Shamima Bequm-Return or not ?

[mattitouk]

That’s an interesting stat, is that an average of 10 years or a maximum, and what charges ? I don’t expect to to remember to be fair, if you can find your source that may well explain the numbers .

No idea mate, i only know the average term served for those custodian sentences, is 7 years.

Edit...

Im not like others, that like to claim "they know".. but i read it on a "fact checker website"

 

[Cricko]

Why would we want to pay out untold amounts of money in a court case for some sort of legal rights ( she has none she joined ISIS) that would drag on for years in defense of this woman and we would be picking up her bill.?

 

[mattitouk]

Why would we want to pay out untold amounts of money in a court case for some sort of legal rights ( she has none she joined ISIS) that would drag on for years in defense off this woman and we would be picking up her bill.?

Correct me if i'm wrong... (probably am?)

Not wanted to involve a brexit thing in this thread... but if we string this out until we have left in April, won't these laws be decided by British law and cant no longer be appealed by the ECJ?

 

[Firestorm]

No idea mate, i only know the average term served for those custodian sentences, is 7 years.

Cheats 7 years average time served. So some served more than 7 others less , that, given the 50% off figure used that would mean that the average sentence was 14 years.
Were she to get that Average and given her lack of remorse she will be away for a good 10 then....once found guilty.

Not sure how being a minor at the time of the offence would be used, I suppose if used in defence a threat of a child neglect charge against her parents, might stop that in her tracks , although pleading not guilty would effect later sentencing...

 

[rigsby]

Why would we want to pay out untold anounts of money in a court case for some sort of legal rights ( she has none she joined ISIS) that would drag on for years in defense off this woman and we would be picking up her bill.?

Because Tony Blairs wife, Nick Clegg's wife, Emily Thornberry's husband etc have all made money and lots of it from 'human rights' cases.

If the criminally poor are a gold mine to the rich, what are terrorists?

 

[Bielzibubz]

As far as I'm concerned when she decided to go fight for IS against her own country knowing full well what she was getting into (she wasn't blind to what was going on in the news) she gave up any right she ever had to being able to call herself British. She is a traitor to this country, it's people, it's democratic norms and everything we stand for.

Would some of you be saying the same should she be 15 years older, a male and go by the name of Oswald Molesley. No, of course not.

 

[Firestorm]

Why would we want to pay out untold anounts of money in a court case for some sort of legal rights ( she has none she joined ISIS) that would drag on for years in defense of this woman and we would be picking up her bill.?

Why would a criminal case drag on for years , particularly as there appears to be significant documented argument should she plead not guilty?

 

[Bielzibubz]

Because Tony Blairs wife, Nick Clegg's wife, Emily Thornberry's husband etc have all made money and lots of it from 'human rights' cases.

If the criminally poor are a gold mine to the rich, what are terrorists?

The longer a trial can be dragged out the more a defence barrister can cream out of it. Exactly why those that do get on the whole human rights defence bandwagon. For moralistic grounds my arse. It's all about the money.

 

[Firestorm]

As far as I'm concerned when she decided to go fight for IS against her own country knowing full well what she was getting into (she wasn't blind to what was going on in the news) she gave up any right she ever had to being able to call herself British. She is a traitor to this country, it's people, it's democratic norms and everything we stand for.

Would some of you be saying the same should she be 15 years older, a male and go by the name of Oswald Molesley. No, of course not.

Moseley was foung guilty in a british court and served 3 years. If you are only putting her on a par with that, I would say you are on her side.

 

[Firestorm]

The longer a trial can be dragged out the more a defence barrister can cream out of it. Exactly why those that do get on the whole human rights defence bandwagon. For moralistic grounds my arse. It's all about the money.

A human rights court is different to a criminal court though. If there was a human rights defence for being in a banned organisation (one of the potential charges) surely the far right bloke and his wife would have used it last year ?

 

[Cricko]

Why would a criminal case drag on for years , particularly as there appears to be significant documented argument should she plead not guilty?

Adjem Choudary is a classic example..Guity as **** ,took forever to convict him. Now another radical you want us to give time and rights to.

 

[rigsby]

the pol

Cheats 7 years average time served. So some served more than 7 others less , that, given the 50% off figure used that would mean that the average sentence was 14 years.
Were she to get that Average and given her lack of remorse she will be away for a good 10 then....once found guilty.

Not sure how being a minor at the time of the offence would be used, I suppose if used in defence a threat of a child neglect charge against her parents, might stop that in her tracks , although pleading not guilty would effect later sentencing...

In a recent TV featured case in Surrey, a man posing as a 16 year old child refugee raped and murdered a woman. He was facing just 8 years as a minor rather than 24 as an adult. For the police is was a race against time to prove his age using dental age analysis.

They managed to prove he was around 22 years of age with one day to spare. Incredibly once he was sentenced it would have been to late to change the tariff.

 

[Bielzibubz]

Moseley was foung guilty in a british court and served 3 years. If you are only putting her on a par with that, I would say you are on her side.

No i'm not comparing the two. I'm using it as an analogy against defending the indefensible. Nothing more

 

[Bielzibubz]

A human rights court is different to a criminal court though. If there was a human rights defence for being in a banned organisation (one of the potential charges) surely the far right bloke and his wife would have used it last year ?

I think I'm right in saying she can claim it's a violation of her human rights by denying her access to the benefits of the country of her birth........ I think but wait to be corrected.

 

[rigsby]

No i'm not comparing the two. I'm using it as an analogy against defending the indefensible. Nothing more

There is youtube clip of Moseley being interviewed on ITV in about 1975 (who would have thought possible)…...Comes across quite well.

 

[Firestorm]

C

Adjem Choudary is a classic example..Guity as **** ,took forever to convict him. Now another radical you want us to give time and rights to.

Choudrys court case took 4 weeks it took ages to prepare a case, that’s not anything to do with defence lawyers

 

[Cricko]

C

Choudrys court case took 4 weeks it took ages to prepare a case, that’s not anything to do with defence lawyers

And how much did it cost to get him to court?

 

[rigsby]

Anyway now we are 7 pages in and have all had a good look at her lets lighten things up and have another poll....Would you?.....I mean even though you know her background? and would it make any difference?

 

[Firestorm]

I think I'm right in saying she can claim it's a violation of her human rights by denying her access to the benefits of the country of her birth........ I think but wait to be corrected.

I have seen that used to take someone to court for a breach of human rights. I am struggling to see if being a viable defence in a criminal charge being in a proscribed organisation? Surely that would have been the ideal recourse for Adam Thomas last year

 

[Firestorm]

And how much did it cost to get him to court?

Dunno , but the original post specifically said a court case would drag on for years . That was where I was coming from , not the competence of a prosecution case