad or bad times) so how on earth can I comment on them..I was taking an overall picture of the current NHS,so I have no idea why I should be ashamed?

I haven't got into a topic of case upon case as we have all known people who have suffered in some way.
 
34o7siu.jpg
 
Dont worry, you can rely on me to find BBC articles reporting on shortcomings of the Labour party should they get into power. I'll be like a right wing Barna :smile:

And as a citizen of this country you should do that. If we don't hold our politicians to account then what is the point?
 
And as a citizen of this country you should do that. If we don't hold our politicians to account then what is the point?

Does that mean we can post Telegraph links (as opposed to Guardian ones) and ignore debate if we don't agree with a reply?:winking:
 
I have no idea what your experiences are.( I am sorry if you have had sad or bad times) so how on earth can I comment on them..I was taking an overall picture of the current NHS,so I have no idea why I should be ashamed?

I haven't got into a topic of case upon case as we have all known people who have suffered in some way.

Didn't mean to jump on you like that but I do get cheesed off with people (both Left and Right wing) who criticize a service that has stood me (and everyone I know) very well. Rather than jumping on the bandwagon, you should all just recognize what we have and praise it.
 
My own recent experience of NHS has been very good. In fact I believe that surveys indicate that people's own experiences are generally good.
I am sceptical of the benefits of privatising the NHS but I do wonder how much of the debate between the parties is hot air - the stats I've seen are that under last Labour government 4.4% of NHS services were privatised and under current government it has risen to 6.6%.
I don't doubt that the Conservatives are more likely to privatise more in future than Labour but I also think Labour are prone to the idea that the more they spend the better regardless of how it is spent. I know people who work in GP surgeries who tell horror stories of financial waste under the last Labour government.
I think all the parties want to avoid discussing how they are going to fund the ever increasing demands on the NHS. Spending more on the NHS and Education, freezing taxes (except for headline grabbing stuff about hitting the rich - I have little sympathy for the rich but am very doubtful as to how much in reality is going to be raised from that route) and getting rid of the deficit is conjuring trick they are all trying to pull on the British public.
 
Another point that needs to be made is that NHS funding hasnt been cut under the current government. It has had its funding increased in line with inflation. The reason why it is still under financial pressures is because medical costs increase greater than inflation due to new discoveries and demand on the NHS is increasing. Neither of these have been funded by the current govt but its far from clear to what extent a future Labour govt would fund these either.
All the largest areas of public expenditure - the NHS, Education and pensions - have to varying degrees been protected under the current govt. What this has meant though is that very large cuts have fallen on other areas such as defence, police and especially local govt.
All parties promises to continue protecting the same areas whilst eliminating the deficit and largely freezing taxation may mean big cuts continuing to fall on the areas already hit hardest. Even that may not clear the deficit as the current govt's estimates of future increases in tax revenues are optimistic to say the least leaving a black hole in all parties financial plans.
 
Another point that needs to be made is that NHS funding hasnt been cut under the current government. It has had its funding increased in line with inflation. The reason why it is still under financial pressures is because medical costs increase greater than inflation due to new discoveries and demand on the NHS is increasing. Neither of these have been funded by the current govt but its far from clear to what extent a future Labour govt would fund these either.
All the largest areas of public expenditure - the NHS, Education and pensions - have to varying degrees been protected under the current govt. What this has meant though is that very large cuts have fallen on other areas such as defence, police and especially local govt.
All parties promises to continue protecting the same areas whilst eliminating the deficit and largely freezing taxation may mean big cuts continuing to fall on the areas already hit hardest. Even that may not clear the deficit as the current govt's estimates of future increases in tax revenues are optimistic to say the least leaving a black hole in all parties financial plans.

Actually it's because this government has wasted money on a top down reorganisation of the NHS. That's after their election promise. You know, the one where they said there'd be no top down reorganisation of the NHS.
 
Actually it's because this government has wasted money on a top down reorganisation of the NHS. That's after their election promise. You know, the one where they said there'd be no top down reorganisation of the NHS.

Whilst I agree with you on broken promises of no top down reorgs, its far from the only reason the NHS is under pressure. It was far from the only costly reorg that the NHS has been through. I am not defending the current govt but I am sceptical about Labour's ability to do much better. They are after all the party that brought us all the Staffordshire NHS scandal and wasted huge amounts of money last time round in the belief that all that matters is how much is spent with the usefulness of what was being spent a poor second.
 
Whilst I agree with you on broken promises of no top down reorgs, its far from the only reason the NHS is under pressure. It was far from the only costly reorg that the NHS has been through. I am not defending the current govt but I am sceptical about Labour's ability to do much better. They are after all the party that brought us all the Staffordshire NHS scandal and wasted huge amounts of money last time round in the belief that all that matters is how much is spent with the usefulness of what was being spent a poor second.

My comment was in response to your assertion that NHS funding has increased. It may have been, but it has been wasted on a top down reorganisation when we were promised that wouldn't happen.
 
Another point that needs to be made is that NHS funding hasnt been cut under the current government. It has had its funding increased in line with inflation. The reason why it is still under financial pressures is because medical costs increase greater than inflation due to new discoveries and demand on the NHS is increasing. Neither of these have been funded by the current govt but its far from clear to what extent a future Labour govt would fund these either.
All the largest areas of public expenditure - the NHS, Education and pensions - have to varying degrees been protected under the current govt. What this has meant though is that very large cuts have fallen on other areas such as defence, police and especially local govt.
All parties promises to continue protecting the same areas whilst eliminating the deficit and largely freezing taxation may mean big cuts continuing to fall on the areas already hit hardest. Even that may not clear the deficit as the current govt's estimates of future increases in tax revenues are optimistic to say the least leaving a black hole in all parties financial plans.

Public sector pensions have been cut in some cases very unfairly on certain individuals who had paid for years into a government scheme. Not blaming just the this government, labour had put the wheels in motion.

Of course MP's across all party's voted not to 'reform' their own pensions as I quote ' their is not that many of us so it would not make a great difference to public spending'. Out of all the public sector schemes MP's pay the least amount in for what they take out. They qualify for a full pension after just 20 years. However they did vote to increase their allowance if they are voted out in May. Up from six months to a years wages, proving of course that parliament can act swiftly when it has too.
 
Back
Top