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RPG

Guest
I do not understand why so many fans seem willing to write this season off and are therefore not bothered by our current form. Many fans are almost willing us to get relegated just so the club can return to the days of playing Macclesfield / Barnet and attracting 3500 people a game.

We are a different club to that of 3 years ago our support has more than doubled. We are also attracting a large number of young fans who are attracted to the club by us playing the high profile clubs in the division. A proportion of these fans would have supported a London Premiership side if we had not been proted to the Championship. (When I was at school 25 years ago 99% of children supported a London side I am not sure if this will be the case now). It is therefore of fundemental importance that we stay in this division.

We are also in a far larger catchment area than most clubs in this division. The area surrounding Southend including Basidon Benfleet and Chelmsford has a population of over 1 million people. OK Southend has not got the history associated with many clubs but we should be attracting 15,000 + a game. If we are relegated I expect our attandancies will drop to 5,000!

Tilson has been excellent for us over the past couple of seasons however he is clearly not up to Managing a Championship side. We need to bring in an experienced Manager ie Worthington to at the very least assist Tilson as a Director of football and have responsibility for transfers. Based on the players Tilson has signed so far I personaly would worry on how for example Tilson would spend the money we would get for Eastwood.
 

J

The Chameleon
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
7,576
applause of the highest order.. for you sir
 
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
1,145
FFS Not again. Please change the record. This is nothing less than Chinese water torture.
tounge.gif
 

OiRef

Guest
Part and parcel of supporting a club like Southend is that you have to suffer the bad times as well as enjoying the good times. This is the first taste of the dry side of the toast for many of our newer supporters and whilst I can appreciate you not liking it get used to it ! Like it not, this is what supporting Southend is like, so get off Tilly's back and give him, and the team, the support that you so easily give at Swansea and against Man U. Anyone can support a successful team, but real supporters support their team no matter how hard or uncomfortable the ride becomes !
 

Jam_Man

Life President
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
25,545
Location
Southend
[b said:
Quote[/b] (RPG @ Dec. 04 2006,13:39)]I do not understand why so many fans seem willing to write this season off and are therefore not bothered by our current form.
Thank god, a tilson out thread, havent had one of those in hours.

As to the comment Ive quoted you on, realistically we have little chance of staying up now.

It therefore makes sense to accept the inevitable rather than tear your hair out in frustration week in week out for the rest op the season.

If we were 3 points adrift Id be more hopeful, but 11 points from safety (incl GD) theres nothing to hold onto.

The fact is replacing Tilson will achieve nothing. We will still go down.
 

Shrimp in a Kilt

Guest
I was with you until the last paragraph, and then you lost me.

Gamble some cash in January to try and turn the season around, must be a bit from the cup run, but please don't start calling for Tilly's head or for someone to come in over him. It has never worked.
 

The 4th man

First XI
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Messages
362
Spoken by someone who of course choices to have selective memory of past events and ignores its lessons.

1) Our biggest problem in the past was instability. Changing the manager ever 5 minuites ensure we had no base to build from . (Im sure any builders on here while point out quickstand or a swamp makes very poor groundings
2) We went into freefall once before , THERE IS NOTHING TO SUGGEST THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN !!!
If we lose Tilly and Brush it will only add to the likleyhood of it occuring it will not remove the problem .
3) No one wants to come here . Simple , players , managers etc . Untill we develope the economic structure to moudle into a self sustaining entity (and that means leaving Roots Hall) we are not going to attract new "investment" .
To use a military anlogey we're a Blitzgrege with no supply line . Thats sorry we just cant win this one


Good leaders learn from their victories great ones understand and accept defeat.

Knee jerk shortsightedness will not resolve or make this any better !!!
 

DTS

The Business
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
16,173
Location
In a world of my own.
[b said:
Quote[/b] (RPG @ Dec. 04 2006,13:39)]Tilson has been excellent for us over the past couple of seasons however he is clearly not up to Managing a Championship side. We need to bring in an experienced Manager ie Worthington to at the very least assist Tilson as a Director of football and have responsibility for transfers. Based on the players Tilson has signed so far I personaly would worry on how for example Tilson would spend the money we would get for Eastwood.
Everything else except this load of bollocks I am 110% with you.
sad.gif
 

DTS

The Business
Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
16,173
Location
In a world of my own.
[b said:
Quote[/b] (The 4th man @ Dec. 04 2006,14:13)]Spoken by someone who of course choices to have selective memory of past events and ignores its lessons.

1) Our biggest problem in the past was instability. Changing the manager ever 5 minuites ensure we had no base to build from . (Im sure any builders on here while point out quickstand or a swamp makes very poor groundings
2) We went into freefall once before , THERE IS NOTHING TO SUGGEST THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN !!!
If we lose Tilly and Brush it will only add to the likleyhood of it occuring it will not remove the problem .
3) No one wants to come here . Simple , players , managers etc . Untill we develope the economic structure to moudle into a self sustaining entity (and that means leaving Roots Hall) we are not going to attract new "investment" .
To use a military anlogey we're a Blitzgrege with no supply line . Thats sorry we just cant win this one


Good leaders learn from their victories great ones understand and accept defeat.

Knee jerk shortsightedness will not resolve or make this any better !!!
Spot on - Top post...Top of the class....
smile.gif
 

Prodigal Son

Manager
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
1,525
Location
South East Essex in the Hills
[b said:
Quote[/b] (RPG @ Dec. 04 2006,13:39)]I do not understand why so many fans seem willing to write this season off and are therefore not bothered by our current form. Many fans are almost willing us to get relegated just so the club can return to the days of playing Macclesfield / Barnet and attracting 3500 people a game.

We are a different club to that of 3 years ago our support has more than doubled. We are also attracting a large number of young fans who are attracted to the club by us playing the high profile clubs in the division. A proportion of these fans would have supported a London Premiership side if we had not been proted to the Championship. (When I was at school 25 years ago 99% of children supported a London side I am not sure if this will be the case now). It is therefore of fundemental importance that we stay in this division.

We are also in a far larger catchment area than most clubs in this division. The area surrounding Southend including Basidon Benfleet and Chelmsford has a population of over 1 million people. OK Southend has not got the history associated with many clubs but we should be attracting 15,000 + a game. If we are relegated I expect our attandancies will drop to 5,000!

Tilson has been excellent for us over the past couple of seasons however he is clearly not up to Managing a Championship side. We need to bring in an experienced Manager ie Worthington to at the very least assist Tilson as a Director of football and have responsibility for transfers. Based on the players Tilson has signed so far I personaly would worry on how for example Tilson would spend the money we would get for Eastwood.
Loved your first paragraph, alot of fans look forward to staying in the pub until 2-58pm, getting a parking spot no problem, having a row of seats to themselves,etc. But that makes for an unsuccessful club. It does not make for good fottball,atmoshere ,etc.

Your last paragraph is the big question. Personally, I would stick with the existing management but if we are considered down,start to experiment, play Moussa,Lawson,Hooper, never play Prior again because he won't be here next season regardless.
 

Kenny

Thailand Shrimper
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
3,692
Location
Bangkok
with Hull sacking Parky today that means all of our relegation "rivals"* have pulled the trigger. With Leicester getting thumped 4-1 at home by Sheff Wed on Saturday I can see the heat increasing on Rob Kelly. The difference with those clubs being of course the fan expectations are higher then ours.

*(not much rivalry when they're getting further away!)
 

Jonesy tap-in

Youth Team
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Messages
231
Bookmakers have us as odds-on favourites for the drop (average odds of 1/10) so it looks fairly inevitable (obviously not saying we should give up or stop fighting or anything).

But, that said, with reference to Tilly being in charge, he does have a very good record of management in League 1 - ie played one season, finished 1st. (Admittedly, I do take Matt the Shrimp's well-put post on another thread about the influence of Eastwood on our promotion last season though and the points we won us almost single-handedly). He will also have some experience of what it would take to keep a team in the Championship.

IMHO, I don't believe anyone else could get out of this situation, nor do I believe that Tilly is the square root of the problem. I definitely think he should stay.

What's interesting, though, in reference to what RPG and Prodigal Son, among others, have mentioned, is about some people wanting Southend to go back to being a small club again. While I don't consciously want us to go back to the lower echelons again, there is a certain romance about supporting a small team. You feel a lot closer to the players, you feel a lot more part of the club and you feel like you have a greater degree of ownership. There's also a certain kudos that you get from other fans for supporting small hometown clubs. I know I certainly enjoyed supporting Southend when in Leagues 1 & 2, when you knew you could always get a ticket etc, and especially at the first LDV, to see half the stadium in the blue of Southend, a small club, just blew me away.

Obviously I'm not saying that people actively want Southend to go back to League 2, but I can partly understand where such sub-conscious desires might come from.
 

TrueBlue

Save Our Southend
Joined
Oct 26, 2003
Messages
22,721
Location
Hockley now on loan to Rayleigh
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Jam_Man @ Dec. 04 2006,14:13)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (RPG @ Dec. 04 2006,13:39)]I do not understand why so many fans seem willing to write this season off and are therefore not bothered by our current form.
Thank god, a tilson out thread, havent had one of those in hours.

As to the comment Ive quoted you on, realistically we have little chance of staying up now.

It therefore makes sense to accept the inevitable rather than tear your hair out in frustration week in week out for the rest op the season.

If we were 3 points adrift Id be more hopeful, but 11 points from safety (incl GD) theres nothing to hold onto.

The fact is replacing Tilson will achieve nothing. We will still go down.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The fact is replacing Tilson will achieve nothing. We will still go down.

Never know mite get somebody in with BOTTLE!!!!!
 

The Sudden In Out

Guest
The silence of exclamation. The clamour of explanation. Hence choice is a defining reason for being. The option to champion a particular frame of opinion is one that interprets the very existence of our psyche. If someone chooses to opt for resignation and relegation then so be it; it does not make them a lesser person. However opponents to a particular avenue of thought should adhere to the concept of acquiescence; the beauty of existence is the parody of choice viz-a-viz the element of decision. Leave it be and the debate longs for retribution.

J.
 

The Fitter

Coach
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
860
Location
Shoeburyness
[b said:
Quote[/b] (The Sudden In Out @ Dec. 04 2006,16:58)]The silence of exclamation. The clamour of explanation. Hence choice is a defining reason for being. The option to champion a particular frame of opinion is one that interprets the very existence of our psyche. If someone chooses to opt for resignation and relegation then so be it; it does not make them a lesser person. However opponents to a particular avenue of thought should adhere to the concept of acquiescence; the beauty of existence is the parody of choice viz-a-viz the element of decision. Leave it be and the debate longs for retribution.

J.
Just beat me to it.  
tounge.gif
 

RPG

Guest
[b said:
Quote[/b] (The 4th man @ Dec. 04 2006,14:13)]Spoken by someone who of course choices to have selective memory of past events and ignores its lessons.

1) Our biggest problem in the past was instability. Changing the manager ever 5 minuites ensure we had no base to build from . (Im sure any builders on here while point out quickstand or a swamp makes very poor groundings
2) We went into freefall once before , THERE IS NOTHING TO SUGGEST THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN !!!
If we lose Tilly and Brush it will only add to the likleyhood of it occuring it will not remove the problem .
3) No one wants to come here . Simple , players , managers etc . Untill we develope the economic structure to moudle into a self sustaining entity (and that means leaving Roots Hall) we are not going to attract new "investment" .
To use a military anlogey we're a Blitzgrege with no supply line . Thats sorry we just cant win this one


Good leaders learn from their victories great ones understand and accept defeat.

Knee jerk shortsightedness will not resolve or make this any better !!!
I accept that Tilson is unlikely to go before the end of the season however IMO (reasons stated on previous posts) he has been poor this seaon. It is not too late to salvage the season however there must be a change to the Management / coaching set up before Christmas. A Director of football could be the answer.

1) Agree to a point however bringing in a Director of football is not changing a Manager. Also most clubs that do change Managers (after Manager sacked) improve their positions. 5 years ago we appointed a succesion of inexperienced Managers (Martin, Whelan and Newman).
2) Look at the clubs relegated from the division last year. Are any challenging for promotion? NO!
3) How do you know? If Col******r and Barnsley can attract decent players on loan why can't we. I also expect that we could attract a Manager of Worthington's calibre who due to contacts / experience is more likely to attract players than Tilson (with his two years of experience).
 

Shrimp in a Kilt

Guest
[b said:
Quote[/b] (RPG @ Dec. 04 2006,22:08)]2) Look at the clubs relegated from the division last year. Are any challenging for promotion? NO!
Crewe are only just outside the playoffs and I would have said quite handily placed.
 

The 4th man

First XI
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Messages
362
[b said:
Quote[/b] (RPG @ Dec. 04 2006,22:08)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (The 4th man @ Dec. 04 2006,14:13)]Spoken by someone who of course choices to have selective memory of past events and ignores its lessons.

1) Our biggest problem in the past was instability. Changing the manager ever 5 minuites ensure we had no base to build from . (Im sure any builders on here while point out quickstand or a swamp makes very poor groundings
2) We went into freefall once before , THERE IS NOTHING TO SUGGEST THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN !!!
If we lose Tilly and Brush it will only add to the likleyhood of it occuring it will not remove the problem .
3) No one wants to come here . Simple , players , managers etc . Untill we develope the economic structure to moudle into a self sustaining entity (and that means leaving Roots Hall) we are not going to attract new "investment" .
To use a military anlogey we're a Blitzgrege with no supply line . Thats sorry we just cant win this one


Good leaders learn from their victories great ones understand and accept defeat.

Knee jerk shortsightedness will not resolve or make this any better !!!
I accept that Tilson is unlikely to go before the end of the season however IMO (reasons stated on previous posts) he has been poor this seaon. It is not too late to salvage the season however there must be a change to the Management / coaching set up before Christmas. A Director of football could be the answer.  

1) Agree to a point however bringing in a Director of football is not changing a Manager. Also most clubs that do change Managers (after Manager sacked) improve their positions. 5 years ago we appointed a succesion of inexperienced Managers (Martin, Whelan and Newman).
2) Look at the clubs relegated from the division last year. Are any challenging for promotion? NO!
3) How do you know? If Col******r and Barnsley can attract decent players on loan why can't we. I also expect that we could attract a Manager of Worthington's calibre who due to contacts / experience is more likely to attract players than Tilson (with his two years of experience).
1) "directors" of football as have previously pointed out do not work . Unless they are totaly hands off of the team , of which would be pointless in our case
2) Why would they ?? Their no worse for consoledating are they , none are fighting for relegation either (as pointed out Crewe are outside play offs) . Its also too early in the season to say for sure eitherway
3) From what has been said here , facilities and local enviroment. My Dad knows Paul Mersons brother who has said the same. Local area is a big factor if your coming to join and live near a club. At least sadly with Col Utd , 30 mins drive your in Constable country ! With us your near Basildon !
Not a hope , and even if we did they want money to do things with , which at the moment we propably don't have avaliable (or readily ).

As much as i hate to use Ferguson as an example , some one who in their first years was awrful , the club stuck with him and what happened .

We need a mixture of buisness and social balance here. Southend and the surrounding areas needs to be made aware what we have. But also we are competeing against other "buinessies" in this area . West Ham (for example the other big teams ), will never want to lose the lucrative "essex" market , because they sure as hell wont expand the London support ;)
 

sufcintheprem

This is a modified caption
Joined
Mar 26, 2004
Messages
10,185
Location
Putney
I think it will set an unhealthy precedent for future managers if we hold on to a manager only when he achieves the most that can be expected of him.

Imagine if, at work, you managed to double your output in one year. The boss would be well chuffed. Imagine if you doubled that in the second year. The boss would be ecstatic. Imagine if you then fell in productivity by 10%. Would the boss sack you when he knows you're capable of producing such impressive results?

One thing a lot of people have overlooked here is that the only team that went down and is now doing well is the one team that has stood by its manager.

Personally, I don't want yet another joke figure in the Martin/Whelan mould to laugh about in years to come.
 
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