screwed up by the loan system ... .... .... ..

[Rayleigh boy]

i remember the demand on this board for Tilson to get some decent players in and to use the loan system (which I hate) to our advanatge.....

and hes done well in attracting some quality young players .... who then have to learn how to play in real games against experienced pros with a lot at stake ...

AND this means we end up with no shape, no core and in a way no idea where we are going -

at Millwall away we started with Grant and Moussa in the middle and were looking good for three points - but both these players have not developed as all the loanees have come in -

left side midfield - seems like SUFC does not have a player in this position and does not intend to get one either - just getting a loanee in -
and another one and another one ..... go to fill that position properly...


Christophe - ok so hes good enough that we want him BUT whre the EFf is he ? Hes gone back .... but hes coming back - in and out the team - so disruptive ...

And what about the Billy BIG bollox who think they are too good for SUFC (Federricci - let in a load of goals but made it clear hes way too good for here) ...and Lee Sawyer ?? How good is it for the squad having "guest" players around .....

And Milsom has been carried for 2 whole games .....cos a bit of fancy this and that talent might look fab in the reserves but in a mans world he can't take the pace -- two games for Fulham to find out his limitations and for us to lose 6 points

No doubt some good players (HRK, Sawyer, Federricci, JC) have been in the shirt as a result of the loan system but it has destroyed the shape of the team and teh progression of a our squad as a whole -

Tilly would have been damned if he didn't play the loan market and now that he has hes got a disjointed and unfocused squad .....

 

[Richard_Cadette]

Interesting point, especially when you refer to the calls from fans to bring players in on loan over the last couple of seasons to help our plight.

For me, our need to bring in players on loan was greatest when we were struggling at the foot of the Championship with a small squad, and an ever smaller skills set to pick from. We desperatly needed some help from wherever we could get it, and had we of brought some quality players in on loan, it may have made the difference between us staying up or getting relegated.

This season, however, it's a toally different ball game. Instead of using the loan market to compliment what you already have, we're using it as a basis for almost an entire team. Loan players should be used as a stop gap for when you have players injured, suspended or generally low on form. You can even use it so you can try before you buy, but it appears to me that we are using it because there is a reluctance to bring players in permanently.

You're absolutely right though, we now have a situation where players have gone back to their parent clubs, and we are left with a disjointed and unstelled side, and one we can do little to asisst until January.

I think we have all seen that loan players can add a huge benefit to your team, but for the reasons you have pointed out, they can also cause some real problems.

 

[Reg Martin]

i remember the demand on this board for Tilson to get some decent players in and to use the loan system (which I hate) to our advanatge.....

and hes done well in attracting some quality young players .... who then have to learn how to play in real games against experienced pros with a lot at stake ...

AND this means we end up with no shape, no core and in a way no idea where we are going -

at Millwall away we started with Grant and Moussa in the middle and were looking good for three points - but both these players have not developed as all the loanees have come in -

left side midfield - seems like SUFC does not have a player in this position and does not intend to get one either - just getting a loanee in -
and another one and another one ..... go to fill that position properly...


Christophe - ok so hes good enough that we want him BUT whre the EFf is he ? Hes gone back .... but hes coming back - in and out the team - so disruptive ...

And what about the Billy BIG bollox who think they are too good for SUFC (Federricci - let in a load of goals but made it clear hes way too good for here) ...and Lee Sawyer ?? How good is it for the squad having "guest" players around .....

And Milsom has been carried for 2 whole games .....cos a bit of fancy this and that talent might look fab in the reserves but in a mans world he can't take the pace -- two games for Fulham to find out his limitations and for us to lose 6 points

No doubt some good players (HRK, Sawyer, Federricci, JC) have been in the shirt as a result of the loan system but it has destroyed the shape of the team and teh progression of a our squad as a whole -

Tilly would have been damned if he didn't play the loan market and now that he has hes got a disjointed and unfocused squad .....

Some really good points in there especially that last point.

 

[uncle dan]

loan players

Does that mean that Southend should only look for experienced pros to come in on loan ??? as there are not too many of those sort of players available you are only going to attract youngsters that require games that they are not getting at their parent club . Players like milsom will need time to adjust to playing against league one opposition when skill is maybe not so high on the agenda and coming from training in fulhams first team to playing in league one is bound to be a culture shock but given time im sure these players will be of tremendous benefit to the southend cause .

 

[HudsonNo1]

Does that mean that Southend should only look for experienced pros to come in on loan ??? as there are not too many of those sort of players available you are only going to attract youngsters that require games that they are not getting at their parent club . Players like milsom will need time to adjust to playing against league one opposition when skill is maybe not so high on the agenda and coming from training in fulhams first team to playing in league one is bound to be a culture shock but given time im sure these players will be of tremendous benefit to the southend cause .

Times something we cant afford to give these youngsters from other teams, if their not good enough then that is that IMO get them out or just keep them hanging around incase of injury problems. I dont see why we should give time to players who could potentially make match deciding mistakes, all to send them back at the end of the loan period.

 

[Southend_Lady]

I think we have been completely screwed up by the loan system. However, I do not think that we could have avoided using this system to get us by. It was a catch 22 situaion.

We lost some indispensible players in the summer and as everyone knows we don't have the funds to get replacements for the Gowers, Freddy's and Bailey's that we loose. It unfortunately one of many down of a club of our size. If we ever find a gem be it in the loan market or otherwise - they are taken from under our nose before we can even think about getting them a tracksuit.

I think we all saw this slump coming as the loanees were performing fantastically with thread after thread of "will we sign XXXX". We were never going to get pen to paper, whether we could afford them or not.

Hard to see where Tilson and Co couldv'e made better decisions. I think getting in players that we have sod all chance of signing is a no-go. I said this when Federici was having a blinder. We became accustomed to having these great players when realistically we were never going to hold on to them. It's like borrowing your rich mates BMW for the day only to have to give it back and get back into your clapped out Fiesta and then wonder why you can't compete with the bog boys on the motorways.

 

[Angell Delight]

i remember the demand on this board for Tilson to get some decent players in and to use the loan system (which I hate) to our advanatge.....

and hes done well in attracting some quality young players .... who then have to learn how to play in real games against experienced pros with a lot at stake ...

AND this means we end up with no shape, no core and in a way no idea where we are going -

at Millwall away we started with Grant and Moussa in the middle and were looking good for three points - but both these players have not developed as all the loanees have come in -

left side midfield - seems like SUFC does not have a player in this position and does not intend to get one either - just getting a loanee in -
and another one and another one ..... go to fill that position properly...


Christophe - ok so hes good enough that we want him BUT whre the EFf is he ? Hes gone back .... but hes coming back - in and out the team - so disruptive ...

And what about the Billy BIG bollox who think they are too good for SUFC (Federricci - let in a load of goals but made it clear hes way too good for here) ...and Lee Sawyer ?? How good is it for the squad having "guest" players around .....

And Milsom has been carried for 2 whole games .....cos a bit of fancy this and that talent might look fab in the reserves but in a mans world he can't take the pace -- two games for Fulham to find out his limitations and for us to lose 6 points

No doubt some good players (HRK, Sawyer, Federricci, JC) have been in the shirt as a result of the loan system but it has destroyed the shape of the team and teh progression of a our squad as a whole -

Tilly would have been damned if he didn't play the loan market and now that he has hes got a disjointed and unfocused squad .....

Firstly you can't blame Tilly for Christophe's return to Pompey. Jeff was initially only signed as cover for a month until Macca returned. The fact he then started turning in some great performances led to his loan being extended. It's not Tilly fault that he had to return after the maximum 93 days, it's League rules. Once you take someone on a month's loan (which we did for Jeff as cover) you can't then turn that into a season-long loan deal - the maximum time allowed for that stint is 93 days. As it happens we haven't been without Jeff for any more games than we would have anyway as he got injured and is still recovering.

With regards Federici he showed during his time here that he was a calss above any keeper we've had since Royce and was definitely far too good for League One - it wasn't his fault the defence has on the whole been a shambles this season. However I never saw any articles/interviews etc with him stating he was too good for us, infact just before his second month's loan expired he said on the OS he'd definitely stay if we wanted him for a 3rd month.

In terms of Grant and Moussa I agree with what you're saying but I'm afraid I can't agree on the two other players above.

What we desperately need is another centre-back who is commanding in the air and another right-back to put pressure on Francis (cos Sankofa clearly isn't or Francis' inept displays would've seen him dropped by now). If we could nab players for these 2 positions plus try and get Sawyer in permanently in January the play-offs aren't yet out of reach.

 

[RobM]

Just out of interest - do other clubs in our division use 4 or 5 loan players in the same team?

 

[HudsonNo1]

Just out of interest - do other clubs in our division use 4 or 5 loan players in the same team?

The only other team i can think of without looking into it is Norwich in the championship, their team is based on loanee's

 

[steveo]

Perhaps rather than young loanees, we would be better looking at experienced players who can do a job in the short term - e.g. Freedman. People will say its not good for the future but loanees who play for a few months and leave have the same effect.
At least these blokes would be playing for next years contract rather than playing for a place in their original team.

 

[Irate Ian]

The only other team i can think of without looking into it is Norwich in the championship, their team is based on loanee's

Not sure if still do, but a few seasons ago Plymouth also and very succesful they were/are too. Small town club, thriving on loan players, punching far above their weight.

 

[chapperzUK]

By saying this you are saying you could do a better job? Loanees have come in to replace injuries you idiot. Sawyer to replace Macca, Christophe to replace Moussa, Federici to replace Mildenhall, Harding so we have a good LB, HRK so we have a good LM. Screwed up? If we didn't have any of these players in then we would be playing Herd all the time (who is not League 1 standard), an inexperienced goalkeeper, 2 very young centre mids from our reserves who would not be league 1 standard at all. If anything we are screwed up by the fact we have poor finances that do not enable us to buy players over 50k (apart from Walker for 100k which could have been spent more wisely!) and selling players when we get a half decent offer in!

 

[Southend_Lady]

By saying this you are saying you could do a better job? Loanees have come in to replace injuries you idiot. Sawyer to replace Macca, Christophe to replace Moussa, Federici to replace Mildenhall, Harding so we have a good LB, HRK so we have a good LM. Screwed up? If we didn't have any of these players in then we would be playing Herd all the time (who is not League 1 standard), an inexperienced goalkeeper, 2 very young centre mids from our reserves who would not be league 1 standard at all. If anything we are screwed up by the fact we have poor finances that do not enable us to buy players over 50k (apart from Walker for 100k which could have been spent more wisely!) and selling players when we get a half decent offer in!

I think you may have picked up the stick and grabbed on to the wrong end old chap.

He doesn't mean that we have literally been screwed by getting in loan players. He means that because of the way the loan system works - in that you don't always get the player at the end etc etc - it has screwed us over.

Of course without these loanees we would be far further in the brown stuff - there's no doubt in that. It's just that we have done ourselves over by taking on so many loanees, having them all gel and play extremely well, and then the majority go back leaving us with a disjointed, ungelled and dysfunctional squad.

 

[RobM]

"Of course without these loanees we would be far further in the brown stuff - there's no doubt in that. It's just that we have done ourselves over by taking on so many loanees, having them all gel and play extremely well, and then the majority go back leaving us with a disjointed, ungelled and dysfunctional squad."

Exactly. The fact that we used 5 loanees at once shows how weak our squad is at the moment.

 

[sufcintheprem]

RB, this is one of those unfortunate times where you need a real life example to say to people, "I told you so".