New Stadium...different view

[weststander]

Is it not the case that RM owns everything connected with the club so in theory if the club goes under RM will still collect monies from various sites and hey presto FF becomes a very tasty housing development for somebody.

I would love to sit in FF amongst large crowds watching the lads,Yet somehow to me its all above the standing of our club,Lets hope i am proved wrong.

As I understand it, there is a covenant on Roots Hall that states the land is for a sports ground and cannot be built upon unless a new ground has been provided, now if the club were to go bust then this covenant would still stop any building work from taking place on it. As for Fossetts Farm I would doubt that planning permission for a housing development would be passed as the land was specifically classified for the clubs new home and sport/leisure and not for largescale housing. That is why Ron is pushing so hard for this project to be completed, if he fails he gets nothing......

 

[GBJ]

Speak for yourself

So do you see us filling a 22k seater week in week out? erm, no

 

[weststander]

So do you see us filling a 22k seater week in week out? erm, no

I dont see us filling it every week either, but, if we were to fill a 22,000 once a season it would generate £175,000 more than a 15,000 sell out would (based on a ticket price of £25).

 

[BrettieAngell]

So do you see us filling a 22k seater week in week out? erm, no

No-one does but thats not really a point, we need a new stadium to be able to compete at a higher level look at the money we have been losing the last couple of years.

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

So do you see us filling a 22k seater week in week out? erm, no

Why bother asking a question and then answering it yourself?
We will not fill FF week in, week out in the early days, but if we want our club to progress, have bigger ticket revenues, attract better players and draw in more supporters then FF is vital to our future as a foreward looking club.After that anything is possible.

 

[Shrimpergonzo]

Don't forget that we had to provide an argument to the Planning Inspector why moving from Roots Hall to a greenfield site (with enabling retail and housing developments) was necessary. My guess is the stadium capacity was a big factor. If it was only a small % increase in capacity, my guess is they would have urged us to just pull down the North Bank and build a large stand there. We had to demonstrate that it was physically impossible to provide what we "needed" on the existing site.

 

[Jam_Man]

My point being is the board thought a 12000 capacity built on Boots and Laces would suit club needs,This plan was then altered to 16000 at FF then increased further to 22000,Seems to me the board were never really certain on what capacity would suffice,Still our good luck we have an all knowing PD running the show.

There is absolutely no point nor logic in going through all this work over the past few years to increase our capacity by 3,000.

Personally 18,000 seems a reasonable size but not complaining about an extra 4,000 seats which in the big scheme of things isnt going to be much bigger.

Id rather we had too many seats than too few and "four stand" stadiums are horrible acousitcally and asthetically. Col U fans complained all along that the corners were open.

 

[united we stand]

what I find most interesting is that Ron gets slagged off for being a 'businessman' and a 'property developer' and 'only in it for the money' -- fair enough if that is your view. But doesn't the above mean that he is exactly the type of person we want to be in charge of the building of the new stadium ?

Maybe I am more niave than others or don't understand as well , but I thought that if Southend united were financially sucessfull then this made Ron money and therefore perhaps as a 'businessman' it worked for him for Southend to be sucessfull?

 

[blue shrimp]

Under 7000 for the game against Oldham meaning Roots Hall was filled by around 65% of home fans of the Halls capacity,Around 4000 empty seats were unoccupied by blues supporters,The 22000 scenario would of looked brilliant being only a third full...Oh well.

 

[BrettieAngell]

Under 7000 for the game against Oldham meaning Roots Hall was filled by around 65% of home fans of the Halls capacity,Around 4000 empty seats were unoccupied by blues supporters,The 22000 scenario would of looked brilliant being only a third full...Oh well.

Yeah a crowd of about 16,000 what a nightmare.

 

[blue shrimp]

Yeah a crowd of about 16,000 what a nightmare.

Ha Ha it would be good!!..Not in this world though.

 

[Strykr]

Ha Ha it would be good!!..Not in this world though.

still not sure i understand where your coming from Blue shrimp.
its not beyond the realms of possibility even for the most pessimistic of people to think that 16000 is possible, considering the population of southend alone is around 160000, and if were playing the right kind of football, against the right kind of opposition, do you think we should just stay at the hall? or maybe sell the hall and downsize to around 7000 so we fill it each week?

 

[blue shrimp]

There is absolutely no point nor logic in going through all this work over the past few years to increase our capacity by 3,000.

Personally 18,000 seems a reasonable size but not complaining about an extra 4,000 seats which in the big scheme of things isnt going to be much bigger.

Id rather we had too many seats than too few and "four stand" stadiums are horrible acousitcally and asthetically. Col U fans complained all along that the corners were open.

I have been too many "bowls" and yes when they are packed its great,However when they are half full or less its crud.
Many decent 4 sided grounds including Wolves Wigan Blackburn Liverpool Everton Millwall QPR the list are many.

 

[blue shrimp]

still not sure i understand where your coming from Blue shrimp.
its not beyond the realms of possibility even for the most pessimistic of people to think that 16000 is possible, considering the population of southend alone is around 160000, and if were playing the right kind of football, against the right kind of opposition, do you think we should just stay at the hall? or maybe sell the hall and downsize to around 7000 so we fill it each week?

The Hall is old and tired and would need a complete revamp costing many millions so I am all for a nice shiny new stadium.Reasons against such a large arena are basically simple .

No evidence exists of blues attracting gates of 16000 for league games,In fact combining all our home championship/2nd tier league games produced an average crowd of around 7000.

Assuming FF is built in 2 or 3 years time?Who knows what division the team will be playing in? We have all seen funding for players appears to have stopped so there is a real risk of being relegated before FF is completed..Would there be a need for 22k stadium in league 2?

If the stadium is ever built I can easily see large sections of the ground closed off due to low crowds,Look at the current south stand on average around 1000 use it yet at FF 1000 behind the goal would be lost amongst the empty seats.

 

[weststander]

No evidence exists of blues attracting gates of 16000 for league games,In fact combining all our home championship/2nd tier league games produced an average crowd of around 7000.

No evidence eh ? Now bear with me here but look at the following

1966 12,609 Vs Port Vale
1967 13,871 Vs Workington
1967 13,634 Vs Doncaster
1967 13,502 Vs Swansea Town
1967 8 attendances over 10k
1968 12,849 Vs Colchester
1968 12 attendances over 10k
1969 11,703 Vs Grimsby
1970 16,668 Vs Carlisle
1971 15,814 Vs Doncaster
1971 15,854 Vs Gillingham
1971 17,059 Vs Cambridge
1971 4 attendances over 12k
1972 24,160 Vs Chelsea
1974 18,100 Vs QPR
1974 17,394 Vs Crystal Palace
1975 13,500 Vs Crystal Palace
1975 12,863 Vs Cardiff
1977 11,372 Vs Brentford
1977 11,253 Vs Rochdale
1978 15,635 Vs Watford
1978 13,552 Vs Brentford
1978 31,036 Vs Liverpool
1979 22,429 Vs West Ham
1980 11,195 Vs Lincoln

These are some of the largest crowds from the days when Roots Hall held 31,000 people and the facilities were abysmal. They were days when away crowd for most games could be counted on your fingers and toes so most of these were home fans. These figures show that there is a potential and that with decent facilities and good marketing then it will be possible to regularly get large crowds. Its interesting to see that if we built your 16k stadium then you might not have got in to see 7 of the biggest matches listed and that you might not get to see some of the big games in the future (at which point i'm sure that you would be one of the people moaning that you werent able to get a ticket and why didnt we build a 22k stadium whne we had the chance.)

We all know that we will not fill a 22,000 seater stadium from day 1 when it is built but it is then up to the marketing department to work their magic and fill it as much as they can, its an incentive for them to achieve a target. I re-iterate that if anyone would have said in the dark days of the early 80's that we would average 8,000+ in what wouldve been division 3 then they'd ahve been put in Runwell before they could say Anton Otulakowski !!!

 

[blue shrimp]

No evidence eh ? Now bear with me here but look at the following

1966 12,609 Vs Port Vale
1967 13,871 Vs Workington
1967 13,634 Vs Doncaster
1967 13,502 Vs Swansea Town
1967 8 attendances over 10k
1968 12,849 Vs Colchester
1968 12 attendances over 10k
1969 11,703 Vs Grimsby
1970 16,668 Vs Carlisle
1971 15,814 Vs Doncaster
1971 15,854 Vs Gillingham
1971 17,059 Vs Cambridge
1971 4 attendances over 12k
1972 24,160 Vs Chelsea
1974 18,100 Vs QPR
1974 17,394 Vs Crystal Palace
1975 13,500 Vs Crystal Palace
1975 12,863 Vs Cardiff
1977 11,372 Vs Brentford
1977 11,253 Vs Rochdale
1978 15,635 Vs Watford
1978 13,552 Vs Brentford
1978 31,036 Vs Liverpool
1979 22,429 Vs West Ham
1980 11,195 Vs Lincoln

These are some of the largest crowds from the days when Roots Hall held 31,000 people and the facilities were abysmal. They were days when away crowd for most games could be counted on your fingers and toes so most of these were home fans. These figures show that there is a potential and that with decent facilities and good marketing then it will be possible to regularly get large crowds. Its interesting to see that if we built your 16k stadium then you might not have got in to see 7 of the biggest matches listed and that you might not get to see some of the big games in the future (at which point i'm sure that you would be one of the people moaning that you werent able to get a ticket and why didnt we build a 22k stadium whne we had the chance.)

We all know that we will not fill a 22,000 seater stadium from day 1 when it is built but it is then up to the marketing department to work their magic and fill it as much as they can, its an incentive for them to achieve a target. I re-iterate that if anyone would have said in the dark days of the early 80's that we would average 8,000+ in what wouldve been division 3 then they'd ahve been put in Runwell before they could say Anton Otulakowski !!!

Your stats include several cup games and remember during the periods you quoted every club throughout the land experienced large crowds as football boomed as it was cheap to watch.

I selected 40 games from the division one days against opponents such as Middlesbro,Sheffield UTD,Millwall,Derby,Wolves,Portsmouth,Stoke,Boltan,Liecester,Charlton,Nowich,Ipswich,Palace,Forest,Sunderland.These very attractive fixtures produced an average crowd of 6000,Of course if i included the lowest gates it would be total carnage.

How many times has the Hall been sold out in the past 10 years?How many times has the Hall been sold out for home fans in the last 10 years?

 

[shrimpfan]

Your stats include several cup games and remember during the periods you quoted every club throughout the land experienced large crowds as football boomed as it was cheap to watch.

I selected 40 games from the division one days against opponents such as Middlesbro,Sheffield UTD,Millwall,Derby,Wolves,Portsmouth,Stoke,Boltan,Liecester,Charlton,Nowich,Ipswich,Palace,Forest,Sunderland.These very attractive fixtures produced an average crowd of 6000,Of course if i included the lowest gates it would be total carnage.

How many times has the Hall been sold out in the past 10 years?How many times has the Hall been sold out for home fans in the last 10 years?

Every club experienced large crowds try telling that to a old Southport,workington,barrow,Bradford park avenue ...fan

 

[blue shrimp]

No evidence eh ? Now bear with me here but look at the following

1966 12,609 Vs Port Vale
1967 13,871 Vs Workington
1967 13,634 Vs Doncaster
1967 13,502 Vs Swansea Town
1967 8 attendances over 10k
1968 12,849 Vs Colchester
1968 12 attendances over 10k
1969 11,703 Vs Grimsby
1970 16,668 Vs Carlisle
1971 15,814 Vs Doncaster
1971 15,854 Vs Gillingham
1971 17,059 Vs Cambridge
1971 4 attendances over 12k
1972 24,160 Vs Chelsea
1974 18,100 Vs QPR
1974 17,394 Vs Crystal Palace
1975 13,500 Vs Crystal Palace
1975 12,863 Vs Cardiff
1977 11,372 Vs Brentford
1977 11,253 Vs Rochdale
1978 15,635 Vs Watford
1978 13,552 Vs Brentford
1978 31,036 Vs Liverpool
1979 22,429 Vs West Ham
1980 11,195 Vs Lincoln

These are some of the largest crowds from the days when Roots Hall held 31,000 people and the facilities were abysmal. They were days when away crowd for most games could be counted on your fingers and toes so most of these were home fans. These figures show that there is a potential and that with decent facilities and good marketing then it will be possible to regularly get large crowds. Its interesting to see that if we built your 16k stadium then you might not have got in to see 7 of the biggest matches listed and that you might not get to see some of the big games in the future (at which point i'm sure that you would be one of the people moaning that you werent able to get a ticket and why didnt we build a 22k stadium whne we had the chance.)

We all know that we will not fill a 22,000 seater stadium from day 1 when it is built but it is then up to the marketing department to work their magic and fill it as much as they can, its an incentive for them to achieve a target. I re-iterate that if anyone would have said in the dark days of the early 80's that we would average 8,000+ in what wouldve been division 3 then they'd ahve been put in Runwell before they could say Anton Otulakowski !!!

Would also like to add that during the championship season which was of course only 3 years ago here are my little stats for you to savour?

The Halls capacity is 12300 meaning over 23 league games total capacity is 282,900 yet only 230,507 attended meaning the lads could of played 4 league home games in an empty stadium,FF madness would of meant 276,000 seats were empty or the lads could of played around 12 games in an entirely empty stadium.I suggest the 230,507 figure does not warrant or need the 22k stadium.........IMO of course.

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

Would also like to add that during the championship season which was of course only 3 years ago here are my little stats for you to savour?

The Halls capacity is 12300 meaning over 23 league games total capacity is 282,900 yet only 230,507 attended meaning the lads could of played 4 league home games in an empty stadium,FF madness would of meant 276,000 seats were empty or the lads could of played around 12 games in an entirely empty stadium.I suggest the 230,507 figure does not warrant or need the 22k stadium.........IMO of course.

Another way to look at it is to say a poor team (we were poor that season) in a run down ground (Roots hall, great though it is, is hardly brand new) still managed to fill 81.5% of their ground on average. Not bad eh?

Stats, don't you just love 'em?

 

[weststander]

Would also like to add that during the championship season which was of course only 3 years ago here are my little stats for you to savour?

The Halls capacity is 12300 meaning over 23 league games total capacity is 282,900 yet only 230,507 attended meaning the lads could of played 4 league home games in an empty stadium,FF madness would of meant 276,000 seats were empty or the lads could of played around 12 games in an entirely empty stadium.I suggest the 230,507 figure does not warrant or need the 22k stadium.........IMO of course.

Roots Hall may have 12,300 seats (12,500 according to the official website), i will conceed that but there will never be an occasion when every seat will be sold ! This is because the police insist on a certain amount allocated for the away fans and also a segregation area for safety reasons (We only managed 11,532 for the Man Utd match). The approximate amount of fans that can be accomodated in the stadium is around 11,500. Thus, using your figures for the Championship season the total capacity available is 264,500 which means that there were only 33,933 or an average of 1477 per game. When you consider that some away teams only bought followings of 1000 or so that means that 1000 seats were unused and unusable in the stadium, that would leave 477 of which there are plenty of severely restricted view tickets (Back row of south upper, first row of south lower and first row of west stand) lets for arguements sake say 250 of them leaves only 227 home seats per game that were unoccupied ! And even some of that could be accounted for in holidays, sickness and evening games.

Now think about a nice 22,000 seater stadium, our average last year was 8,000ish it would enable the club to do offers like Leyton Orient, bring a friend for free which could potentially bring in a crowd of 16/18000 or and offer like Col U where NHS staff get tickets for a fiver which could bolster the crowd. We have in the past done offers for school children and we could possibly give 2,000 per game to encourage them to follow us. Then in a generations time (yes i am looking very long term) they might just bring their 2.4 children to watch and that 2,000 is now 6,800 more. We will be in the new stadium for a very long time, we wont fill it week in week out but in 25 years time whoknows ??