Ok so 'B' teams are out. Feeder clubs are out. What SHOULD we do?

[Blue_Wes]

Wes, do you not think that these players get so hyped and English players are so expensive because the number of genuinely quality footballers being produced is so small? It is just supply and demand.

On another forum I post on there's a fair number of people who have been critical of Jack Wilshere since he came through. They just don't see what he has done to justify the hype. To me it seems obvious why he was hyped and why he was fast-tracked into the England set-up - it is because whilst he might not have done anything yet he is so un-English in terms of his ability to take the ball under pressure and move it on. It is that sort of player that we don't produce.

Ideally we wouldn't be fast-tracking the likes of Wilshere and Barkley into the England team because we'd have the 25/26 year old Wilshere and Barkley already there. But we're not in that position.

It is, and because of the rarity the cost of them is over inflated, and reduces the number of them given opportunites at big clubs with the better facilities and opportunites (well documented by Les Reed via Pubey's post) as they would rather spend less money on an already established imported talent. By increasing the number of English players that a top flight side must inlcude in their ranks, albeit starting XI or match day squad, it increases the number of English players exposed to top flight football, giving more the opportunity to develop into the players that we are crying out for. And as the pool of players within the top flight increases, the cost of them should reduce encouraging home grown recruiting further, and the more players there are operating in the top flight, the greater the chance there is of producing players of an international calibre. This then gives greater benefit to smaller clubs, as it then encourages the Premier League to invest their money in buying from English clubs rather than sending their money abroad.

In theory.

 

[Beefy]

Anyone understand the legalities of capping the number non-English players in a side? The story has always been that restrictions on EU players would be against European law but such restrictions exist in the top divisions in cricket and rugby.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

This doesn't happen though, because of the hype you mention. A young English player starts to show some promise, and the hype and value that surrounds the player sky rockets. All of a sudden a player who has shown a bit of promise is slapped with a £5million price tag, simply because he's English. It's no wonder Premisership clubs go abroad, they can buy established players for half the price, often internationals and with European experience. Also we are so guilty of hamstringing young players with expectation. We are so desperate for succes we lay all our hopes and dreams at the feet of any player with promise, and a young prospect, has to grow, develop, learn his trade all whilst carrying the unrealistic expectation's of the nation.

Their price isn't high because they are English. If they are Welsh, Scottish, Nigerian, Argentinian etc and playing in England they'd still be valued the same.

Take someone like Berbatov. He joined Spurs from the Bundersliga for about £10m. He then moved to Man U for £30m.
He was the same player but he was a safer purchase as he was proven in English football.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Anyone understand the legalities of capping the number non-English players in a side? The story has always been that restrictions on EU players would be against European law but such restrictions exist in the top divisions in cricket and rugby.

No they don't. See the number of Kolpak players.

Cricket it's less of an issue as England are the only test playing side in the EU and the EU don't therefore care about it.

The ECB have tried to instead incentivise counties to play England qualified young players by linking the ECB grant to number of young England qualified youngsters fielded.

This has probably weakened county cricket (although the IPL and the ECB taking ownership of English players has probably had a bigger impact).

 

[Jam_Man]

Anyone understand the legalities of capping the number non-English players in a side? The story has always been that restrictions on EU players would be against European law but such restrictions exist in the top divisions in cricket and rugby.

Doesnt Italy still have a limit?

This seems to suggest so

http://pdacquaviva.com/2013/07/02/2013-non-eu-italian-quota-system-an-explanation/

 

[Beefy]

That's a limit on non-EU players no? Not a limit on non-Italian players.

 

[Jam_Man]

Thats the problem with freedom of employment throughout Europe, has to apply to football as well.

Wheres UKIP when you need them...

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

The answer is get a cultural exemption, similar to that the French get for their TV programming/cinema/music on radio.

However the clubs would be opposed to this and politicians aren't wanting to upset the clubs.

 

[Smiffy]

As someone heavily involved in grassroots football. It is obvious what I will say...

• More money is needed to improve facilities at grassroots level. There are not enough 3G pitches to cope with the crap weather. I think the report suggested there is ONE 3G pitch for every 23,000 players in England. Compared to ONE in 8,000 in Germany. If the kids are not playing regularly, how will they improve?

• The local councils need to stop mugging grassroots clubs off. The fee's they charge to use total toilet pitches, is bang out of order.

• More coaches are needed. And the FA need to make the courses much more affordable. £150 for a Level 1 course is a joke and you don't really learn a lot if I'm honest.

The FA seem to be forgetting that pretty much every single pro footballer in this country, will have played for a local youth grassroots club at some point. Before they moved into the pro game. More funding is needed to keep that supply line going and to improve it. Without grassroots youth football clubs, where the hell are the future England players going to learn how to even kick a ball?

The coaches at these clubs give up and huge amount of their time for nothing (I for example give up around 5hrs a week) to help kids learn to play the game and hopefully one day move into a Pro Academy. But the clubs are run on a shoe-string and are reliant on fundraisers to be able to keep supplying equipment, paying pitch fee's, ref fee's, registration fee's you name it. The out-goings are endless and keep rising and to get a grant for pennies is so difficult, a lot of clubs just don't bother.

Christ, just 1 day of someone like Rooney's wage, would sort out a few grassroots clubs for a whole season!

So I say bollox to all the FA plans. They need to start going back to basics and supporting the clubs that produce this countrys talent in the first place. Without them, there is no football.

 

[buffalowolf]

Better coaches from their junior days onwards
a national under 21 league,with allowances for 3 over age players
regional under 18 leagues.
better training facitlies
more all weather pitches
and finally a complete overall of the F,A

 

[Pubey]

Also, banning parents of being within 20 yards of a football match that their under 16 is playing in.

 

[buffalowolf]

Yeah that too Pubey ,they can be a pest,not only to their kids but also the caoch etc

 

[londonblue]

Also, banning parents of being within 20 yards of a football match that their under 16 is playing in.

My five year old had some trials yesterday. We didn't tell him they were trials because we didn't want him to panic, and also because they take everyone! The people that ran the trials also run the local league, and they assign each player to a team based on ability. That way they try to ensure the teams are balanced.

Because I was at Burton I didn't go, but my wife texted me to say that there plenty of fathers on the side of the pitch shouting instructions!

They're five years old for heaven's sake. Let them enjoy it!

 

[mrsblue]

My five year old had some trials yesterday. We didn't tell him they were trials because we didn't want him to panic, and also because they take everyone! The people that ran the trials also run the local league, and they assign each player to a team based on ability. That way they try to ensure the teams are balanced.

Because I was at Burton I didn't go, but my wife texted me to say that there plenty of fathers on the side of the pitch shouting instructions!

They're five years old for heaven's sake. Let them enjoy it!

According to Parents,

Coaches are useless,
Managers are useless,
The tactics are useless,

I help coach an under 11 team and the manager must be mad to put up with crazy parents and their antics.

The main question to this thread.
1.Every prem and chaimpionship team must play 4 English players in every game rising to 6 in domestic cup games.
Comference to become league 3 with 4 up and 4 down form league 2.

 

[Pubey]

According to Parents,

Coaches are useless,
Managers are useless,
The tactics are useless,

I help coach an under 11 team and the manager must be mad to put up with crazy parents and their antics.

The main question to this thread.
1.Every prem and chaimpionship team must play 4 English players in every game rising to 6 in domestic cup games.
Comference to become league 3 with 4 up and 4 down form league 2.

How does this help?

 

[mrsblue]

[/B]

How does this help?

The conference players then have a better chance of progressing into the top divisions and possibly gaining full caps.
Making every team in the top 2 divisions field at least 4 English players means at least every week there will be a minimum of 176 lads actually playing which can only help England.

 

[Jam_Man]

The conference players then have a better chance of progressing into the top divisions and possibly gaining full caps.
Making every team in the top 2 divisions field at least 4 English players means at least every week there will be a minimum of 176 lads actually playing which can only help England.

I'm all for the English limit, although 4 probably a bit too high.

I dont see any benefit in the conference part though, if a player really is good enough to rise up to England level he will be signed from the Conference side anyway.

 

[mrsblue]

I'm all for the English limit, although 4 probably a bit too high.

I dont see any benefit in the conference part though, if a player really is good enough to rise up to England level he will be signed from the Conference side anyway.

How many players released by league clubs end up in the conference where their club are very limited in ever gaining promotion,Kightly went from conference and played prem and I thought without his injury could have played international full cap level,Boyd another conference player who now plays in the prem.

Give some of them a chance and they may deliver.

 

[buffalowolf]

As i ve said before , EU cannot argue if clubs were allowed to sign as many foriegn players as they like ,but the FA should restrict the number allowed on the ground at any one time to 6 ,always making sure that every club has at least 5 English players on the ground throughout the game.This way all those big clubs would need to sign or produce through their academys more English talent.

 

[RobM]

When I was a kid, we played street games. Yes, football included. Now, kids are on their arses with an Xbox. That, to me, says it all.