Faith Schools

[pickledseal]

Would those numbers include funds/equipment donated by Parent associations, or for faith schools the church?

I've never heard of the Church ever just donating money. They contribute the 10% which is sizeable, and if it is building related often requires structured loans etc. (my old place had a £1m+ sports hall built, thats £100k from the Diocese which is a lot)

 

[osymandus]

One of my specialist subjects here.

Catholic schools, and I'm not 100% on CoE schools, need to find 10% of their budget. This alone makes it totally, financially unfeasable for the government to get rid. Many of these schools also own their land/buildings which the government could not afford to by off them.

I have sacraficed career progression, and therefore salary, to teach in a Catholic school. The church (admitedly the CoE) were the first to set up free education in this country, way before the government, and have played a major role throughout the history of education in this country - after all, its no coincidence that RE is distinct from the Nat Curr (the '88 Ed Act states pupils must study "The Nat Curr and RE").

I think you'll find evolution on the Nat Curr and GCSE syllabus'.

For me, it's the ethos that is created in a Catholic school - the distinct nature of the upbringing (hopefully) supported at home, school and parish.

Also RC schools are often more diverse and inclusive: http://www.cesew.org.uk/standardnews.asp?id=11347

Wish I had more time on this thread.... bloody marking to do :winking:

Ah but you see the issue many of us have is well the ethos and education is based on the Christian catholic faith , and those who object would rather that an indoctrination into one specific faith didn't exist in an educational environment :P.

 

[Calvin Candie]

I went to st Thomas more in westcliff and some of the absolute tosh I have read in here about faith schools is absolute pathetic. If you compare the standard of human being that goes through a faith school and one that comes out of a normal school is astonishing. Except from the odd prayer every now and then there wasn't much religion forced upon you. There were at least 100 Muslim lads in my year and they didn't get treated differently.

 

[Up the Shrimpers]

I went to st Thomas more in westcliff and some of the absolute tosh I have read in here about faith schools is absolute pathetic. If you compare the standard of human being that goes through a faith school and one that comes out of a normal school is astonishing. Except from the odd prayer every now and then there wasn't much religion forced upon you. There were at least 100 Muslim lads in my year and they didn't get treated differently.

In one year???

 

[osymandus]

I went to st Thomas more in westcliff and some of the absolute tosh I have read in here about faith schools is absolute pathetic. If you compare the standard of human being that goes through a faith school and one that comes out of a normal school is astonishing. Except from the odd prayer every now and then there wasn't much religion forced upon you. There were at least 100 Muslim lads in my year and they didn't get treated differently.

Yes some are , sadly some are not and we are having issues with schools who are not teaching evolution or creationism as a science (Richard Dawrkins website for more info there ).

 

[OldBlueLady]

I went to st Thomas more in westcliff and some of the absolute tosh I have read in here about faith schools is absolute pathetic. If you compare the standard of human being that goes through a faith school and one that comes out of a normal school is astonishing. Except from the odd prayer every now and then there wasn't much religion forced upon you. There were at least 100 Muslim lads in my year and they didn't get treated differently.

The only thing that's different with Tommy's I think, compared to another school, is that taking RE as a GCSE is compulsory? I know there's no qualifying criteria to be a practising RC at Tommy's anymore, plenty of non Catholics go there. I also know Holy Family Primary in Benfleet doesn't automatically discount on religion either.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

There are a lot of faith schools that require the priest (or equivalent) to sign your application to say that you attend church regularly in order for your child to have any chance of getting accepted as a pupil. I also a couple of years ago was looking for a new job and there was a school at the bottom of my road that had a non teaching post that would have been ideal for me, but on recieving the application there was a section about beliefs and if you would fit in with the ethos of the school, etc. I find it strange that these don't fall fowl of equality laws.

 

[MK Shrimper]

There are a lot of faith schools that require the priest (or equivalent) to sign your application to say that you attend church regularly in order for your child to have any chance of getting accepted as a pupil. I also a couple of years ago was looking for a new job and there was a school at the bottom of my road that had a non teaching post that would have been ideal for me, but on recieving the application there was a section about beliefs and if you would fit in with the ethos of the school, etc. I find it strange that these don't fall fowl of equality laws.

They probably chickened out. :winking:

 

[pickledseal]

The only thing that's different with Tommy's I think, compared to another school, is that taking RE as a GCSE is compulsory? I know there's no qualifying criteria to be a practising RC at Tommy's anymore, plenty of non Catholics go there. I also know Holy Family Primary in Benfleet doesn't automatically discount on religion either.

1988 Education Act - All students must study the Nat Curr AND Religious Education.

Legally there has to be a provision if required until leaving school at 18.

Most schools do at least half GCSE now. Otherwise you have 2 years of RE lesson with nothing at the end... Who'd want to teach that?!

 

[MK Shrimper]

1988 Education Act - All students must study the Nat Curr AND Religious Education.

Legally there has to be a provision if required until leaving school at 18.

Most schools do at least half GCSE now. Otherwise you have 2 years of RE lesson with nothing at the end... Who'd want to teach that?!

Bit like religion. All those wasted sundays......... :winking:

 

[pickledseal]

There are a lot of faith schools that require the priest (or equivalent) to sign your application to say that you attend church regularly in order for your child to have any chance of getting accepted as a pupil. I also a couple of years ago was looking for a new job and there was a school at the bottom of my road that had a non teaching post that would have been ideal for me, but on recieving the application there was a section about beliefs and if you would fit in with the ethos of the school, etc. I find it strange that these don't fall fowl of equality laws.

Surely most businesses would want you to uphold their company ethos?

Law can now only ask if you are known to the priest rather than actual number of times you go.

I think it's a right schools retain due to being funded 10% by the Church. I explained before the government couldn't afford to cover this and get rid so they retain certain freedoms to select Catholics first (remember most RC schools were built by Catholics and massively helped the government out in the provision of free education).

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Surely most businesses would want you to uphold their company ethos?

Law can now only ask if you are known to the priest rather than actual number of times you go.

I think it's a right schools retain due to being funded 10% by the Church. I explained before the government couldn't afford to cover this and get rid so they retain certain freedoms to select Catholics first (remember most RC schools were built by Catholics and massively helped the government out in the provision of free education).

Its not a business though, its a school. 90% funded by the tax that I contribute to, yet the wording of the application was that I wouldn't be considered to work there purely because of my lack of religious belief - they are still happy for me to fund them though. I'd happily pay extra tax for local authorities to take over the running of faith schools.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

They probably chickened out. :winking:

I actually paused for a moment to make sure I'd spell foul properly. The worst is having to stop mid sentence to work out how to say towel / tail / tale. These things don't come easy to me!

 

[OldBlueLady]

1988 Education Act - All students must study the Nat Curr AND Religious Education.

Legally there has to be a provision if required until leaving school at 18.

Most schools do at least half GCSE now. Otherwise you have 2 years of RE lesson with nothing at the end... Who'd want to teach that?!

Not quite what I said though Andy, compulsory to take GCSE in RE. RE only compulsory to the end of KS3 when my two went through High School. I appreciate things may have changed in the few years since as more children seem to be taking exams early.

 

[Smudger]

Surely most businesses would want you to uphold their company ethos? .

Really? How christian of you. Jesus would have said the same thing - the FIFO method of teaching children.

In terms of this debate, I'd sooner my kids weren't taught fairytales of any kind and in the 21st century religion shouldn't still have a place in our education system.

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

I went to a faith school as in catholic faith gods own faith and was taught by nuns at primary school and the brothers de la salle at senior school so all strict and taught parrot fashion and i think faith schools are very important to breed the next generstion of athesits.
This is because if you own a brain and engage it then you sit there while they spout their truths and just think what a load of tosh,i got X in my exam but would send my kids there because in south east essex i feel it has a good standard of education..
Alas some people get sucked into the whole god thing but Andys ok in my book.

 

[ldnfatso]

As far as i'm concerned, if you want a faith school you have that option, if you don't then you also have that option. I actually went to a faith school myself (St Thomas More High School for Boys, Westcliff). However if you prefer the non faith school it's simple, don't send your kids to one, but don't dictate what anyone else should do.

This segregation issue is only argued by people in non faith schools, normally because the cannot get into one.

 

[MK Shrimper]

As far as i'm concerned, if you want a faith school you have that option, if you don't then you also have that option. I actually went to a faith school myself (St Thomas More High School for Boys, Westcliff). However if you prefer the non faith school it's simple, don't send your kids to one, but don't dictate what anyone else should do.

This segregation issue is only argued by people in non faith schools, normally because the cannot get into one.

But the kids don't. It's parents that are forcing their own dogma on their kids - or not, if you're faking it.

 

[ldnfatso]

But the kids don't. It's parents that are forcing their own dogma on their kids - or not, if you're faking it.

I assume you must be admitting that faith schools are superior. Being as you would want the best education for your kids, if you believe some parents are faking because thats what it takes then whats to stop the rest of you doing the same? Either you want the best education for your kid's or you impose your militant stand just to save your pride at your child's expense. Also is it fair for you want to impose on any other kid's education? Ps. When i was at STM there were some non-catholic boys there but the stipulation of their attendance was that they were not treated seperately to other children and practiced as a catholic would. Would you be against that idea???

 

[MK Shrimper]

I assume you must be admitting that faith schools are superior.

Superior because they get more money to play with, I guess I am and that's the whole point of this thread, is that it is wrong.

Being as you would want the best education for your kids, if you believe some parents are faking because thats what it takes then whats to stop the rest of you doing the same? Either you want the best education for your kid's or you impose your militant stand just to save your pride at your child's expense.

Isn't showing children that having ethics is important? You tell children not to lie, then parents do nothing but lie about church attendence to get little Jimmy into a Catholic school?

Also is it fair for you want to impose on any other kid's education? Ps. When i was at STM there were some non-catholic boys there but the stipulation of their attendance was that they were not treated seperately to other children and practiced as a catholic would. Would you be against that idea???

Yes absolutely 100%