Faith Schools

[Napster]

which again is dividing children up by the wealth of their parents, if there wasn't so much messing around in terms of gender, wealth, religion, whether some celebrity writer wants to open a school in your area or not, ablity / affordability of tutors for selection exams, etc etc, kids would go to their local school and create a bond known as community.

Community is over-rated. It's all virtual now.

 

[Neil_F]

which again is dividing children up by the wealth of their parents, if there wasn't so much messing around in terms of gender, wealth, religion, whether some celebrity writer wants to open a school in your area or not, ablity / affordability of tutors for selection exams, etc etc, kids would go to their local school and create a bond known as community.

Do you want kids to develop the academic and workplace skills required to compete in the global labour market or build a community?

I know which I would choose.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Do you want kids to develop the academic and workplace skills required to compete in the global labour market or build a community?

I know which I would choose.

both please

 

[Smudger]

Do you want kids to develop the academic and workplace skills required to compete in the global labour market or build a community?

I know which I would choose.

Out of interest, would you send your kids to a Muslim school if it's academic results we're really strong? In saying that, I'm not sure if they would take non-Muslims but hypothetically speaking would you be open to any faith playing a role in your child's education?

 

[Neil_F]

Out of interest, would you send your kids to a Muslim school if it's academic results we're really strong? In saying that, I'm not sure if they would take non-Muslims but hypothetically speaking would you be open to any faith playing a role in your child's education?

Good question - I think my earlier answer still applies: if all the other schools were terrible and I couldn't afford a private schhol, then yes.

I'm not a parent though so it is is easy for me to give an answer. I might have a completely different opinion when I have to make the decision for real.

 

[Smudger]

Good question - I think my earlier answer still applies: if all the other schools were terrible and I couldn't afford a private schhol, then yes.

I'm not a parent though so it is is easy for me to give an answer. I might have a completely different opinion when I have to make the decision for real.

Living where I do gives me an insight into Islam before it has been cleansed for public display (as seen in the UK) and a few well meaning but utterly clueless, non-real world dwellers have got their hands on it. As a result my answer would be "not a chance". I think I would sooner send my kids to the "Derek Zoolander Centre for kids who can't read good and want to learn to do other stuff too."

 

[pickledseal]

Its not a business though, its a school. 90% funded by the tax that I contribute to, yet the wording of the application was that I wouldn't be considered to work there purely because of my lack of religious belief - they are still happy for me to fund them though. I'd happily pay extra tax for local authorities to take over the running of faith schools.

Well any organisation then...

You would be considered, don't join the ranks the imagined persecuted, there are plenty of non-Catholics employed in my place and plenty who don't uphold the ethos. Likewise in lots of other schools.

I don't think anyone has even tried to calculate the cost of the government 'buying' all the land, buildings plus funding running costs of church schools and you would be looking towards hundreds of millions.

 

[pickledseal]

Not quite what I said though Andy, compulsory to take GCSE in RE. RE only compulsory to the end of KS3 when my two went through High School. I appreciate things may have changed in the few years since as more children seem to be taking exams early.

Legally, in accordance to the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 which updated the Education Act of 1988 (my apologies) and item #69 states it should be part of the curriculum thought out school. It's never legally been stopped at Y9, your children's school simply broke the law. (Quite commonplace and OFSTED have been criticised in the past for this)

 

[pickledseal]

But the kids don't. It's parents that are forcing their own dogma on their kids - or not, if you're faking it.

Wohah... Are you going to stop patents getting their own kids baptised too? How about other questionable morals passed on from parents to kids? How are we going to stop those!! ;)

 

[pickledseal]

Superior because they get more money to play with, I guess I am and that's the whole point of this thread, is that it is wrong.

Please prove this. I've never seen any evidence of this. If anything, they've traditionally had to fight for LEA support plus had to take out loans for emergency building work etc as LEA would only fund 90%?

 

[pickledseal]

When it's my turn to choose schools for my daughter I would not be at all comfortable sending her to a school that tells her that if she's bad she's going to hell and install all that guilt on her, because to me that's more damaging IMHO.

Wow! You found a real life 1950's school? Seriously, I have a lot of respect for you MK but your arguments here are mad. Do you really think we say stuff like that?! It reminds me of an article I read earlier... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karl-giberson-phd/take-an-atheist-to-church_b_1327250.html

 

[pickledseal]

Do you want kids to develop the academic and workplace skills required to compete in the global labour market or build a community?

I know which I would choose.

Academically single sex education should be more tailored to learning styles of the students, meaning greater academic progress. The grammar and Catholic schools are often higher up the league tables for this reason.

Socially it's not as great, but again many parents choose single-sex for this very reason ;)

I like the model that some schools low adopt of diamond system... Mixed school but taught apart from Y7-11 (so called diamond as modelled in several private schools who got from pre-Y7).

Community will exist in any school, it'll just take a variety of forms.

 

[osymandus]

Wow! You found a real life 1950's school? Seriously, I have a lot of respect for you MK but your arguments here are mad. Do you really think we say stuff like that?! It reminds me of an article I read earlier... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karl-giberson-phd/take-an-atheist-to-church_b_1327250.html

The thing is most of those criticising from the Atheistic view point are doing so on the religion itself as it would be a false premise (like much of that article ) to do so on each individual , as the more an individual become interpretors for the religion for themselves the more they question and hopefully critique it .

While I agree that not every one will study the holy books of those they criticise , the arch atheists are known (Hitchens Dawrkins et al) for not only having read and studied but also literally critique and debated with people of the specific faiths , which some come up wanting as the fall back for faith is "because insert ethereal authority with out possibility of empirical evidence to prove its existence here "

The basic ethos of a religious school will dictate what they regard as important and priority given to what they feel is the best "education" while main ting their own ideologies, or else there is no reason to be a faith school and the organisation is a centre for learning .

 

[Smudger]

Wow! You found a real life 1950's school? Seriously, I have a lot of respect for you MK but your arguments here are mad. Do you really think we say stuff like that?! It reminds me of an article I read earlier... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karl-giberson-phd/take-an-atheist-to-church_b_1327250.html

Sorry Andy but that article is lightweight nonsense. The author's view of religion is as simplistic and uninformed as those he is trying to to undo, those people that he considers lazy, dumb atheists drifting from one scare story to the next. If he could see beyond his church full of nice people he might notice what a mess religion is making of the rest of the world.

 

[pickledseal]

Sorry Andy but that article is lightweight nonsense. The author's view of religion is as simplistic and uninformed as those he is trying to to undo, those people that he considers lazy, dumb atheists drifting from one scare story to the next. If he could see beyond his church full of nice people he might notice what a mess religion is making of the rest of the world.

Of course it is, it's the Huff Post!

My point really was that there's been some nonsense written in this thread about faith schools that if people even did a tiny bit of research or went to look round a 2012 faith school they'd realise.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Of course it is, it's the Huff Post!

My point really was that there's been some nonsense written in this thread about faith schools that if people even did a tiny bit of research or went to look round a 2012 faith school they'd realise.

I'm sure you can speak from a Catholic viewpoint, but can you from a Muslim/Sikh or Hindu? These people are part of the community in 2012 and unless they mix with CofE, Catholic, Bhuddist and good old non-believers they're being segregated and in my eyes, that sets a dangerous precedence.

Can I ask, how does a Catholic school deal with homosexuality?

 

[Gremlin]

Can I ask, how does a Catholic school deal with homosexuality?

By way of ordination, isn't it?

 

[MK Shrimper]

By way of ordination, isn't it?

Remind me I owe you a green splodge. :hilarious:

 

[pickledseal]

I'm sure you can speak from a Catholic viewpoint, but can you from a Muslim/Sikh or Hindu? These people are part of the community in 2012 and unless they mix with CofE, Catholic, Bhuddist and good old non-believers they're being segregated and in my eyes, that sets a dangerous precedence.

Can I ask, how does a Catholic school deal with homosexuality?

There is the issue of segregation yes, but I don't think by closing faith schools we'd stop that. You only get Hindu schools in predominantly Hindu areas therefore even if it wasn't a Hindu school, there wouldn't be a lot of mixing. A decent % are also private so parents are simply exercising their rights.

What do you mean 'deal with it'?

 

[MK Shrimper]

There is the issue of segregation yes, but I don't think by closing faith schools we'd stop that. You only get Hindu schools in predominantly Hindu areas therefore even if it wasn't a Hindu school, there wouldn't be a lot of mixing. A decent % are also private so parents are simply exercising their rights.

What do you mean 'deal with it'?

It's a sin isn't it according to the Bible?