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Ricky Otto

President⭐
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
7,162
Location
Chelmsford
I really get the impression that, as a whole, the fans aren’t willing to give the Brown the time and patience they afforded Sturrock and I’d be interested to know why?

Most of our supporters were willing to give Luggy time to build in the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] season and nobody was that disappointed with a mid table finish. The 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] season was a higher expectation level but whilst he didn’t achieve promotion I think everybody thought he was the man to continue the job and hoped the upward spiral would continue. The 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] season saw us lose our way a bit and the prospect of another season missing promotion, coupled with the direct football that lacked entertainment value, saw a number of fans calling for a change, myself included. I don’t remember anybody suggesting a change of management until mid way through his 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] season though. Luggy was given time.

The Brown appointment was not popular on mass and I have heard calls of change already. I would be interested to hear form those of you who aren’t fans of Brown.

- Is it because he is more arrogant and abraisive than Luggy?
- Is it because you saw Sturrock’s task as a bigger one than Brown’s?
- Are you not impressed by his past managerial record in comparison to Luggys?
- Basically why are you not willing to give Brown the time you were willing to give Luggy?

I think Brown has shown promise. I’m not discounting what Sturrock did in his 1[SUP]st[/SUP] season but I don’t think it was a much harder position than the one Brown finds himself in. I’m still pro Brown and barring any flirting with relegation, I’d be willing to give him this season and next to try and get us promoted.
 
The only issue I have is

Played 6, won 0.

And starting with 4 players with 3 weeks to build a squad is much harder than starting with however many Brown had with 4 months to prepare.
 
Firstly, when Brown first came I said I was against it but would still support him. I'm pleased he is trying to change the style to a more passing one and said before the season started that this one will be a mid-table season and challenging for play-offs next season.

As for him having a harder task than Sturrock when he first came here. Seriously? Sturrock had 4 players when he came, 3 of them are now playing in the Conference or lower. Brown has come in and signed several players, yet his best players are the ones left over from Sturrock's reign. Mid-way through his 3rd season (i.e. before the injury crisis) we were in the top 7, so would you have really sacked the manager when he was in a play-off spot?

Brown has done himself no favours with his media outbursts, even before he was manager here he made some monumental public cockups which made him look like an idiot.

Like I said in the first paragraph, I'm not happy with his appointment but that doesn't mean I want him to leave and from the poll that was up earlier then 93% agree he needs more time.
 
Is it because he is more arrogant and abraisive than Luggy?
Personality traits are always a key decider on who you take to, but as I won’t be interacting with him on a daily basis these are hugely secondary. His personality has, however, already led to some concerning comments in the press. Shouldering some of the blame himself, rather than stepping aside and allowing it to fall entirely on the players, wouldn’t go a miss.

Is it because you saw Sturrock’s task as a bigger one than Brown’s?
Sturrock’s task was considerably bigger than Brown’s, and he came within a whisker of achieving it. That said, Sturrock’s reign is over and I don’t believe a past manager’s success/failure should be used to judge the current incumbent's.

My problem is that Brown appears to be fumbling around the job at the moment. He’s been unlucky with injuries, but the constant chopping and changing has led to inconsistent team selection and I don’t believe he knows his strongest eleven. Several months into the job, that’s a worry.

Are you not impressed by his past managerial record in comparison to Luggys?
As I’ve said, I’m reticent to use one manager’s record against another’s to determine how applicable they are for the job at hand. What I will say is that Brown’s success came at a time when he was afforded a fairly sizeable budget and was allowed to populate his squad with established professionals. He doesn’t have that luxury here as we can’t afford them. In our position we should be looking to buy low and sell high, bring in young players from non-league football, refine them and sell them at a profit.

Basically why are you not willing to give Brown the time you were willing to give Luggy?
Because it’s my opinion that Brown was categorically the wrong appointment in the first place, and little has gone on since to cause me to change that opinion. Sturrock had a wealth of experience of working under a budget comparative to ours and forging success in spite of it. Brown lacks that experience, and his comments in the press indicated to me at least that he was find it incredibly frustrating not being able to bring in the players he wanted, when he wanted them.

If he’d had other offers, he would’ve taken them long before he wound up with us. I’m not saying that’s not true of other managers, but Brown’s not here because he fancies the challenge, he’s here because Glentoran said “Na, you’re alright Phil.”





Plus, Jeremy Kyle.
 
2 out of those 3 public out bursts will not have helped his cause. The first one he would definitely have got away with had he learned to watch what he says in interviews in the future. The next two that have followed I'm afraid has made him walking a tightrope needlessly. It goes against the fine art of man management. For what its worth three quarters of the First team squad were in David Lloyd this morning and have to say there appeared no sense of good banter going on. Make of that what you will. The squad appeared to be minus Freddy.
 
What was going in favour of Paul Sturrock is that he knew this level of the game well. Ok not always a success but he has achieved promotions on the flip side however unappealing his style of play was. His second season was rotten luck but over the course of the three seasons did remarkably well with the conditions/finances. Ok Brown has Dave Penney but how successful was he at this level?
 
2 out of those 3 public out bursts will not have helped his cause. The first one he would definitely have got away with had he learned to watch what he says in interviews in the future. The next two that have followed I'm afraid has made him walking a tightrope needlessly. It goes against the fine art of man management. For what its worth three quarters of the First team squad were in David Lloyd this morning and have to say there appeared no sense of good banter going on. Make of that what you will. The squad appeared to be minus Freddy.

Was your good mate Paul Benson there or has that season changing injury kicked in yet?
 
Is it because he is more arrogant and abraisive than Luggy?
Personality traits are always a key decider on who you take to, but as I won’t be interacting with him on a daily basis these are hugely secondary. His personality has, however, already led to some concerning comments in the press. Shouldering some of the blame himself, rather than stepping aside and allowing it to fall entirely on the players, wouldn’t go a miss.

Is it because you saw Sturrock’s task as a bigger one than Brown’s?
Sturrock’s task was considerably bigger than Brown’s, and he came within a whisker of achieving it. That said, Sturrock’s reign is over and I don’t believe a past manager’s success/failure should be used to judge the current incumbent's.

My problem is that Brown appears to be fumbling around the job at the moment. He’s been unlucky with injuries, but the constant chopping and changing has led to inconsistent team selection and I don’t believe he knows his strongest eleven. Several months into the job, that’s a worry.

Are you not impressed by his past managerial record in comparison to Luggys?
As I’ve said, I’m reticent to use one manager’s record against another’s to determine how applicable they are for the job at hand. What I will say is that Brown’s success came at a time when he was afforded a fairly sizeable budget and was allowed to populate his squad with established professionals. He doesn’t have that luxury here as we can’t afford them. In our position we should be looking to buy low and sell high, bring in young players from non-league football, refine them and sell them at a profit.

Basically why are you not willing to give Brown the time you were willing to give Luggy?
Because it’s my opinion that Brown was categorically the wrong appointment in the first place, and little has gone on since to cause me to change that opinion. Sturrock had a wealth of experience of working under a budget comparative to ours and forging success in spite of it. Brown lacks that experience, and his comments in the press indicated to me at least that he was find it incredibly frustrating not being able to bring in the players he wanted, when he wanted them.

If he’d had other offers, he would’ve taken them long before he wound up with us. I’m not saying that’s not true of other managers, but Brown’s not here because he fancies the challenge, he’s here because Glentoran said “Na, you’re alright Phil.”



100% in agreement with this.
 
Im really not bothered about what he says in the media , all Im interested in is the results.

On a positive the football is of a better style, but its not much use if we arent winning.

We have some decent players here and performances overall have been decent, we need to start winning, its that simple.
 
Firstly, when Brown first came I said I was against it but would still support him. I'm pleased he is trying to change the style to a more passing one and said before the season started that this one will be a mid-table season and challenging for play-offs next season.

As for him having a harder task than Sturrock when he first came here. Seriously? Sturrock had 4 players when he came, 3 of them are now playing in the Conference or lower. Brown has come in and signed several players, yet his best players are the ones left over from Sturrock's reign. Mid-way through his 3rd season (i.e. before the injury crisis) we were in the top 7, so would you have really sacked the manager when he was in a play-off spot?

Brown has done himself no favours with his media outbursts, even before he was manager here he made some monumental public cockups which made him look like an idiot.

Like I said in the first paragraph, I'm not happy with his appointment but that doesn't mean I want him to leave and from the poll that was up earlier then 93% agree he needs more time.

I do love how people can read and completely mis-quote for dramatic effect on here. Where did I say I though Brown had a harder job? I didn’t, because I don’t. I do think there were advantages Sturrock had in building a squad from scratch rather than being left with a squad of players who may not have fitted the way he wanted to play. Sturrock had a tough job assembling those players in such a short period of time, I’m not denying that, but Brown had contracted players and only limited squad places to bring in who he wanted. I won’t quote this as fact but I have also been told from a lot of people that this season’s budget is considerably lower than Sturrock’s 1[SUP]st[/SUP] season. So overall I don’t think that Luggy had a MUCH harder job than Brown.

I can see logic in the rest of your post, perhaps you didn’t read mine properly.
 
The results are all important. But you need good man management to try and give you the best chance of achieving this. If this part of management is lousy technically it makes things harder as players have to be as happy as possible. so it is important how he conducts himself and what he says in the media.
 
I do love how people can read and completely mis-quote for dramatic effect on here. Where did I say I though Brown had a harder job? I didn’t, because I don’t. I do think there were advantages Sturrock had in building a squad from scratch rather than being left with a squad of players who may not have fitted the way he wanted to play. Sturrock had a tough job assembling those players in such a short period of time, I’m not denying that, but Brown had contracted players and only limited squad places to bring in who he wanted. I won’t quote this as fact but I have also been told from a lot of people that this season’s budget is considerably lower than Sturrock’s 1[SUP]st[/SUP] season. So overall I don’t think that Luggy had a MUCH harder job than Brown.

I can see logic in the rest of your post, perhaps you didn’t read mine properly.

My apologies, misread your last paragraph and didn't see the word "much".

Wouldn't be surprised if the budget was going down season on season as attendances have dropped too. IIRC Easton was rumoured to be offered a smaller wage to extend his contract, but not sure if that is 100% true.

I agree with ESB and don't think we should be judging Brown against Sturrock because the circumstances are completely different, Sturrock is in the past and Brown is now the future.
 
I do love how people can read and completely mis-quote for dramatic effect on here. Where did I say I though Brown had a harder job? I didn’t, because I don’t. I do think there were advantages Sturrock had in building a squad from scratch rather than being left with a squad of players who may not have fitted the way he wanted to play. Sturrock had a tough job assembling those players in such a short period of time, I’m not denying that, but Brown had contracted players and only limited squad places to bring in who he wanted. I won’t quote this as fact but I have also been told from a lot of people that this season’s budget is considerably lower than Sturrock’s 1[SUP]st[/SUP] season. So overall I don’t think that Luggy had a MUCH harder job than Brown.

I can see logic in the rest of your post, perhaps you didn’t read mine properly.


Perhaps when you said

I’m not discounting what Sturrock did in his 1st season but I don’t think it was a much harder position than the one Brown finds himself in.

By saying you dont think it was much harder you are saying its about the same challenge, which it isnt at all. Sturrocks first season was far harder. Not only did he have to bring in an entire squad he had to do it in a matter of weeks. Brown had 4 months to prepare and already had a half decent squad .

Chapperz may have misworded his reply but the point is the same, Sturrock got more leeway because he had a much harder challenge.
 
Is it because he is more arrogant and abraisive than Luggy?
Personality traits are always a key decider on who you take to, but as I won’t be interacting with him on a daily basis these are hugely secondary. His personality has, however, already led to some concerning comments in the press. Shouldering some of the blame himself, rather than stepping aside and allowing it to fall entirely on the players, wouldn’t go a miss.

Is it because you saw Sturrock’s task as a bigger one than Brown’s?
Sturrock’s task was considerably bigger than Brown’s, and he came within a whisker of achieving it. That said, Sturrock’s reign is over and I don’t believe a past manager’s success/failure should be used to judge the current incumbent's.

My problem is that Brown appears to be fumbling around the job at the moment. He’s been unlucky with injuries, but the constant chopping and changing has led to inconsistent team selection and I don’t believe he knows his strongest eleven. Several months into the job, that’s a worry.

Are you not impressed by his past managerial record in comparison to Luggys?
As I’ve said, I’m reticent to use one manager’s record against another’s to determine how applicable they are for the job at hand. What I will say is that Brown’s success came at a time when he was afforded a fairly sizeable budget and was allowed to populate his squad with established professionals. He doesn’t have that luxury here as we can’t afford them. In our position we should be looking to buy low and sell high, bring in young players from non-league football, refine them and sell them at a profit.

Basically why are you not willing to give Brown the time you were willing to give Luggy?
Because it’s my opinion that Brown was categorically the wrong appointment in the first place, and little has gone on since to cause me to change that opinion. Sturrock had a wealth of experience of working under a budget comparative to ours and forging success in spite of it. Brown lacks that experience, and his comments in the press indicated to me at least that he was find it incredibly frustrating not being able to bring in the players he wanted, when he wanted them.

If he’d had other offers, he would’ve taken them long before he wound up with us. I’m not saying that’s not true of other managers, but Brown’s not here because he fancies the challenge, he’s here because Glentoran said “Na, you’re alright Phil.”





Plus, Jeremy Kyle.

This is good, I see a lot of good reasoning in your post, not that I agree with it all. You have made a good effort to answer all my queries and I appreciate that.

You think Brown is the wrong appointment from the beginning and I’d agree his experience at this level is a concern. I think he has transferrable skills that could benefit us though and he does seem to have a clear idea of what he wants to do at the club, I’m talking the wider picture as I acknowledge the squad selection has been inconsistent. I’m not sure this is down to Brown not knowing his best 11, I think he has an idea with all players fit and I think he has an idea of what he needs for that 1 spot we allowed to fill.

I’d be interested if you would be wanting a change of personnel if we were mid bottom half at Xmas? Or would you give him more time?
 
Is it because he is more arrogant and abraisive than Luggy?
Personality traits are always a key decider on who you take to, but as I won’t be interacting with him on a daily basis these are hugely secondary. His personality has, however, already led to some concerning comments in the press. Shouldering some of the blame himself, rather than stepping aside and allowing it to fall entirely on the players, wouldn’t go a miss.

Is it because you saw Sturrock’s task as a bigger one than Brown’s?
Sturrock’s task was considerably bigger than Brown’s, and he came within a whisker of achieving it. That said, Sturrock’s reign is over and I don’t believe a past manager’s success/failure should be used to judge the current incumbent's.

My problem is that Brown appears to be fumbling around the job at the moment. He’s been unlucky with injuries, but the constant chopping and changing has led to inconsistent team selection and I don’t believe he knows his strongest eleven. Several months into the job, that’s a worry.

Are you not impressed by his past managerial record in comparison to Luggys?
As I’ve said, I’m reticent to use one manager’s record against another’s to determine how applicable they are for the job at hand. What I will say is that Brown’s success came at a time when he was afforded a fairly sizeable budget and was allowed to populate his squad with established professionals. He doesn’t have that luxury here as we can’t afford them. In our position we should be looking to buy low and sell high, bring in young players from non-league football, refine them and sell them at a profit.

Basically why are you not willing to give Brown the time you were willing to give Luggy?
Because it’s my opinion that Brown was categorically the wrong appointment in the first place, and little has gone on since to cause me to change that opinion. Sturrock had a wealth of experience of working under a budget comparative to ours and forging success in spite of it. Brown lacks that experience, and his comments in the press indicated to me at least that he was find it incredibly frustrating not being able to bring in the players he wanted, when he wanted them.

If he’d had other offers, he would’ve taken them long before he wound up with us. I’m not saying that’s not true of other managers, but Brown’s not here because he fancies the challenge, he’s here because Glentoran said “Na, you’re alright Phil.”





Plus, Jeremy Kyle.

How has he been unlucky with injuries?

End of last season he came in as the likes of Tomlin, Laird, Phillips, Barker etc were all returning from injury.

This year ok Laird is out injured again and Phillips has missed a few games.

That's not unlucky.

I do love how people can read and completely mis-quote for dramatic effect on here. Where did I say I though Brown had a harder job? I didn’t, because I don’t. I do think there were advantages Sturrock had in building a squad from scratch rather than being left with a squad of players who may not have fitted the way he wanted to play. Sturrock had a tough job assembling those players in such a short period of time, I’m not denying that, but Brown had contracted players and only limited squad places to bring in who he wanted. I won’t quote this as fact but I have also been told from a lot of people that this season’s budget is considerably lower than Sturrock’s 1[SUP]st[/SUP] season. So overall I don’t think that Luggy had a MUCH harder job than Brown.

I can see logic in the rest of your post, perhaps you didn’t read mine properly.

Rubbish.

Brown offered deals to Bentley, White, Coker, Prosser, Thompson, Bennett, Auger, Leonard, Atkinson, Timlin, Clifford, Payne, Pinnock, Corr, Reid, Woodrow and that crap bloke whose name I've forgotten already.

That leaves by my reckoning Phillips, Eastwood, Laird, Smith, Straker (who he starts over Timlin) and Hurst as the only players he was lumbered with. Five of those are in his starting line-up.
 
How has he been unlucky with injuries?

End of last season he came in as the likes of Tomlin, Laird, Phillips, Barker etc were all returning from injury.

This year ok Laird is out injured again and Phillips has missed a few games.

That's not unlucky.

Bennett was brought in and filled a valuable space in the 20-man squad and was then ruled out for months. The injuries Brown's had to deal with to date haven't been at a level that Sturrock had to contend with at times, but when the squad is limited to 20 players each injury is exacerbated.
 
How has he been unlucky with injuries?

End of last season he came in as the likes of Tomlin, Laird, Phillips, Barker etc were all returning from injury.

This year ok Laird is out injured again and Phillips has missed a few games.

That's not unlucky.



Rubbish.

Brown offered deals to Bentley, White, Coker, Prosser, Thompson, Bennett, Auger, Leonard, Atkinson, Timlin, Clifford, Payne, Pinnock, Corr, Reid, Woodrow and that crap bloke whose name I've forgotten already.

That leaves by my reckoning Phillips, Eastwood, Laird, Smith, Straker (who he starts over Timlin) and Hurst as the only players he was lumbered with. Five of those are in his starting line-up.

Was that crap player Don Cowan?
 
1.His belief that Straker can be a lower league Bale which meant he didn't go out and buy the left winter we need in the team.
2. Craig Reid.
 
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