Game of Thrones S5 - Discussion Thread

[Mad Cyril]

Bron is my favourite character.

 

[wakes123]

The series is falling very flat in my considered opinion.

Have to agree with this.

 

[wakes123]

Thoughts -

Great to have Nana Tyrell back. However, she got mugged off far too easily by Cersei

"The dwarf lives until we find a **** merchant" is one of the all-time great GOT lines

Arya's storyline isn't very interesting

Given how much time they have given over to some of the comedy road trips on the show, fast forwarding Jaime and Bronn's lads holiday to Dorne seems a waste

I did think Sansa was making a move up the power rankings when she stuck it to Myranda but perhaps not. The rape scene was horribly bleak and not necessary

Also, given that episode nine of each series has tended to be the one where the biggest events take place, are we predicting a big old Battle Of Winterfell in three weeks?

I'm sure that will happen, but I'm not really emotionally attached to either army - I don't really care who wins, neither house is very likable. Whereas when the Stark's were against the Lannister's I was heavily rooting for the Stark's.

 

[blues_r_best]

My opinion of Stannis has changed over the seasons and now he is a favourite character of mine. Hope he smashes the Boltons but things never happen like that in this show.

He's like the Russian police. Stern, stern but fair.

 

[wakes123]

My opinion of Stannis has changed over the seasons and now he is a favourite character of mine. Hope he smashes the Boltons but things never happen like that in this show.

He's like the Russian police. Stern, stern but fair.

I do actually like Stanis, but that crazy fire women will be pulling all the strings. If he can get rid of her then I'd be rooting for him.

 

[Uncle Leo]

I'm sure that will happen, but I'm not really emotionally attached to either army - I don't really care who wins, neither house is very likable. Whereas when the Stark's were against the Lannister's I was heavily rooting for the Stark's.

You have to go Stannis over the Boltons don't you? Ser Davos fights for Stannis, ergo Stannis is the man.

 

[BrettieAngell]

I want to see Ramsey's head on a stick that would save this series!

 

[Pubey]

You have to go Stannis over the Boltons don't you? Ser Davos fights for Stannis, ergo Stannis is the man.

Also she's weird and manipulative, and what she did in that cave was just nasty, I'm also team sexy witch.

 

[Tommy2holes]

Ramsey Bolton has to go and I think reek should be the one to do it.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Also thought it was a slow episode. The sand snakes seem pointless, however I did chuckle at Tyrion's comments to the slavers. The end scene with Sansa & Ramsey was indeed brutal.

 

[Blue_Wes]

Also thought it was a slow episode. The sand snakes seem pointless, however I did chuckle at Tyrion's comments to the slavers. The end scene with Sansa & Ramsey was indeed brutal.

It was indeed, but the uproar and threats of never watching again are way OTT, in my opinion.

 

[MK Shrimper]

It was indeed, but the uproar and threats of never watching again are way OTT, in my opinion.

Oh absolutely. It's a piece of fiction for godssake. No cute gingers were hurt in the making of Game Of Thrones.

 

[Pubey]

It was indeed, but the uproar and threats of never watching again are way OTT, in my opinion.

I think the uproar is valid, tbh. It did nothing to advance the story, we already know that Ramsey is despicable, Theon is gradually regressing back, and Sansa is in a dangerous place. Did we need yet another rape scene?

I also find is slightly off (not a go at you, Wes) that lots of MRAs/men seem to wade in with 'it wasn't rape", "pseudofeminism", "rape can be used to progress a story" etc etc. Let's listen to women when it comes to rape, we all might learn something. It was similar with the Ched Evans issue. Men claiming to be experts on consent and rape, which seeing as rape is most commonly a misogynistic crime, basically highlights misogyny and male privilege.

For a show that is great for it's portrayal of rounded, independent and non-trope female characters, it's a shame that it needs to sometimes slip into the occasional trope shock tactic.

This is a good article.

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/05/game-of-thrones-rape-sansa-stark

 

[MK Shrimper]

Let's face it, Sansa was not a willing bride - she wasn't Cinderella marrying her Prince Charming. Consumation of the marriage was going to be forced - it showed that one of the most human of characters in GOT is Tyrion who respected her.

 

[Jam_Man]

How should it have been portrayed? The incident and her treatment will lead to other actions in the story line. Just knowing Ramsey isn't very nice may not validate later actions. Oh so she goes on to do X,Y or Z because Ramsey shouted at her because his dinner wasn't on the table may not ring true.

You didnt actually see it anyway, it was all off camera, thought it was done pretty resonsibly.

 

[Uncle Leo]

How should it have been portrayed? The incident and her treatment will lead to other actions in the story line. Just knowing Ramsey isn't very nice may not validate later actions. Oh so she goes on to do X,Y or Z because Ramsey shouted at her because his dinner wasn't on the table may not ring true.

You didnt actually see it anyway, it was all off camera, thought it was done pretty resonsibly.

I've not re-watched that bit and don't intend to but I certainly remember feeling on Monday night that it was being dragged out somewhat, that they could have conveyed that Sansa was going to be raped and Theon/Reek would be forced to watch without the scene lasting as long as it did.

It's possible that the scene wasn't long at all, but it certainly felt like it.

 

[wakes123]

I think the uproar is valid, tbh. It did nothing to advance the story, we already know that Ramsey is despicable, Theon is gradually regressing back, and Sansa is in a dangerous place. Did we need yet another rape scene?

I also find is slightly off (not a go at you, Wes) that lots of MRAs/men seem to wade in with 'it wasn't rape", "pseudofeminism", "rape can be used to progress a story" etc etc. Let's listen to women when it comes to rape, we all might learn something. It was similar with the Ched Evans issue. Men claiming to be experts on consent and rape, which seeing as rape is most commonly a misogynistic crime, basically highlights misogyny and male privilege.

For a show that is great for it's portrayal of rounded, independent and non-trope female characters, it's a shame that it needs to sometimes slip into the occasional trope shock tactic.

This is a good article.

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/05/game-of-thrones-rape-sansa-stark

Good article. A good point made that this is the family who killed her mother and brother, and now they are raping her whilst making her other brother (not by blood, but they grew up together) watch it all. I felt it was a bit much.

 

[Blue_Wes]

I think the uproar is valid, tbh. It did nothing to advance the story, we already know that Ramsey is despicable, Theon is gradually regressing back, and Sansa is in a dangerous place. Did we need yet another rape scene?

I also find is slightly off (not a go at you, Wes) that lots of MRAs/men seem to wade in with 'it wasn't rape", "pseudofeminism", "rape can be used to progress a story" etc etc. Let's listen to women when it comes to rape, we all might learn something. It was similar with the Ched Evans issue. Men claiming to be experts on consent and rape, which seeing as rape is most commonly a misogynistic crime, basically highlights misogyny and male privilege.

For a show that is great for it's portrayal of rounded, independent and non-trope female characters, it's a shame that it needs to sometimes slip into the occasional trope shock tactic.

This is a good article.

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/05/game-of-thrones-rape-sansa-stark

I probably should have been clearer. I agree it was an uneasy watch, and assume it will stregthen a future reaction from another area.

My gripe is against those that are now claiming (falsely in my opinion too) that they will stop watching and that it was way out of line.

Presumably, these are the same people that have watched from the beginning? If they are so inclined, then why did they continue to watch when Dany was sexually assaulted by her own brother? Why did they continue watching when Khal Drogo raped her (in more or less the same circumstances), and far more gratuitously as well? Why did they continue watching when Jaime raped Cersei aside their fathers corpse? Why did they continue watching when a pregnanant mother and her unborn child was stabbed to death? Why is it ok to show Ros mutilated in a sexual manner by Joffrey? Why when Carl Tanner & co raped Craster daughters at Crasters keep, was it ok?

The main difference for me, is the instigator. For the first two instances (Jaime / Drogo) they're attractive, likable characters who despite flaws aren't generally villified. Because Ramsey is a dislikable, unattractive character - the reaction is completely different. I know Carl Tanner was too, but he almost immediatly got his commupance, and his victims were not characters that we knew, therefore there was no reaction as it took the emotion away. Basically, they're saying, we won't cry foul play on rape scenes if we don't know the victim. This sudden uproar from a programme that has set it's audiences expectations from the off, is just jumping on a growing feminazi bandwagon.

I don't buy the argument that women are constantly degraded and are lesser citizens on GoT that I've been seeing as well. As for me, the series centres around strong women that rise through adversity and prove their strength, over and over. Arya, Dany, Brienne, Cersei, Sansa and Margaery. With the exception of Jon & Tyrion is there a man alive in Westeros that has faced more or equal adversary, and come out stronger? Maybe Bran? Maybe Davos. But the women are leading this series for me, sure the men do most of the fighting and dying, but the women are the real players here.
Look at the sandsnakes, despite how poorly they've been portrayed in the series, strong, attractive forthright women, in a country that values women as equals (rights to rule).

As for the other arguement I've seen, that it doesn't happen in the book.

  Spoiler:  

It does, just not to her. She's taken the place of Jeyne Poole in the books, who is passed of as Arya. but the treatment is far worse, with Theon, and even a dog I think being forced upon her as well.

So has actually been toned down for the series. But if it had happened like for like, why does that make it ok, if your initial view is that it shouldn't be shown.

 

[Pubey]

I probably should have been clearer. I agree it was an uneasy watch, and assume it will stregthen a future reaction from another area.

My gripe is against those that are now claiming (falsely in my opinion too) that they will stop watching and that it was way out of line.

Presumably, these are the same people that have watched from the beginning? If they are so inclined, then why did they continue to watch when Dany was sexually assaulted by her own brother? Why did they continue watching when Khal Drogo raped her (in more or less the same circumstances), and far more gratuitously as well? Why did they continue watching when Jaime raped Cersei aside their fathers corpse? Why did they continue watching when a pregnanant mother and her unborn child was stabbed to death? Why is it ok to show Ros mutilated in a sexual manner by Joffrey? Why when Carl Tanner & co raped Craster daughters at Crasters keep, was it ok?

The main difference for me, is the instigator. For the first two instances (Jaime / Drogo) they're attractive, likable characters who despite flaws aren't generally villified. Because Ramsey is a dislikable, unattractive character - the reaction is completely different. I know Carl Tanner was too, but he almost immediatly got his commupance, and his victims were not characters that we knew, therefore there was no reaction as it took the emotion away. Basically, they're saying, we won't cry foul play on rape scenes if we don't know the victim. This sudden uproar from a programme that has set it's audiences expectations from the off, is just jumping on a growing feminazi bandwagon.

I don't buy the argument that women are constantly degraded and are lesser citizens on GoT that I've been seeing as well. As for me, the series centres around strong women that rise through adversity and prove their strength, over and over. Arya, Dany, Brienne, Cersei, Sansa and Margaery. With the exception of Jon & Tyrion is there a man alive in Westeros that has faced more or equal adversary, and come out stronger? Maybe Bran? Maybe Davos. But the women are leading this series for me, sure the men do most of the fighting and dying, but the women are the real players here.
Look at the sandsnakes, despite how poorly they've been portrayed in the series, strong, attractive forthright women, in a country that values women as equals (rights to rule).

As for the other arguement I've seen, that it doesn't happen in the book.

  Spoiler:  

It does, just not to her. She's taken the place of Jeyne Poole in the books, who is passed of as Arya. but the treatment is far worse, with Theon, and even a dog I think being forced upon her as well.

So has actually been toned down for the series. But if it had happened like for like, why does that make it ok, if your initial view is that it shouldn't be shown.

People were ****ed off about the Jaime and Cersei scene as well, and that did nothing to advance any story, so I think it's also fair to assume at this stage that the Sansa rape is yet another shock tactic. Why not just end the scene when Theon was made to shut the door.

With Dany from her rapes she ended up being a relatively strong and independent person (still a pretty bad leader). That's a dangerous trope to play because it leads to the idea that women can be stronger after a rape. It might be the case in some examples, but on the whole being raped devastates someone's whole life.

The Joffery bits really did develop his character. He went from a **** to a complete misogynistic psycho and sociopath. He also got his just desserts.

With Ramsey we already know he's pure evil. We also know that Theon is regaining his 'theon-ness'. With Sansa she regained agency by squaring up to Melinda(?) and at the end of S4 as well. She had gone from a pretty weak and uninspired character into someone who was potentially ready to play the game herself. But that's been taken away from her.

I really hope Sansa does get the opportunity to recover. I don't like the idea of her spending the whole show being a victim, it seems unnecessarily cruel and pointless.

But I guess (yet again) we need to wait and see where the story takes up. Let's hope they've learnt a little from the pointless violence against women in the past and realise that people will only accept it up to a certain point, it needs to have meaning within the story, and it's easy to slip into clichés and tropes.




Anyway tl:dr

 

[Jam_Man]

I think what happens to Sansa has more meaning than any prior because its what leads to other events.

The Jamie/Cersei scene was pointless, I could understand people disliking that one.