This Seasons Signings

[Stats]

This post is not made as a knee jerk reaction to the Hull game, Its made 17 games into the season, long enough IMO to assess players on how they have performed.

I love Steve Tilson to bits but must say I think the majority of signings he's made over the summer have been poor. He's bought in some young players (exclude Ricketts waste of space) with good potential but what we really should of opted for was some old heads with championship experience. Yes majority of our signings have played at Championship level but have never been regulars.

I'll start with;

Simon Francis - Spent last season on loan at Tranmere IIRC playing against teams no better than us. Looks a bit one paced to me never seems to get out of 2nd gear. Has been at fault for numerous goals and is now playing right hand side of midfield.

Steve Hammell - Played for Motherwell in the SPL you would of thought that he could hold his own at this level. Obviously not, granted he can take a good set piece and we finally have a left footed left back but defensively he's poor and frequently caught out of position and doesnt talk enough to Barrett hence why confusion is caused aka Ian Moore's goal at Leeds.

Peter Clarke - £250k for a Centre half from a team that struggled in league one last season, IMHO we could of spent that money elsewhere and got better. Come from the books of a premiership club where they are taught to keep the ball on the floor and pass well yet he struggles with his distribution. Now being played in centre midfield alongside the defensive minded Maher. At £250k he should be a stone cert starter in the team but at the moment should be bench at best.

Billy Paynter - Again eyebrows were raised when we paid £200k for a man who wasnt a regular at Hull. Again that money could of probably be spent elsewhere and at the time when we bought him we should of been on the lookout for an experienced striker due to the fact Ricketts was showing signs of not wanting to play for us.

JCR - After seeing him last season it was evident to see the lad has bags of energy gets forward well but doesnt deliver an end product, same this season now finds himself on the bencg with a right back prefered in his position.

Matt Harrold and Gary Hooper have done ok since they have come to the club but I believe these are players that Tilson would only of imagined using from the bench. Steve Collis is untested yet.

The above are just my honest opinions, I hate negative posts but its hard at the moment to see anything positives on the pitch.

Dont get me wrong I'll get behind those players when they're on the pitch but we desparately need some new expierenced heads in to help the younger players otherwise we'll be praying for a miracle.

Stats

 

[Davros]

I will only disagree with you over Hammell.

From what iv'e seen of him i like his style of play, and he wins a lot in the air for someone often vertically lacking.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

If we are going to review our new signings, we should also take a look at the players who were with us last season.

Freddy has done OK (or rather he's done fantastic on the few occasions when he's had the service and support), Maher and Gower played well at the start of the season and I don't think anyone else has made a notable contribution.

 

[DTS]

Personally Hammell and Francis have been good signings I think - For me the jury is out on the rest....

 

[wiggy]

Quote[/b] (statski77 @ Nov. 01 2006,10:45)]This post is not made as a knee jerk reaction to the Hull game, Its made 17 games into the season, long enough IMO to assess players on how they have performed.

I love Steve Tilson to bits but must say I think the majority of signings he's made over the summer have been poor. He's bought in some young players (exclude Ricketts waste of space) with good potential but what we really should of opted for was some old heads with championship experience. Yes majority of our signings have played at Championship level but have never been regulars.

I'll start with;

Simon Francis - Spent last season on loan at Tranmere IIRC playing against teams no better than us. Looks a bit one paced to me never seems to get out of 2nd gear. Has been at fault for numerous goals and is now playing right hand side of midfield.

Steve Hammell - Played for Motherwell in the SPL you would of thought that he could hold his own at this level. Obviously not, granted he can take a good set piece and we finally have a left footed left back but defensively he's poor and frequently caught out of position and doesnt talk enough to Barrett hence why confusion is caused aka Ian Moore's goal at Leeds.

Peter Clarke - £250k for a Centre half from a team that struggled in league one last season, IMHO we could of spent that money elsewhere and got better. Come from the books of a premiership club where they are taught to keep the ball on the floor and pass well yet he struggles with his distribution. Now being played in centre midfield alongside the defensive minded Maher. At £250k he should be a stone cert starter in the team but at the moment should be bench at best.

Billy Paynter - Again eyebrows were raised when we paid £200k for a man who wasnt a regular at Hull. Again that money could of probably be spent elsewhere and at the time when we bought him we should of been on the lookout for an experienced striker due to the fact Ricketts was showing signs of not wanting to play for us.

JCR - After seeing him last season it was evident to see the lad has bags of energy gets forward well but doesnt deliver an end product, same this season now finds himself on the bencg with a right back prefered in his position.

Matt Harrold and Gary Hooper have done ok since they have come to the club but I believe these are players that Tilson would only of imagined using from the bench. Steve Collis is untested yet.

The above are just my honest opinions, I hate negative posts but its hard at the moment to see anything positives on the pitch.

Dont get me wrong I'll get behind those players when they're on the pitch but we desparately need some new expierenced heads in to help the younger players otherwise we'll be praying for a miracle.

Stats

Spot on, and as for those released and on loan, are these players any worse than above? Mitchell Cole, Michael Kightly, Mark Bentley, Jay Smith, James Lawson are all as good/better than the newcomers. Tilson and his scouts are obviously not the best judges around!

 

[Stats]

Quote[/b] (Dave the Shrimper @ Nov. 01 2006,10:59)]Personally Hammell and Francis have been good signings I think - For me the jury is out on the rest....

Those 2 are the best out of the bunch but primarily signed as defenders they are not mastering that art at the moment

We've conceeded a lot of goals this season due to poor defending down the flanks

 

[shrimper_sam]

Quote[/b] (wiggy @ Nov. 01 2006,11:05)]

Quote[/b] (statski77 @ Nov. 01 2006,10:45)]This post is not made as a knee jerk reaction to the Hull game, Its made 17 games into the season, long enough IMO to assess players on how they have performed.

I love Steve Tilson to bits but must say I think the majority of signings he's made over the summer have been poor. He's bought in some young players (exclude Ricketts waste of space) with good potential but what we really should of opted for was some old heads with championship experience. Yes majority of our signings have played at Championship level but have never been regulars.

I'll start with;

Simon Francis - Spent last season on loan at Tranmere IIRC playing against teams no better than us. Looks a bit one paced to me never seems to get out of 2nd gear. Has been at fault for numerous goals and is now playing right hand side of midfield.

Steve Hammell - Played for Motherwell in the SPL you would of thought that he could hold his own at this level. Obviously not, granted he can take a good set piece and we finally have a left footed left back but defensively he's poor and frequently caught out of position and doesnt talk enough to Barrett hence why confusion is caused aka Ian Moore's goal at Leeds.

Peter Clarke - £250k for a Centre half from a team that struggled in league one last season, IMHO we could of spent that money elsewhere and got better. Come from the books of a premiership club where they are taught to keep the ball on the floor and pass well yet he struggles with his distribution. Now being played in centre midfield alongside the defensive minded Maher. At £250k he should be a stone cert starter in the team but at the moment should be bench at best.

Billy Paynter - Again eyebrows were raised when we paid £200k for a man who wasnt a regular at Hull. Again that money could of probably be spent elsewhere and at the time when we bought him we should of been on the lookout for an experienced striker due to the fact Ricketts was showing signs of not wanting to play for us.

JCR - After seeing him last season it was evident to see the lad has bags of energy gets forward well but doesnt deliver an end product, same this season now finds himself on the bencg with a right back prefered in his position.

Matt Harrold and Gary Hooper have done ok since they have come to the club but I believe these are players that Tilson would only of imagined using from the bench. Steve Collis is untested yet.

The above are just my honest opinions, I hate negative posts but its hard at the moment to see anything positives on the pitch.

Dont get me wrong I'll get behind those players when they're on the pitch but we desparately need some new expierenced heads in to help the younger players otherwise we'll be praying for a miracle.

Stats

Spot on, and as for those released and on loan, are these players any worse than above?   Mitchell Cole, Michael Kightly, Mark Bentley, Jay Smith, James Lawson are all as good/better than the newcomers. Tilson and his scouts are obviously not the best judges around!

No one was saying that when we got Freddy where they. Infact they said the opposite. Also Micheal kightly left 2-3 years ago. James Lawson is also back, and i have seen him play and i don't think at the moment anyway he is good enough for the championship. I'm sorry Bently struggled to make it into the first team last season, He would be doing what Jay Smith does and thats keeping the bench warm. Whether this is right or wrong, That is the truth. I do believe we need extra quality in the side, but until we do i shall continue to get behind the boys.

Keep the faith. Apart from the north bank, there really wasn't that much noise at the hall last night. Get behind them, Lets help the team get there confidence back!

All the best

 

[Ricey]

Quote[/b] (Dave the Shrimper @ Nov. 01 2006,10:59)]Personally Hammell and Francis have been good signings I think - For me the jury is out on the rest....

I have to agree you with on that one!

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (wiggy @ Nov. 01 2006,11:05)]Tilson and his scouts are obviously not the best judges around!

Bore off, wiggy. You're rapidly becoming cheerleader-in-chief for the Tilson Out brigade - and that makes you a total prat in my book.

You keep going on about Jay Smith, for instance, and yet it appears entirely to have escaped your attention that he got injured in his first training session at Notts County. Talk about you living in the past! Take off the rose-tinteds about Mr. Smith, love. Warren Goodhind finished his career - end of.

We may be playing poorly. I may even agree with you that Guttridge is flattering to deceive right now. But what's the point in slating the manager - what are you trying to achieve except to drive him out of the club?

 

[shrimperbhoy]

Quote[/b] (Dave the Shrimper @ Nov. 01 2006,10:59)]Personally Hammell and Francis have been good signings I think - For me the jury is out on the rest....

I agree on these two.

Deep down, I think Clarke may come good too.

 

[wiggy]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Nov. 01 2006,13:18)]

Quote[/b] (wiggy @ Nov. 01 2006,11:05)]Tilson and his scouts are obviously not the best judges around!

Bore off, wiggy.  You're rapidly becoming cheerleader-in-chief for the Tilson Out brigade - and that makes you a total prat in my book.

You keep going on about Jay Smith, for instance, and yet it appears entirely to have escaped your attention that he got injured in his first training session at Notts County.  Talk about you living in the past!  Take off the rose-tinteds about Mr. Smith, love.  Warren Goodhind finished his career - end of.

We may be playing poorly.  I may even agree with you that Guttridge is flattering to deceive right now.  But what's the point in slating the manager - what are you trying to achieve except to drive him out of the club?

You put up with anything, was you there last night? Another masterstroke from Tilson, playing Clarke in midfield, Francis on the wing, it just don't work. You are the bore, endless pages of drivel nearly all licking up to the management. Don't you think he has had enough clues early on to sort out the negative midfield mess by now. Priority weeks ago should have been a supply line for our only asset Freddy but as usual nothing happened. I don't want Tilly out but his lack of ideas and contacts gets a bit waring after a while, even you must see that!

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (wiggy @ Nov. 01 2006,14:15)]Another masterstroke from Tilson, playing Clarke in midfield, Francis on the wing, it just don't work. You are the bore, endless pages of drivel nearly all licking up to the management. Don't you  think he has had enough clues early on to sort out the negative midfield mess by now. Priority weeks ago should have been a supply line for our only asset Freddy but as usual nothing happened. I don't want Tilly out but his lack of ideas and contacts gets a bit waring after a while, even you must see that!

I happen to agree with many of your points, but it's the conclusions you seem to allude to that really grate.

I agree that Clarke is no good as a midfielder. I agree that Francis has struggled at right back and that playing him as a midfielder isn't working. I agree that Gutts has been hugely disappointing in recent weeks. I've been saying for the last two months that we needed more cover in midfield, but why should you let that fact get in the way of you handing out another insult? (Oh and that's truly your forte, incidentally.)

But we are where we are. I'm not ******* up to the management by saying that. I'm just admitting that we are the minnows in this league, and it was always going to be difficult.

You seem to be saying that because Tilly's signings have been poor, that maybe it's time to look at getting in a new manager.

If that's not right, then what are you suggesting we do? And don't say "Jay Smith" because he's injured. Again.

 

[wiggy]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Nov. 01 2006,14:22)]

Quote[/b] (wiggy @ Nov. 01 2006,14:15)]Another masterstroke from Tilson, playing Clarke in midfield, Francis on the wing, it just don't work. You are the bore, endless pages of drivel nearly all licking up to the management. Don't you  think he has had enough clues early on to sort out the negative midfield mess by now. Priority weeks ago should have been a supply line for our only asset Freddy but as usual nothing happened. I don't want Tilly out but his lack of ideas and contacts gets a bit waring after a while, even you must see that!

I happen to agree with many of your points, but it's the conclusions you seem to allude to that really grate.

I agree that Clarke is no good as a midfielder.  I agree that Francis has struggled at right back and that playing him as a midfielder isn't working.  I agree that Gutts has been hugely disappointing in recent weeks.  I've been saying for the last two months that we needed more cover in midfield, but why should you let that fact get in the way of you handing out another insult? (Oh and that's truly your forte, incidentally.)

But we are where we are.  I'm not ******* up to the management by saying that.  I'm just admitting that we are the minnows in this league, and it was always going to be difficult.

You seem to be saying that because Tilly's signings have been poor, that maybe it's time to look at getting in a new manager.

If that's not right, then what are you suggesting we do?  And don't say "Jay Smith" because he's injured.  Again.

I'm not saying get in a new manager at all. Tilly's substitutions just about sum him up. He never goes for the jugular with his team, never gets exited, the exact opposite to Barry Fry. When we go one up we take the foot off the peddle, one down up goes the effort. Half time team talk, not fired up, go one down. A bloke plays extra poor for 2 months, give him another few weeks. All in all there seems to be no dynatism, passion, quick decision making at the moment almost to say it'll be alright in the end but unless he gets himself moving, relegation will be upon us by Christmas as i don't know where the next point is coming from!

 

[callan]

Am eagerly awaiting the master plan from the doubters.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (callan @ Nov. 01 2006,14:36)]Am eagerly awaiting the master plan from the doubters.

As am I. I suspect, however, that I'll have to endure countless more insults from wiggy before we see anything like a constructive answer.

Instead, it's just "this is sh*t, that is sh*t, the other is sh*t, don't argue with me - what do you know - you didn't go and see the reserves, oh but I'm not saying get rid of Tilson yet. Not really."

More illuminating that Blackpool seafront, I'm sure you'll agree.

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (callan @ Nov. 01 2006,14:36)]Am eagerly awaiting the master plan from the doubters.

We've been in a similar position before (I'm not talking position in the table, I'm talking performances on the pitch).

The normal solution is to fire the manager - cf Norwich, West Brom and at Southend: Murphy, Taylor and Wignall.

I want us to stick with Tilly as I can't see us getting a manager who will be better in the long term, although the short term boost might be enough to keep (1) us up and (2) Freddy.

Plan B, is therefore to get in the respected big name old pro. Best example of this was Spud signing Ronnie Whelan. We need someone who can come in and give everyone a boost. His legs have gone and he's just been named manager of Macclesfield, but Paul Ince would have otherwise fitted the bill entirely and would have filled that problem midfield spot.

Instead I'd look at forwards: my choice Stanley Victor Collymore. The buzz of him returning would be bigger than the buzz of Man U. Forget whether he would be any good, having him around the place would get everyone to raise their game. Should Stan not be available/interested, I'd be ringing Shaun Goater daily. My third option is Sheringham. Always felt he's been over-rated myself, but plenty fawn over him and he'd be a big name signing who would command instant respect from his team-mates and whose encouragement could foster that missing confidence.

Plan C.

Radical changes. Not Tilly's style at all, but the XI out on the pitch Tuesday were losers. Drop losers and bring in winners with belief that they are good enough to play at this level. Flahavan, Barrett, Clarke/Maher, Gower and Harrold out. In Collis, Prior, Moussa, Cole and Hooper. I'm not saying that those five deserve to be dropped or that the five coming in are better players, but that XI who played Tuesday won't win another home game unless something radical happens.

 

[shooter mcgavin]

Quote[/b] (callan @ Nov. 01 2006,14:36)]Am eagerly awaiting the master plan from the doubters.

Sign most of the Arsenal reserve kids on loan. They seemed to do ok against high flying West Brom in the cup the other week!!!

 

[wiggy]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Nov. 01 2006,14:57)]

Quote[/b] (callan @ Nov. 01 2006,14:36)]Am eagerly awaiting the master plan from the doubters.

As am I.  I suspect, however, that I'll have to endure countless more insults from wiggy before we see anything like a constructive answer.

Instead, it's just "this is sh*t, that is sh*t, the other is sh*t, don't argue with me - what do you know - you didn't go and see the reserves, oh but I'm not saying get rid of Tilson yet.  Not really."

More illuminating that Blackpool seafront, I'm sure you'll agree.

Easy, let the back four play together for a while, Hammel, Francis, Barratt, Sodje, mistakes or not but don't let Peter Clarke anywhere near, even the bench. Then a new decent midfielder that is creative and goes forward must be found and all the stops pulled out in terms of spending a few quid. Next get Cole back and re introduce JCR to the team but only after a few sessions with a hypnotist who will convince him to not come back having beat a couple and then to deliver a decent cross at the end of it. Finally a strong bustling target man for Freddy to feed off ala Parkin last night. These measures will ensure us around 6th from bottom around May, there you go sorted!

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Nov. 01 2006,15:03)]Plan B, is therefore to get in the respected big name old pro. Best example of this was Spud signing Ronnie Whelan. We need someone who can come in and give everyone a boost. His legs have gone and he's just been named manager of Macclesfield, but Paul Ince would have otherwise fitted the bill entirely and would have filled that problem midfield spot.

Instead I'd look at forwards: my choice Stanley Victor Collymore. The buzz of him returning would be bigger than the buzz of Man U. Forget whether he would be any good, having him around the place would get everyone to raise their game. Should Stan not be available/interested, I'd be ringing Shaun Goater daily. My third option is Sheringham. Always felt he's been over-rated myself, but plenty fawn over him and he'd be a big name signing who would command instant respect from his team-mates and whose encouragement could foster that missing confidence.

Like the sound of Plan B, Cousin Weir and (shock horror!) Ince was a name I'd also thought of before he'd signed for Macc.

We desperately need a thug in midfield. Who is out there that would fit the bill and give us the lift we all need?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (wiggy @ Nov. 01 2006,15:12)]Easy, let the back four play together for a while, Hammel, Francis, Barratt, Sodje, mistakes or not but don't let Peter Clarke anywhere near, even the bench. Then a new decent midfielder that is creative and goes forward must be found and all the stops pulled out in terms of spending a few quid. Next get Cole back and re introduce JCR to the team but only after a few sessions with a hypnotist who will convince him to not come back having beat a couple and then to deliver a decent cross at the end of it. Finally a strong bustling target man for Freddy to feed off ala Parkin last night. These measures will ensure us around 6th from bottom around May, there you go sorted!

Agree with pretty much all of that, other than I'm not sure where the "few quid" you mention is coming from. And you even managed not to chuck in a gratuitous insult. I call that progress.

Matt

PS I see that Clarke is this season's bogeyman...

P.P.S. Do we presume that Tilly hasn't even tried to get in the midfielder you mention?