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Labour and the General Election

All you have as amo is something that happened 12 years ago? As I said Heath did the same in 1970..you have chosen to ignore that fact.
 
I wanted to add something about quantitative easing somewhere too,so it might as well be in this thread.

WTF is that all about, give/print/shift paper around to give to the banks that got us in this mess in the first place to then trust them to maybe, if it suits them distribute/lend it correctly...Do you not see an Irony here?
 
All you have as amo is something that happened 12 years ago? As I said Heath did the same in 1970..you have chosen to ignore that fact.

Actually wasn't done on purpose (I had the pink shed sisters visit my office...and it seemed more appropriate to discuss spending the publics money on painting sheds pink rather than historic gold sales...which sister wendy, wouldn't understand anyway...so I posted a brief a reply...anyway she's gone now and next week the Public will be funding sheds to be painted).

The true answer to your statement re selling gold (whether by Conservatives / BoE or Labour) lies not only in the reason gold is sold but also down to reserves held, and again on whether you see gold as lazy money.

Also think it wasn't till the late 60's that the gold price was truly allowed to fluctuate.

Again important is what price you are selling it for, and how you are selling it.

More importantly (and this is the key) what you have in reserve...we had substantially more back in the 70's as your link illustrates.
 
I don't go for all this austerity bollocks anyway. It is just a way to control the masses whilst the 1% get richer.

Governments aren't that clever. It's why I don't believe in conspiracy - governments are too incompetent to pull it off.

The deficit has always been there,

Not so. Labour were running a deficit from 2003 onwards. That was part of the problem

It's just figures that NO government has any chance of paying off so they just print more money and fob us off with economic rubbish.

The fact they will pay it off is the point here. Lenders lend money to borrowers that they are confident will be able to repay. Risk is reflected in interest rates charged (which is why pay day lenders have such high rates) but ultimately a borrower who can't or won't repay will not have access to lenders.

After WW1 we owed the USA 866 million,equated to in 2006,104 billion...In 1932 the USA just gave up it was becoming ridiculous. as for WW2 the money we borrowed for that we have now after 50 odd years paid back 4 billion to the USA and Canada. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6215847.stm

Defending the realm and democracy is a good reason to lend substantial sums to a foreign government. Likewise WWII.

The Great Depression was about monetary policy and not austerity. The currency peg to gold in the 1930s did exactly what the Euro is doing to Club Med now.

Where was all the shouting of "We must pay off the War loan" over the past governments..It is all Horse****.

Maybe. Radio 4's Thought for the Day was that all debt should be forgiven as borrowing is akin to slavery. The problem here is that if debt is forgiven then no one will ever lend again. Would you lend someone money if there was a chance the debt would be legally cancelled next month.

Likewise if a government defaulted or looked like they couldn't pay then they would either loose access to future borrowing or they would be charged higher interest to borrow. If the UK government lost access to markets then cuts to expenditure would be massive, not the 3% real terms cuts we have seen. If the government hadn't been serious about tackling the deficit (high deficits would bring in to question the sustainability of the UK economy and thus are ability to repay debt) then the cost of borrowing would have risen, which would have meant even bigger cuts to other expenditure anyway. You can argue about how the deficit is cut or the pace but not that ultimately the deficit has to be closed.

Debt has to be repaid and interest has to be serviced. The world in which everyone can borrow unlimited amounts and never have to worry about it doesn't exist. A world without debt would see a massive crash in living standards.
 
Great response thanks Neil, nothing I would not have expected from your economic guru self :winking:..but it can never be repaid...it is futile to think it ever could be. Look at how much the world/people owe..it is unrealistic to ever think this can be repaid. Governments/Corporations like people to be in debt to them...who is it owed to..some form of shape shifting entity?

Our country without debt is a ridiculous fantasy...it will never happen. As I stated before it is a way to control the massive and keep the 1% rich. It is just pass the parcel of debt about and lets make the rich richer.

I guess with all due respect I have lived through a few more economic collapses than your good self this is nothing new to me, just a different date in our timelines.. not much changes we always seem to be on this see-saw.

It does kind of make me smile when Germany have lent the majority of the bail out to Greece. (God bless them for standing up for themselves) although even they are backtracking now to sweeten the EU.. that Germany owe so much of this paper money. http://countryeconomy.com/national-debt/germany
 
Great response thanks Neil, nothing I would not have expected from your economic guru self :winking:..but it can never be repaid...it is futile to think it ever could be. Look at how much the world/people owe..it is unrealistic to ever think this can be repaid. Governments/Corporations like people to be in debt to them...who is it owed to..some form of shape shifting entity?

Our country without debt is a ridiculous fantasy...it will never happen. As I stated before it is a way to control the massive and keep the 1% rich. It is just pass the parcel of debt about and lets make the richer richer.

I guess with all due respect I have lived through a few more economic collapses than your good self this is nothing new to me, just a different date in our timelines.. not much changes we always seem to be on this see-saw.

Isn't it that the deficit (not to be confused with debt) can be closed but that we will always have / need credit (which needs to be serviced or it becomes debt)?

Part of the reason we are where we are is that the previous Labour govt used a deficit to try and smooth out boom or bust.
 
Evening Standard last night stated the official figures released yesterday were that the quarter to end December saw growth of 0.5% which was below predicted levels.
Labour announced some spending plans and Tories said they were unfunded, Tories announced spending plans and Labour said they were unfunded - don't think we are going to learn much from these kind of announcements.

0.5% growth was official though.

And most of that growth came from the service sector and not from production/manufacturing.

Of course that figure could still be revised upwards or downwards in the future.

It will be interesting to see the figures for Q1 when they come out in April (just in time for the g/e).

Will they confirm the current fragile growth or indicate that growth in the UK has ended?
 
And most of that growth came from the service sector and not from production/manufacturing.

Of course that figure could still be revised upwards or downwards in the future.

It will be interesting to see the figures for Q1 when they come out in April (just in time for the g/e).

Will they confirm the current fragile growth or indicate that growth in the UK has ended?


No prizes for guessing what the worlds greatest patriot is hoping for.
 
Great response thanks Neil, nothing I would not have expected from your economic guru self :winking:..but it can never be repaid...it is futile to think it ever could be. Look at how much the world/people owe..it is unrealistic to ever think this can be repaid. Governments/Corporations like people to be in debt to them...who is it owed to..some form of shape shifting entity?

Our country without debt is a ridiculous fantasy...it will never happen. As I stated before it is a way to control the massive and keep the 1% rich. It is just pass the parcel of debt about and lets make the rich richer.

I guess with all due respect I have lived through a few more economic collapses than your good self this is nothing new to me, just a different date in our timelines.. not much changes we always seem to be on this see-saw.

It does kind of make me smile when Germany have lent the majority of the bail out to Greece. (God bless them for standing up for themselves) although even they are backtracking now to sweeten the EU.. that Germany owe so much of this paper money. http://countryeconomy.com/national-debt/germany

Yet before 2003 it was a reality.

Greece have made a grave error in re-electing an anti-austerity party during a time where they are so much in debt. They may be able to renegotiate their terms, but there can't be much room to maneuvre. If they keep defaulting, they will not be lent anymore money and leave their country in that "burning effigy" mood once more. It obviously doesn't help that they are such a lazy nation. I don't see how this party being voted in is going to lead to anything good, anytime soon.

I think there's been a massive overreaction with these cuts. I don't think I know a single person who has actually been affected to a point that has been anything more than a mild inconvenience.

I'm surprised that you have such a flippant attitude to us paying back what we owe. It sounds like you're almost saying that our creditors should go whistle for their money. I guess there wouldn't be such a relaxed attitude if these people started sending over debt collectors choosing people at random to blow off the odd kneecap or cut off a finger or two.....I think suddenly people would stop moaning about the cuts necessary to pay back our debt.
 
I think we were without an annual budget deficit before 2003, rather than without debt.

Debt isn't necessarily a bad thing - companies deliberately leverage themselves up so they can invest more to get a bigger return - but it's about striking an appropriate balance.

When you're losing money (running a deficit) in favourable conditions that's not a good sign. Contrary to Brown's reputation and talk of being prudent, he was anything but after his first term (in which he stuck to Tory spending plans) he was anything but.

Likewise, the Tories talk of austerity rather than actually practice it.
 
Ah, but the key point is, no party in government which has seen real living standards fall during its term of office, has ever been re-elected this side of WW2, (or indeed since the 1920's).


From Oxford Economics

Our Spending Power Index shows that households are enjoying a substantial boost to their finances from the combination of low inflation, accelerating wage growth and generous increases in the tax-free allowance. 2014 saw the largest improvement in spending power for nine years.
And our forecasts suggest that 2015 will be even better. We expect the index to rise at its fastest rate since 2001, which would take its level to within reach of the 2009-peak. This suggests that the ‘cost of living crisis’ is finally drawing to a close.


Probably too late to get a flat real living standards before the GE - but the trend maybe powerful enough. How many of the previous GE's were held when standard of living was falling rather than rising?
 
From Oxford Economics

Our Spending Power Index shows that households are enjoying a substantial boost to their finances from the combination of low inflation, accelerating wage growth and generous increases in the tax-free allowance. 2014 saw the largest improvement in spending power for nine years.
And our forecasts suggest that 2015 will be even better. We expect the index to rise at its fastest rate since 2001, which would take its level to within reach of the 2009-peak. This suggests that the ‘cost of living crisis’ is finally drawing to a close.


Probably too late to get a flat real living standards before the GE - but the trend maybe powerful enough. How many of the previous GE's were held when standard of living was falling rather than rising?

You'd have to go back to the 1920's for that.
 
Oopsy doddles again.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...-twitter-teachers-stop-moaning_n_6592562.html

As my old gran used to say, 'If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all'
He should (maybe has) apologise but it's amusing how Gove attacked the profession for 4 year, Nicky Morgan holds views on equality that do not sit well with the open minded outlook teachers are expected to have, 400,000 children are being taught by unqualified teachers - and yet with one abrupt tweet some proclaim the teacher vote is lost. I think it would take a little more than that.
 
He should (maybe has) apologise but it's amusing how Gove attacked the profession for 4 year, Nicky Morgan holds views on equality that do not sit well with the open minded outlook teachers are expected to have, 400,000 children are being taught by unqualified teachers - and yet with one abrupt tweet some proclaim the teacher vote is lost. I think it would take a little more than that.

Oh absolutely, but you know how the media get all excited with crap like Facebook and Twitter. Anyway, I enjoy my petty torments.
 
Genial Harry Grout;1704276[B said:

Perhaps you can tell us how Cameron's "life experiences" qualify him as a man of the people, (or even Farage's, for that matter)?

At least Miliband went to a local comprehensive school.Which is rather more than Call me Dave or NF can claim.
 
Perhaps you can tell us how Cameron's "life experiences" qualify him as a man of the people, (or even Farage's, for that matter)?

At least Miliband went to a local comprehensive school.Which is rather more than Call me Dave or NF can claim.

Absolutely this.... any man who knows the the price of a pint of milk...can put 5p in a Romanians begging bowl (avoiding any eye contact)...tackle a bacon sarnie with ease is truly a man of the people (and in indeed a feminist).
He's a master of twitter (who can forget his Bob holness rip tweet)...with his finger on the pulse...here I'm thinking of the time he combined woeful stupidity with artful cunning by condemning the Tories for continuing a policy that his own party had implemented.
Like an Elephant he never forgets (The Deficit etc), and never looks awkward in a photo.

Really he's great....
 
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