Ref Watch Referees and things .....

[slimshaney]

The ref said at the time that there was a covering defender so it only a yellow.

I only know this because the same thing happened to me, if a keeper handles outside the area its a yellow, if he stops a goal scoring opportunity and has no defender behind him, it’s a red.

 

[slimshaney]

That's all fair enough, but why on earth would the keeper bother saving it if he thought it wasn't going in or the defender had it covered?

A keeper will always use his hands, he just forget where you are, its just auto reaction

 

[Sean 2]

I watched the 'keeper have a good look round to see where his defenders were and he knew darn well they'd never got back in time so he saved it.
As others have said and from my position ,up in the gods of the East,Dooogie had whacked it goalbound with a great effort and we were cheated from a goal.
The bit of play that resulted in Mildy saving us saw a quick attack from the Gas,P Clarke had got on the wrong side of his striker and watched the ball get quickly played out wide, made sure he collided with that striker and went down looking for a free-kick knowing it was all he could do, so in my eyes the ref got that one right.
Giving the free-kicks down by the corner flag,disallowing a good goal and leaving the 'keeper on the field of play were in my eyes glaring mistakes.

To put it midly.

 

[bazzashrimper]

With this one, I feel that any ball going anywhere near the oppositions goal with no keeper in place is a goalscoring opportunity. How often do we see players miskick on the line when under pressure, or kick straight along the floor to an oncoming striker. I feel that we had as much opportunity to score there as if a player was going through one on one with a keeper.

I agree with Mick that because a keeper handling outside the box is not written in the rules it doesn't automatically make it a red card, but there definitely was a goal scoring chance so its a red.

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

I have never seen a keeper handle the ball outside his box and not get a red card. End of story!

It happened at Glanford Park three-and-a-half years ago in a 1-0 defeat to Scunthorpe. Mitchell Cole raced through one-on-one with Paul Musselwhite, hit a low shot goalwards with the 'keeper yards outside of his area, and blatantly made a full-blown save, pushing the ball to safety. Inexplicably, referee Andy Woolmer - no stranger to Shrimpers supporters, it has to be said - didn't even spot that one at all, and failed to give us even a free-kick, so at least Ward's one-up on him!

 

[Maldon Blues]

It happened at Glanford Park three-and-a-half years ago in a 1-0 defeat to Scunthorpe. Mitchell Cole raced through one-on-one with Paul Musselwhite, hit a low shot goalwards with the 'keeper yards outside of his area, and blatantly made a full-blown save, pushing the ball to safety. Inexplicably, referee Andy Woolmer - no stranger to Shrimpers supporters, it has to be said - didn't even spot that one at all, and failed to give us even a free-kick, so at least Ward's one-up on him!

And Musselwhite then spent the remainder of the match making Nescafe and V signs at the away fans!

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

In my eyes, yes it is end of story. I've seen so much football in my life from so many divisions, and i have never seen a keeper get away with it. Whether the ball was going in or not is irrelevant imo.
I'm pretty sure 90% of people on here agree with me that it should have been an automatic red too

On the other side of the coin, I've seen Dave Beasant only booked for this offence when Wimbledon were in the top flight, and last season a keeper from London APSA in the Essex Senior League was similarly only cautioned for this offence.

Two leagues, apparently worlds apart, but the very same outcome that Mick has alluded to. It happens.

 

[RobM]

Mick, "it isn't cheating"? A deliberate breach of the laws most certainly is (to me at least)! How could the 'keeper "lose his bearings"? He crossed a 5" thick white line - wouldn't that have given him a clue as well as his proximity to the touchline?

In any case we won so I'm not too upset.

 

[Mick]

Mick, "it isn't cheating"? A deliberate breach of the laws most certainly is (to me at least)! How could the 'keeper "lose his bearings"? He crossed a 5" thick white line - wouldn't that have given him a clue as well as his proximity to the touchline?

In any case we won so I'm not too upset.

Slight semantics but for me cheating is trying to deceive. This was no more cheating than say blatantly bringing down a forward through on goal. It might be callous and calculated but it is not cheating. To take the action and face the prescribed consequences which we rely on the appointed officials to carry out. Doesn't always work out like that I guess.

 

[philtalkin]

The ref said at the time that there was a covering defender so it only a yellow.quote]

Your point is interesting.

If the last defender brings a player down when he is clean through then it is a red card, even though he still has the keeper to beat.

In this case, the goalkeeper was the offender so, was in fact the last man.

I think Mick could answer this but if the referee did in fact say there was a covering defender then surely he has got it wrong!

 

[Hooly]

Two leagues, apparently worlds apart, but the very same outcome that Mick has alluded to. It happens.

All well & good SG, but isn't the real issue the inconsistency again. I've been going to footy for nigh on 40 years & I don't personally remember seeing a keeper not sent off before for handball outside his area, sometimes in the most innocuous of fashions, in a game I've been at. It may have happened but my memory isn't that good, whoever you are.

Also watching games on TV I would hazard a guess that 9 out of 10 are dismissed for lesser (than Sat) deliberate handball infractions outside the area e.g. when they simply misjudge where they are. So comparing that to a keeper who flings himself sideways when well outside the area & stays on is where they confuse everyone.

Presumably therefore in many of those 9 out of the 10 cases the keeper should by rights stay on. Not that I agree & nor would I have done that when refereeing. Probably I would have been incorrect but I would consider it correct in the spirit of the game, which to the law makers is generally irrelevant. And possibly the thought of being lynched by a bunch of knuckle-dragging hungover neanderthals from Bas Vegas or Cannes-vey. Or to be fair usually both teams!

 

[Fish]

Right, from the off I wasn't at the game so I'm only making my comments based on what I have read on varfious posts this morning. However, I do have some experience in officiating team sports (hockey) and have some comments about intent and the game flow.

If a goalkeeper comes out of his area and handles (i.e. hand to ball, either playing the ball or trying to block it), I simply don't understand how this can be 'not deliberate'. As I understand it, if you're the 'last defender' with still a goalkeeper to beat and the defender commits a foul, he walks. Why then if the goalkeeper commits a foul with only an outfield player left to beat (surely an easier task therefore more likely to end in a goal) does the goalkeeper not get the same treatment? It's not like the game has to stop for 5 minutes whilst the defending team get a new keeper padded up to come on to replace the one sent off, is it? We're talking about someone who get's paid a SALARY to play in goal, so I have no sympathy for those who say 'it was accidental' or 'he didn't realise he was out of his area'. If he doesn't know where his area is he shouldn't be playing football.

Even if we agree that the defender behind the goal keeper COULD have got to it, a defender possibly facing his own goal with the ball only recently at his feet with forwards bearing down on him is surely a bigger advantage than a free kick outside the box? So even if the goalkeeper's actions were 'accidental', the advantage to the attacking team is lost, meaning that if the ref has blown to stop the game, the goalkeeper has in effect prevented a decent goalscoring opportunity - for which he must be sent off. Either play on (based on judgement of accidental handball and advantage still playing out), or send the keeper off straight away. But don't stop the advantage and then NOT send the keeper off. Where'sthe punishment there? He's got exactly what he wants - stopped the dangerous attack in its tracks and stayed on the pitch.

And then we wonder why fans get frustrated at refs?

 

[Mick]

All well & good SG, but isn't the real issue the inconsistency again. I've been going to footy for nigh on 40 years & I don't personally remember seeing a keeper not sent off before for handball outside his area, sometimes in the most innocuous of fashions, in a game I've been at. It may have happened but my memory isn't that good, whoever you are.

Also watching games on TV I would hazard a guess that 9 out of 10 are dismissed for lesser (than Sat) deliberate handball infractions outside the area e.g. when they simply misjudge where they are. So comparing that to a keeper who flings himself sideways when well outside the area & stays on is where they confuse everyone.

Presumably therefore in many of those 9 out of the 10 cases the keeper should by rights stay on. Not that I agree & nor would I have done that when refereeing. Probably I would have been incorrect but I would consider it correct in the spirit of the game, which to the law makers is generally irrelevant. And possibly the thought of being lynched by a bunch of knuckle-dragging hungover neanderthals from Bas Vegas or Cannes-vey. Or to be fair usually both teams!

A good case study on this one is the Barnet away Cup-tie at Old Trafford when Richard Beeby ruined the match and the day out for 5,000 Barnet fans (where have they gone now?) by sending their keeper off for catching a bouncing ball just outside the area where there was no goal threat after anout 4 minutes. The appeal was upheld and Beeby, who was clearly Premiership bound and had been given a few Premiership matches to do, saw his top flight career disappear with one incorrect flourish of a red card.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not saying the keeper should not have been sent off, simply trying to bury the myth that handball by the keeper outside the area is a de facto red card. It is not. Trust me.

 

[McNasty]

Mick we trust you. It just shows, given your example, how a ref can, rightly or wrongly, govern how a game may go. One incorrect decision, not that Barnet were likely to win, and their day was ruined.
One thing though, how would we be reacting if it had been Mildenhall handling and not getting sent off ?

 

[OldBlueLady]

Most of the Brizzle supporters seem to think he should have been sent off, this is just one comment from 606

comment by AGasFan (U8394545)
posted 33 Minutes Ago

Fed up moaning about formation as it will never change.

P.S. to all the Southend fans "yes our keeper should have been senn off" no questions about it.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

just seen the video. It's pretty obvious whether you're a ref or not that the keeper should have gone. He's miles out of his area and knows it, commits one foul with a push in the back then deliberately catches the ball. He did not know if it was goal bound or not but I guess he thought it was or at least would go to one of our players. What more does he have to do? The commentator was predicting a red and was astonished that he wasn't. So was I.

 

[gazzacat42]

It happened at Glanford Park three-and-a-half years ago in a 1-0 defeat to Scunthorpe. Mitchell Cole raced through one-on-one with Paul Musselwhite, hit a low shot goalwards with the 'keeper yards outside of his area, and blatantly made a full-blown save, pushing the ball to safety. Inexplicably, referee Andy Woolmer - no stranger to Shrimpers supporters, it has to be said - didn't even spot that one at all, and failed to give us even a free-kick, so at least Ward's one-up on him!

Also happened at Torquay on a very wet December day. Flahavan came out of his goal and was only booked.

 

[Mick]

Also happened at Torquay on a very wet December day. Flahavan came out of his goal and was only booked.

2002-3 ... we had 6 players booked that day. Am sure everyone on here was up in arms about the injustice of it. :)

 

[Angell Delight]

As a referee myself for many years I have to say the correct decision shouldn't even need to be debated and it wouldn't have been if Mr Ward had done his job properly - it was a blatant red card. I also saw nothing wrong with Clarke's header from the ensuing free-kick either. Yes Phillips was fouled the other couple of times at set-pieces but in that instance he came for it and missed it, no infringement whatsoever in my eyes just basic keeper error.

Ward lost it, about a minute later one of their guys went straight through the back of Christophe and only a free kick was given - it was definitely at least a yellow card bare minimum.

Having gone through the promotion system as a referee I can confidently state that Ward will have been crucified by his assessor after the game so that's something we can all comfort ourselves with. I'm not surprised Tilly was livid, if they had equalised with that chance in stoppage time I think Tilly could well have been looking at a long touchline ban and a large fine cos he'd have absolutely done his nut!!

 

[Angell Delight]

A good case study on this one is the Barnet away Cup-tie at Old Trafford when Richard Beeby ruined the match and the day out for 5,000 Barnet fans (where have they gone now?) by sending their keeper off for catching a bouncing ball just outside the area where there was no goal threat after anout 4 minutes.

In that instance a yellow card would have been correct if there was no goal threat, but in terms of Saturday how Phillips got away with it beggars belief!!!

Anyone else see him smirking with his team mate as he walks away after the yellow card? Virgin highlights here:

http://www.football.virginmedia.com...ideoIndex/0,,12555,00.html?mvnAssetId=3492441