Ukip

[Benfleet A1]

Neil Hamilton was on 5 Live this evening to 'explain' Farage's comments. I haven't clue what he meant because he kept contradicting what Farage had said, and what he had said himself earlier in the interview.

He rather casually dismissed the number of racial discrimination cases taken against employers, over 3,000 in the last 12 month period where figures were available, instead suggesting employers and employees could work out their difference between themselves. Is this man living in the real world?

Hamilton is an idiot, he does more harm than good.

 

[Benfleet A1]

I see Farage has made yet another "helpful" contribution to the immigration "debate".:stunned:


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31846453

Oh look, someone else said the same thing, almost eight years ago.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1553710/British-workers-for-British-jobs-says-Brown.html

Was he helping the immigration debate as well?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Oh look, someone else said the same thing, almost eight years ago.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1553710/British-workers-for-British-jobs-says-Brown.html

Was he helping the immigration debate as well?

Difference is that Brown was talking about training the long term unemployed to fill positions that become available and Farage is talking about undoing racial discrimination laws. So a very different approach.

 

[Benfleet A1]

Difference is that Brown was talking about training the long term unemployed to fill positions that become available and Farage is talking about undoing racial discrimination laws. So a very different approach.

Rubbish, different words same meaning.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Rubbish, different words same meaning.

Er..............nope

 

[callan]

Difference is that Brown was talking about training the long term unemployed to fill positions that become available and Farage is talking about undoing racial discrimination laws. So a very different approach.

Genuine question....do you think that british workers should have priority over someone from abroad when it comes to work ?
Reason I ask is that there are industries close to where I live who hire purely from eastern Europe via agencies, these are well known companies that do it.....so it does seem unfair on the locals.

 

[Bielzibubz]

We all know that jobs should be awarded purely on merit and the ability to do that job better than the next person and with the right attitude and application.

Unfortunately, some national and multinational companies don't see it that way and hire, via agencies, nationals from Eastern Europe who are quite happy working at or below the minimum wage. Of course being able to live on that wage is a bonus but when you have 8 to 10 people all living together renting the one two or three bedroom semi it becomes a whole lot easier than the single male/female or couple trying to make their way in the world and do the right thing.

It also has to be said, and I say this as someone with first hand experience of it, that on the whole the average Eastern European work ethic is far and away superior to that of your average 20 to 30 year old British male. I suppose that all depends on the work environment really but I can only go by the one I work in.

After all said and done I can fully appreciate the benefits the influx of migrant workers has brought to the UK this past decade but I can also see the huge detrimental effects it's had on the social fabric of the nation. Everywhere you care to look there are negative effects of this. Crime statistics. Social division and unease in certain communities. The extra burden that's undoubtedly been put on the NHS. The perceived, rightly or wrongly, unfairness of the 'system' that allocates finances and resources.

We are but a small island and I believe the time has now come to accept that we are to all intents and purposes 'full'. The negative effects it's had on this nation are, in my opinion, now outweighing the bonuses it's brought in the past.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

After all said and done I can fully appreciate the benefits the influx of migrant workers has brought to the UK this past decade but I can also see the huge detrimental effects it's had on the social fabric of the nation. Everywhere you care to look there are negative effects of this. Crime statistics. Social division and unease in certain communities. The extra burden that's undoubtedly been put on the NHS. The perceived, rightly or wrongly, unfairness of the 'system' that allocates finances and resources.

We are but a small island and I believe the time has now come to accept that we are to all intents and purposes 'full'. The negative effects it's had on this nation are, in my opinion, now outweighing the bonuses it's brought in the past.

I think you'll find crime statistics are lower now than than they were in the early 80's ie long before recent EU mass immigration began.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime...period-ending-march-2014/stb-crime-stats.html

"Latest figures from the CSEW show there were an estimated 7.3 million incidents of crime against households and resident adults (aged 16 and over) in England and Wales for the year ending March 2014. This represents a 14% decrease compared with the previous year’s survey, and is the lowest estimate since the survey began in 1981".

 

[Rob Noxious]

Hamilton is an idiot, he does more harm than good.

Yes - he should stick to F1.

 

[Bielzibubz]

I think you'll find crime statistics are lower now than than they were in the early 80's ie long before recent EU mass immigration began.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime...period-ending-march-2014/stb-crime-stats.html

"Latest figures from the CSEW show there were an estimated 7.3 million incidents of crime against households and resident adults (aged 16 and over) in England and Wales for the year ending March 2014. This represents a 14% decrease compared with the previous year’s survey, and is the lowest estimate since the survey began in 1981".

What have the overall UK crime figures got to do with the percentage of said crimes committed by Eastern Europeans and migrants? And what has the early 80's got to do with it?

Again, you base your opinions on a biased gov figure. I base mine on comments made my friends in the local police and in The Met.

Come on Comrade, I'd expect better coming from you.

 

[MK Shrimper]

What have the overall UK crime figures got to do with the percentage of said crimes committed by Eastern Europeans and migrants? And what has the early 80's got to do with it?

Again, you base your opinions on a biased gov figure. I base mine on comments made my friends in the local police and in The Met.

Come on Comrade, I'd expect better coming from you.

You mean anecdotes rather than cold hard facts?

 

[Bielzibubz]

You mean anecdotes rather than cold hard facts?

To an extent. Coupled together with what I read and see with my own eyes yes. Sorry, I wasn't specific enough. Lesson leaned, this is Shrimperzone after all ;)

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

What have the overall UK crime figures got to do with the percentage of said crimes committed by Eastern Europeans and migrants? And what has the early 80's got to do with it?

Again, you base your opinions on a biased gov figure. I base mine on comments made my friends in the local police and in The Met.

Come on Comrade, I'd expect better coming from you.

I quoted official crime figures for the UK.

Your evidence is anecdotal at best.I haven't actually seen any figures for crimes committed by East Europeans or migrants.Have you?

The point about the early 80's is twofold.The current figures for crime in the UK are the lowest since 1981.

That date (as I said) is obviously well before mass EU immigration from East European countries started.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

I think you'll find crime statistics are lower now than than they were in the early 80's ie long before recent EU mass immigration began.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime...period-ending-march-2014/stb-crime-stats.html

"Latest figures from the CSEW show there were an estimated 7.3 million incidents of crime against households and resident adults (aged 16 and over) in England and Wales for the year ending March 2014. This represents a 14% decrease compared with the previous year’s survey, and is the lowest estimate since the survey began in 1981".

Lies damn lies and statistics eh?

those of us who work on the "ground floor" regarding these sort of things have a slightly different view to those living abroad quoting from left wing broad sheets - just saying.

 

[callan]

Lies damn lies and statistics eh?

those of us who work on the "ground floor" regarding these sort of things have a slightly different view to those living abroad quoting from left wing broad sheets - just saying.

It's not often I agree with Barna...but crimes against property are definitely down.

What should be looked at more closely is prison populations as well as other crimes that are on the increase....sex offending etc.

Ultimately I'm not sure what we learn from Barna's stats....we could argue that the Tories are doing a fantastic job in controlling crime! ....not sure he would want that!

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

It's not often I agree with Barna...but crimes against property are definitely down.

What should be looked at more closely is prison populations as well as other crimes that are on the increase....sex offending etc.

Ultimately I'm not sure what we learn from Barna's stats....we could argue that the Tories are doing a fantastic job in controlling crime! ....not sure he would want that!

One suggestion I've seen, is that the nature of crime itself has changed, in that there's much more white-collar IT crime these days.

(Ironically,back in the 70's,I remember a New Statesman columnist, (Tailgunner Parkinson,who was a Probation Officer himself), being heavily criticisied for suggesting that PO's should counsel their "clients" to switch to white -collar crime).

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-31892954

I see Boy George refused to rule this out for the Tories on the Marr show (as did Balls with reference to any Labour post-election deal with the SNP).

 

[callan]

One suggestion I've seen, is that the nature of crime itself has changed, in that there's much more white-collar IT crime these days.

(Ironically,back in the 70's,I remember a New Statesman columnist, (Tailgunner Parkinson,who was a Probation Officer himself), being heavily criticisied for suggesting that PO's should counsel their "clients" to switch to white -collar crime).

Crime has certainly become more sophisticated and this is borne out in fraud crime for example increasing.
CCTV has been a huge deterrent on certain types of crime, and I suspect this has a lot to do with the across the board figures going down.
What is interesting is that despite crime falling the prison population is increasing.

 

[Bielzibubz]

I quoted official crime figures for the UK.

Your evidence is anecdotal at best.I haven't actually seen any figures for crimes committed by East Europeans or migrants.Have you?

The point about the early 80's is twofold.The current figures for crime in the UK are the lowest since 1981.

That date (as I said) is obviously well before mass EU immigration from East European countries started.

And the government of the day don't manipulate official figures to suit their agendas do they Barna? :hilarious: Oh dear.

Yes my opinions are anecdotal, I never suggested they are anything else. I too haven't seen any figures for crimes committed by Easter Europeans, official or otherwise. What I have seen and heard, and heard from those on the front line in The Met, is that they have seen an increase in crimes such as organised ATM theft, pick pocketing and general personal theft, crash for cash motoring crime etc.

As has been mentioned previously. Quoting stats and figures from any one particular broadsheet or silly unreliable government statistics really does means diddly squat when trying to argue your point from many miles away.

I think I'll stick to my far more reliable anecdotal evidence taken from those on the front line thank you.

Edit:
I've just spent ten minutes on a Google search and found four articles that back up my argument (The Huff Post, The Express, The Mail and a Channel 4 documentary report) but I don't feel the need to post links in order to justify my opinion.......just saying ;)

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

And the government of the day don't manipulate official figures to suit their agendas do they Barna? :hilarious: Oh dear.

Yes my opinions are anecdotal, I never suggested they are anything else. I too haven't seen any figures for crimes committed by Easter Europeans, official or otherwise. What I have seen and heard, and heard from those on the front line in The Met, is that they have seen an increase in crimes such as organised ATM theft, pick pocketing and general personal theft, crash for cash motoring crime etc.

As has been mentioned previously. Quoting stats and figures from any one particular broadsheet or silly unreliable government statistics really does means diddly squat when trying to argue your point from many miles away.

I think I'll stick to my far more reliable anecdotal evidence taken from those on the front line thank you.

Edit:
I've just spent ten minutes on a Google search and found four articles that back up my argument (The Huff Post, The Express, The Mail and a Channel 4 documentary report) but I don't feel the need to post links in order to justify my opinion.......just saying ;)

Ever heard of objective evidence? :smile: