Question Accounts and the Umbongo - Update!

[Lester Bangs]

So I was thinking last night about the reason that the embargo was in place was that the Accountants would not release the completed Financial Statements until they had received payments (and rightly so, they aren't a charity and they provided a service).

Now this got me worried again as it appears that we are unable to pay our debts as and when they fall due, this ultimately means that the Sainsburys money we drew down on must have been spent already and our cashflow position is diabolical again.

Then the thought occured to me that maybe we could afford to make payment, after all our cash position can't be so bad that we can't afford to pay them right, RIGHT? but for some reason we were withholding payment, this appeased me as it meant that our cashflow was not so bad that we couldn't make payment we just weren't happy with the service that we were being provided and have decided not to pay.

That then got me thinking, well if this was the case what weren't we happy with? The preparation of the Financial Statements? No, that should be easy enough and shouldn't provide controversy. The Audit? Possibly, are the auditors going to qualify the report? Maybe on a going concern basis? Lastly the disclosures? There could be ample reason why there could be disparaging disclosure and this could be a reason for wanting the accounts to be changed.

Obviously this is all conjecture and just my thought process but I was wondering what people though was the better scenario:

1) Not having the money in the first place to pay the Accountants for the work they've undertaken.

2) Witholding monies in an attempt to get the Financial Statements changed and to avoid harmful disclosure or a qualified audit report as the club felt the disclosure were misrepresentative?

Again, I must stress that this scenario is purely fictional just thinking when I worked in Practice that the main reason Accountants didn't get paid wasn't due to the client not having the money but witholding money and the holding the firm to ransom as they were unhappy with what was being reported.

 

[McNasty]

How about we were waiting for the monies to come in from the friendly the other night to enable accountant payment. Simples.

 

[Winkle]

Or maybe that we are broke and continually rob "Peter" to pay "Paul".......you must have been thinking for along time!

 

[Hooly]

Lester, I think we covered much of this on the other "umbongo" thread.

My belief, & I'm also a bean counter, is that SUFC's "going concern" is guaranteed by SEL & it's major shareholder (I think that's Mezcal). As SEL's accounts aren't signed then SUFC's shouldn't be because SEL as an entity can't prove it's a going concern either until it's Audit Report is issued.

Mezcal is BVI registered & as far as I know that, as also in most US states, is a place where private companies don't have to register any annual financial information at all. So we may have to wait some time to know what the issue is.

 

[Jam_Man]

So I was thinking last night about the reason that the embargo was in place was that the Accountants would not release the completed Financial Statements until they had received payments (and rightly so, they aren't a charity and they provided a service).

Now this got me worried again as it appears that we are unable to pay our debts as and when they fall due, this ultimately means that the Sainsburys money we drew down on must have been spent already and our cashflow position is diabolical again.

Then the thought occured to me that maybe we could afford to make payment, after all our cash position can't be so bad that we can't afford to pay them right, RIGHT? but for some reason we were withholding payment, this appeased me as it meant that our cashflow was not so bad that we couldn't make payment we just weren't happy with the service that we were being provided and have decided not to pay.

That then got me thinking, well if this was the case what weren't we happy with? The preparation of the Financial Statements? No, that should be easy enough and shouldn't provide controversy. The Audit? Possibly, are the auditors going to qualify the report? Maybe on a going concern basis? Lastly the disclosures? There could be ample reason why there could be disparaging disclosure and this could be a reason for wanting the accounts to be changed.

Obviously this is all conjecture and just my thought process but I was wondering what people though was the better scenario:

1) Not having the money in the first place to pay the Accountants for the work they've undertaken.

2) Witholding monies in an attempt to get the Financial Statements changed and to avoid harmful disclosure or a qualified audit report as the club felt the disclosure were misrepresentative?

Again, I must stress that this scenario is purely fictional just thinking when I worked in Practice that the main reason Accountants didn't get paid wasn't due to the client not having the money but witholding money and the holding the firm to ransom as they were unhappy with what was being reported.

We received 5 million, most of that went on the tax debts and we were left without 1.3 million to assist in running the club for the coming 12 months, which was 24 months ago.

We had cash flows before and nothing has changed, other than our wage bill being reduced a bit.

I very much doubt we chose not to pay them as part of any clever planned strategy...

 

[Blues 'n twos]

We are broke peeps simple as, we owe numerous creditors and need a cash influx from a transfer fund, but have to rely on the powers that be to deal with as best they see fit and sit back and enjoy the ride that is, SUFC

 

[tallboyblue]

Why not take the £150000 offered for Moshni if we are that desparate for cash?

 

[Blues 'n twos]

Why not take the £150000 offered for Moshni if we are that desparate for cash?

Just because we are broke dont mean we have to accept the first derisory offer that comes in, they know our situation and are trying it on IMO, another 100k and I think thats a fair offer.

 

[effy67]

Or that even though its only £150k they are not going to pay it all up front

 

[tallboyblue]

Depends how desparate we are I suppose. We might not get another offer for Moshni.

 

[Tommy2holes]

Depends how desparate we are I suppose. We might not get another offer for Moshni.

I dont think we will get another offer for Mohsni. Personally think he will never play for the club again and will end up going back to france for the season while pay his wages.

Seriously if he has been that much of a problem then why didnt we take the reported 250-500k that we had been offered previously? Did we honestly think we would get offered alot more further down the line?

If account are so bad that we cannot pay a bill then we should have offloaded a trouble maker for 150k end of.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Just because we are broke dont mean we have to accept the first derisory offer that comes in, they know our situation and are trying it on IMO, another 100k and I think thats a fair offer.

Yep, I agree with that, though another 50k plus add ons would've done me

 

[Winkle]

Yep, I agree with that, though another 50k plus add ons would've done me

Spammers are playing there cards closely and probably told "Bilel" we would like to sign you but lets wait abit, put out a tweet or something saying that you will never play for S.U.F.C and train with the stiffs because we will then have a bargaining tool and probably get you for a derisory figure. This is what I believe will happen as we are not in any position (Finanacially) to turn down anything and west ham know that. What p$$$$s me off the most is that some premiership players get around £220k a week a figure I am sure we would grab for" bilel" if offered. West Ham could afford to pay us £250k or more but lets face it, they wont!

 

[tallboyblue]

Just reviewing this thread. Maybe I missed something but where did this story come from ? I don`t recall hearing anything about the Accountants not being paid before although there has been some suggestion that there is an embargo in place. No doubt someone will enlighten me soon.

 

[Jam_Man]

Spammers are playing there cards closely and probably told "Bilel" we would like to sign you but lets wait abit, put out a tweet or something saying that you will never play for S.U.F.C and train with the stiffs because we will then have a bargaining tool and probably get you for a derisory figure. This is what I believe will happen as we are not in any position (Finanacially) to turn down anything and west ham know that. What p$$$$s me off the most is that some premiership players get around £220k a week a figure I am sure we would grab for" bilel" if offered. West Ham could afford to pay us £250k or more but lets face it, they wont!

This is the same club offering 9m for Matt Jarvis.

50k here or there is peanuts to them, I really dont see them playing games for that sort of money, maybe they just dont think he is worth more than that.

If we are holding out for 50k and willing to miss out on the sale because of it then it certainly would imply that whilst we have cash flow issues the problems are not dire. Then again they could be so dire 150k wont help :smile:

 

[Jam_Man]

Just reviewing this thread. Maybe I missed something but where did this story come from ? I don`t recall hearing anything about the Accountants not being paid before although there has been some suggestion that there is an embargo in place. No doubt someone will enlighten me soon.

Read the embargo threads....

 

[Col.U. Mad]

With respect, everyone seems to forget that this time of year is the best time for cash flow. Money coming in for season cards, merchandise and as McNasty points out friendlies. Also, as Cricko rightly reported the club were as of last week under UmBongo so there wasn't actually a lot of cash going out. Therefore, the rumour that the club can't afford the accountants fees are codswallop.

UTB

 

[tallboyblue]

All I can say is that I have not seen any independent information to suggest that an embargo is in place . Usually such news creeps out from other sources . For the time being I shall remain in cloud cuckoo land until proved otherwise.

 

[Jam_Man]

All I can say is that I have not seen any independent information to suggest that an embargo is in place . Usually such news creeps out from other sources . For the time being I shall remain in cloud cuckoo land until proved otherwise.

It has creeped out from sources. We have had two posters on here with good contacts in the club confirm it.

What independant scource you need to confirm it I dont know, the club arent going to come out with a statement.

 

[superblue24]

Seems a bit odd that we signed on the likes of Eastwood on a 2 year deal just a month ago and now looking at more financial aggro. Whoever made the decision to sign him must have foreseen any turbulent waters ahead, so I wonder why it was pushed through.