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Mick

Life President
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
10,936
The general tirade of abuse directed towards the, on this occasion, hapless Mr Ward seems to have run over a couple of threads so I'll put my response in a seperate one.

Whilst most of the criticism is undoubtedly justified, there is included amongst it, a number of inaccuracies and misconceptions.


Handball must be deliberate and the sanction for it is a direct free-kick (or a penalty). There is no mandatory card for handball.

If in, the opinion of the referee, the handball constituted unsporting behaviour then a yellow card will be shown. If, in the opinion of the referee, an obvious goalscoring opportunity is denied by the handball, a red card will be shown. This applies equally to a goalkeeper or outfield player.

Therefore, if the referee was of the opinion that the shot was not going in or a defender would probably have stopped it, a yellow card would be the correct decision.


When players take the ball into the corners to run down time, yes, referees have been encouraged to give the benefit of any doubt to the player not shielding the ball should any contact ensue. Possibly in a bid to eliminate this unattractive tactic.


Gavin Ward is not being fast-tracked. He is not a member of the Talent Group of young so-called promising officials from which will come the next batch of Select Group officials. His appointments have reflected this lack of any immediate promotion hopes.
 
Well, I must admit I had thought deliberate handball was a red-card offence no matter what but, from where I sit in the East, directly behind Freedman's handballed shot, it was on target and with no defender on the line it was in no way obvious that a defender would have got back in time to stop it. So I feel it should have been a red card.
 
Why should we automatically assume a defender would clear the ball even if he is between the ball and the goal?? In my view this is deliberate cheating and it is a prevention of a goal scoring opportunity (even if the shot was not scored). After all if a defender pulls down a striker through on goal with only the gk to beat this rule applies (even though the striker could put the ball in row z)! Why should yesterdays incident be any different?
 
Why should we automatically assume a defender would clear the ball even if he is between the ball and the goal?? In my view this is deliberate cheating and it is a prevention of a goal scoring opportunity (even if the shot was not scored). After all if a defender pulls down a striker through on goal with only the gk to beat this rule applies (even though the striker could put the ball in row z)! Why should yesterdays incident be any different?

It's different because in your case above the striker hasn't taken his shot and the referee will decide whether it's an obvious goal scoring opportunity ie a good chance of scoring.

In yesterday's case the shot had been taken. It was either going in or not and that is what the referee had to decide.

If it wasn't going in, however much the keeper was trying to "cheat" then it is still not a red card. (For what it's worth, I don't call that cheating. I call it a goalkeeper taking a course of action which was against the rules in recognition that the prescribed punishment might be better for his team than conceding a goal. Cheating is simulation, diving, trying to punch the ball in, trying to get players sent off unjustly etc.).

Having said all that, there are enough well placed people who have said is was going in, so the referee has made a rod for his own back by not taking the course of action that was expected and probably would not have brought him any real grief from the opposition. Sometimes officials make it unnecessarily hard for themselves.
 
I have never seen a keeper handle the ball outside his box and not get a red card. End of story!
 
Exactly Steve, that's why it has caused so much anger and bewilderment from the fans. Especially as (from where I sit in the South Upper) Freedman's shot looked on target.

Thank god we won.
 
I have never seen a keeper handle the ball outside his box and not get a red card. End of story!

It happens; goalkeepers lose their sense of direction and completely unchallenged catch the ball outside their area. Also keepers sometimes leave their area before drop-kicking the ball away.

So because you haven't seen it, it's "End of Story"?
 
Exactly Steve, that's why it has caused so much anger and bewilderment from the fans. Especially as (from where I sit in the South Upper) Freedman's shot looked on target. Thank god we won.

That is the crux of it. If it was on target with an obvious chance of going in, he should walk. If not yellow is correct.
 
It happens; goalkeepers lose their sense of direction and completely unchallenged catch the ball outside their area. Also keepers sometimes leave their area before drop-kicking the ball away.

So because you haven't seen it, it's "End of Story"?

In my eyes, yes it is end of story. I've seen so much football in my life from so many divisions, and i have never seen a keeper get away with it. Whether the ball was going in or not is irrelevant imo.
I'm pretty sure 90% of people on here agree with me that it should have been an automatic red too
 
The general tirade of abuse directed towards the, on this occasion, hapless Mr Ward seems to have run over a couple of threads so I'll put my response in a seperate one.

Whilst most of the criticism is undoubtedly justified, there is included amongst it, a number of inaccuracies and misconceptions.


Handball must be deliberate and the sanction for it is a direct free-kick (or a penalty). There is no mandatory card for handball.

If in, the opinion of the referee, the handball constituted unsporting behaviour then a yellow card will be shown. If, in the opinion of the referee, an obvious goalscoring opportunity is denied by the handball, a red card will be shown. This applies equally to a goalkeeper or outfield player.

Therefore, if the referee was of the opinion that the shot was not going in or a defender would probably have stopped it, a yellow card would be the correct decision.


When players take the ball into the corners to run down time, yes, referees have been encouraged to give the benefit of any doubt to the player not shielding the ball should any contact ensue. Possibly in a bid to eliminate this unattractive tactic.


Gavin Ward is not being fast-tracked. He is not a member of the Talent Group of young so-called promising officials from which will come the next batch of Select Group officials. His appointments have reflected this lack of any immediate promotion hopes.


Watched the Liverpool/Chelsea game this afternoon. Benayouan took the ball into the corner, was harassed by 2 Chelsea players, to the extent that one of them raised his foot up Benayouan's back and kicked him over..to which the ref blew and awarded a free kick......to the Chelsea player?????
 
In my eyes, yes it is end of story. I've seen so much football in my life from so many divisions, and i have never seen a keeper get away with it. Whether the ball was going in or not is irrelevant imo. I'm pretty sure 90% of people on here agree with me that it should have been an automatic red too

Do we want to talk about the Laws of the Game or people's opinions on what they might/should be ?
 
Well, I must admit I had thought deliberate handball was a red-card offence no matter what but, from where I sit in the East, directly behind Freedman's handballed shot, it was on target and with no defender on the line it was in no way obvious that a defender would have got back in time to stop it. So I feel it should have been a red card.

You obviously sit near me, poor bugger!! As I said elsewhere, The ball was goalbound & the defenders I doubt would have got near it!!

I have never seen a keeper handle the ball outside his box and not get a red card. End of story!

My thoughts too, although as a keeper, I've always thought it unfair they've been sent off. I've never seen a handball from a keeper in that position, which if I'm being nice to the useless merchant banker, probably confused his simple mind! I bet he gets his deliveries wrong on his paper round!!
 
Watched the Liverpool/Chelsea game this afternoon. Benayouan took the ball into the corner, was harassed by 2 Chelsea players, to the extent that one of them raised his foot up Benayouan's back and kicked him over..to which the ref blew and awarded a free kick......to the Chelsea player?????

I saw that. How the two officials did not I cannot understand. It was a far more blantant straight red than Lampards.
 
The general tirade of abuse directed towards the, on this occasion, hapless Mr Ward seems to have run over a couple of threads so I'll put my response in a seperate one.

Whilst most of the criticism is undoubtedly justified, there is included amongst it, a number of inaccuracies and misconceptions.


Handball must be deliberate and the sanction for it is a direct free-kick (or a penalty). There is no mandatory card for handball.

If in, the opinion of the referee, the handball constituted unsporting behaviour then a yellow card will be shown. If, in the opinion of the referee, an obvious goalscoring opportunity is denied by the handball, a red card will be shown. This applies equally to a goalkeeper or outfield player.

Therefore, if the referee was of the opinion that the shot was not going in or a defender would probably have stopped it, a yellow card would be the correct decision.


When players take the ball into the corners to run down time, yes, referees have been encouraged to give the benefit of any doubt to the player not shielding the ball should any contact ensue. Possibly in a bid to eliminate this unattractive tactic.


Gavin Ward is not being fast-tracked. He is not a member of the Talent Group of young so-called promising officials from which will come the next batch of Select Group officials. His appointments have reflected this lack of any immediate promotion hopes.

That's all fair enough, but why on earth would the keeper bother saving it if he thought it wasn't going in or the defender had it covered?
 
That's all fair enough, but why on earth would the keeper bother saving it if he thought it wasn't going in or the defender had it covered?

Maybe because he thought Geography was the right round to play the joker on......;):D?!
 
I hope we never see this jumped up little **** again. He was awful yesterday and made some shocking decisions. I think he he very lucky that we came away with the points as anything less would have led to him being lynched!
 
That's all fair enough, but why on earth would the keeper bother saving it if he thought it wasn't going in or the defender had it covered?

It's not what the keeper thinks that counts, it's what the referee thinks. We've all seen keepers save shots that were going over or wide and we've seen them leave shows going in. This appears largely academic as consensus suggests it was going in and it was therefore a wrong call by the official.
 
It's not what the keeper thinks that counts, it's what the referee thinks. We've all seen keepers save shots that were going over or wide and we've seen them leave shows going in. This appears largely academic as consensus suggests it was going in and it was therefore a wrong call by the official.

Of course it is what the ref thinks rather than the keeper, but when the keeper thinks it is probably going in, that's a rather big clue for the referee.
 
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