Emmanuel Osadebe and Theo Vassell unable to be registered due to EFL Embargo?

[Jai]

Unfortunately most clubs at this level are losing money hand over fist. I read yesterday that Rochdale lost £23k a week last year and that includes the £1million they made from player sales. The money we have "made" from player sales this season will barely touch the sides.

The entire financial structure of the pyramid encourages clubs to gamble to take the step to the next level where they are fabulously rewarded financially - unfortunately if they return to whence they came, they will be in serious trouble.

Ron is firefighting now but the big mistakes all came two or three years ago, signing big name but ageing players with no resale value on big wages, in the gamble to make the Championship. Cox, Ferdinand, Kightly, Kiernan, Turner, etc

The gamble didn't pay off. This is the price.

 

[SheldonW65]

The Hopper money was spent paying up Kiernan and Cox....

I doubt that very much, more likely Ron repaid himself the £140k he loaned the club to sort out Decembers wages.

 

[Jai]

I doubt that very much, more likely Ron repaid himself the £140k he loaned the club to sort out Decembers wages.

The Hopper money like all transfers will be paid in instalments over the length of the player's contract. We'll have barely had any of it yet.

 

[nevereatwhitesnow]

Been and gone at the end of Jan (it was the Dec payroll where some weren't paid)..but could be they want to see this month as well..and the next...they make it up as they go along so you could be right. Little comfort to the two players concerned. But this all assumes some sort of EFL restriction is the issue.

Or it "could" be that Southend owes other clubs money and one or more of them have reported SUFC to the league (Could be hypothetically speaking, money from away ticket sales Southend haven't passed on as an example?)

 

[Fairport]

Or it "could" be that Southend owes other clubs money and one or more of them have reported SUFC to the league (Could be hypothetically speaking, money from away ticket sales Southend haven't passed on as an example?)

That is very likely, example would be that Ron still owes Gillingham, Sunderland etc for ticket sales. Those clubs would then deduct that from the sales made for the return games at Roots Hall. This would mean that the home matches v Gillingham, Coventry, Sunderland and Portsmouth may not be so lucrative after all unless a decent amount of home fans turn up which is not very likely given our current state.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

That is very likely, example would be that Ron still owes Gillingham, Sunderland etc for ticket sales. Those clubs would then deduct that from the sales made for the return games at Roots Hall. This would mean that the home matches v Gillingham, Coventry, Sunderland and Portsmouth may not be so lucrative after all unless a decent amount of home fans turn up which is not very likely given our current state.

i may be mistaken but league game sales are not split. The away club buy a certain allocation then sell to their own fans so nothing from the gate receipts goes to the opposition. I guess they could make a mark up after buying from the home club but thats at their end not ours. I thought it was only cup games that split gate receipts.

 

[nevereatwhitesnow]

i may be mistaken but league game sales are not split. The away club buy a certain allocation then sell to their own fans so nothing from the gate receipts goes to the opposition. I guess they could make a mark up after buying from the home club but thats at their end not ours. I thought it was only cup games that split gate receipts.

The "normal" for clubs is that away club sells the tickets via their systems and then should immediately send all collected money to the home club. Some clubs have in the past been known to delay sending monies collected to the home club which has "soured" relationships and in some cases led to tit-for-tat withholding of funds, in other cases disgruntled clubs have reported offending clubs to league to intervene. Repeat offenders tend to be less well received when other factors relating to finance are under consideration

 

[londonblue]

The Hopper money like all transfers will be paid in instalments over the length of the player's contract. We'll have barely had any of it yet.

That's not always the case. Sometimes they are paid in installments, but not over the length of the contract: the two things are separate.

However, some small fees are paid up front. Depends on what's negotiated.

 

[Westcliff DGS]

The "normal" for clubs is that away club sells the tickets via their systems and then should immediately send all collected money to the home club. Some clubs have in the past been known to delay sending monies collected to the home club which has "soured" relationships and in some cases led to tit-for-tat withholding of funds, in other cases disgruntled clubs have reported offending clubs to league to intervene. Repeat offenders tend to be less well received when other factors relating to finance are under consideration

then the way to stop that is the away club buys a chunk then sells them rather than paying after selling them. Down to the away club to buy in reasonable chunks and then buy more if they need too. That would stop the delayed payment

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

And some people still believe the bull**** from Ron that he's 'personally pumping millions into the club.' ? Where's the Yearwood Money Gone? The Hopper Money? The Bishop Money?

The club has been running at a loss for years. The Hopper money would cover the loss for a month. The Bishop money, maybe be a couple of months (or maybe a month if Kiernan, Cox and Ridgewell were paid up front). The Dru money was about 6 months ago and would cover maybe 4 months' losses.

The Hopper money like all transfers will be paid in instalments over the length of the player's contract. We'll have barely had any of it yet.

The club can borrow against future income though. Given our current situation I'd be surprised if we hadn't.

Or it "could" be that Southend owes other clubs money and one or more of them have reported SUFC to the league (Could be hypothetically speaking, money from away ticket sales Southend haven't passed on as an example?)

It could be, however our away games in the last 4 months have been

Peterborough (Tuesday night)
Blackpool
Doncaster (Tuesday night)
Accrington
AFC Wimbledon
Bolton
Bristol Rovers
Burton (Tuesday night)
Portsmouth (Tuesday night)
Sunderland
Tranmere (Friday night)

Add in how we've playing and that's hardly a recipe for big advance away ticket sales. With the exception of Wimbledon we'd only be owing a couple of grand to a club once you've factored in on the day sales, concessions etc and I'd like to think Ron could find the money to clear that in order to get reinforcements in.

 

[GBJ]

We demonstrably had a situation of significantly under budgeted revenue due to an extended period with no home games.

I believe the EFL will be more ****ed off at the fact that this scenario wasn’t taken into account, during the club’s budget forecast, back in the summer.

And in fairness, they’ve got a point.

These cancelled home games didn’t really come out of the blue. They were predictable, and as such, should have been taken into account.

However, when you’re continuously flying by the seat of your pants, and teetering with your finances, these are the risks you face.

 

[nevereatwhitesnow]

The club has been running at a loss for years. The Hopper money would cover the loss for a month. The Bishop money, maybe be a couple of months (or maybe a month if Kiernan, Cox and Ridgewell were paid up front). The Dru money was about 6 months ago and would cover maybe 4 months' losses.




The club can borrow against future income though. Given our current situation I'd be surprised if we hadn't.



It could be, however our away games in the last 4 months have been

Peterborough (Tuesday night)
Blackpool
Doncaster (Tuesday night)
Accrington
AFC Wimbledon
Bolton
Bristol Rovers
Burton (Tuesday night)
Portsmouth (Tuesday night)
Sunderland
Tranmere (Friday night)

Add in how we've playing and that's hardly a recipe for big advance away ticket sales. With the exception of Wimbledon we'd only be owing a couple of grand to a club once you've factored in on the day sales, concessions etc and I'd like to think Ron could find the money to clear that in order to get reinforcements in.

I'm not sure of the average away attendance or prices but - let's say 250 away tickets sold via SUFC at average of £15 = £3750 owed - I'd have thought for several of those listed above it was nearer 500 tickets sold at an average nearer £20 which is circa £10k - Can see why in cashflow poor times - retaining a lump of that to pay the taxman or players may be deemed more pressing that passing it on directly to other clubs.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I'm not sure of the average away attendance or prices but - let's say 250 away tickets sold via SUFC at average of £15 = £3750 owed - I'd have thought for several of those listed above it was nearer 500 tickets sold at an average nearer £20 which is circa £10k - Can see why in cashflow poor times - retaining a lump of that to pay the taxman or players may be deemed more pressing that passing it on directly to other clubs.

I get that when cashflow is poor you might retain that money longer but I'd like to think Ron could find £3,750 to clear an embargo. A couple of new signings are probably worth that much on the next home gate.

I think it's probably more likely money owed to a former player or manager (we've had enough of those this last year or so) when it's probably several times that amount.

 

[Firestorm]

And some people still believe the bull**** from Ron that he's 'personally pumping millions into the club.' ? Where's the Yearwood Money Gone? The Hopper Money? The Bishop Money? Saving on wages for Cox, Kiernan, Ridgewell etc? It's clear as night follows day that 1. There is no money 2. We are on EFL embargo 3. We will probably be deducted points very soon (Ron is probably hoping it will be this season, the EFL will probably want us to start off next season with a minus). The whole thing is a mess and it's all at the feet of Ron Martin. At least we'll have the best ground in the conference in 2 years eh, Mr martin.

The Yearwood money has been spent, probably on paying wages earlier in the year.
Hopper and Bishop have only just been transferred and we don't know whether the fees were up front or deferred

The saving on wages !! we will only notice that at the end of February when our outgoings will be less , therefore will will be losing less money.

We have been losing , on average 1M a year for the last 20 years that's 83K a month , 20k a week, and that includes incoming transfer fees . We don't owe any financial institution , bank , cash converters or anyone , any significant amount , Just owed to companied owned by RM , so , yes some people do believe that RM has pumped millions into the club , where else do you think the money has come from

 

[Westcliff DGS]

wasnt the Yearwood money used to pay the tax man at the time?

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

And some people still believe the bull**** from Ron that he's 'personally pumping millions into the club.' ? Where's the Yearwood Money Gone? The Hopper Money? The Bishop Money? Saving on wages for Cox, Kiernan, Ridgewell etc? It's clear as night follows day that 1. There is no money 2. We are on EFL embargo 3. We will probably be deducted points very soon (Ron is probably hoping it will be this season, the EFL will probably want us to start off next season with a minus). The whole thing is a mess and it's all at the feet of Ron Martin. At least we'll have the best ground in the conference in 2 years eh, Mr martin.

Notts County might have something to say about that

 

[nevereatwhitesnow]

I get that when cashflow is poor you might retain that money longer but I'd like to think Ron could find £3,750 to clear an embargo. A couple of new signings are probably worth that much on the next home gate.

I think it's probably more likely money owed to a former player or manager (we've had enough of those this last year or so) when it's probably several times that amount.

That's assuming that once a club has reported it to the league simply paying up at that point is deemed sufficient to the League if they are also investigating other financial issues eh!? (as IF it's highlighted that SUFC can't refund a relatively low amount to another club - it's hardly going to give confidence that future wages won't be a problem is it?)

Perhaps it's more than one club that's reported it as once you start robbing Peter to pay Paul things can spiral quickly

 

[Flinty]

you do have to question these 2 players then. Took action against their last club due to non payment to sit around waiting to be signed by another club that they cant sign for due to financial irregularities......sorry but isn't this out of the frying pan into the fire ?? If it was me i would be touting my trade with another club !

 

[C C Csiders]

you do have to question these 2 players then. Took action against their last club due to non payment to sit around waiting to be signed by another club that they cant sign for due to financial irregularities......sorry but isn't this out of the frying pan into the fire ?? If it was me i would be touting my trade with another club !

What and go through that singing ritual again elsewhere?

 

[Flinty]

What and go through that singing ritual again elsewhere?

practice makes perfect