Opinions

[Angell Delight]

Luggy has said we need to win our home games and draw our away games and if we do that we'll win promotion. I would suggest we have more chance of doing it the other way around.......

 

[Bromley Blue]

I think Mark Gower would disagree.

I'm not discounting the efforts of Gower, Flavs, Freddy or any of the other key players from that era mate. But my point was that we had similarly limited players in that side as we do today with the likes of Gilbert and Kalala. But because of the way Maher played he made those players look better than they were coz he always gave them the easy pass. Gower didn't do that and why should he when he was left wing for us but he did score some great goals and was our main creative outlet in a similar way that Ryan Hall is today.

 

[southchurch]

I do feel a bit sorry for the more skillfull players like ,Grant and Hall. I think they struggle to cope with the direct football becuase they want to get it down and play through the middle. Is it coincidence that Grant and now Hall have lost their old magic.

 

[southendkid]

I do feel a bit sorry for the more skillfull players like ,Grant and Hall. I think they struggle to cope with the direct football becuase they want to get it down and play through the middle. Is it coincidence that Grant and now Hall have lost their old magic.

Since Hall has been playing well most of the season, when we had been playing direct most of the season, yes it is a coincidence, a mixture of player mentality and the opposition identifying him as the key threat is why his form has dipped. As for Grant he just doesn't seem to be the player he was last season, I don't think you can blame tactics, look at his shots he's taken this year, most in the first half of last year were threatening the keeper, this season they are usually miles wide or have no power, he needs to find his form, maybe his morale is low from not being picked but I'm not sure it has much to do with tactics

 

[SARF]

With Tilson there was less knocking it long to a big man up front, and more knocking it long for a fast man to run onto

 

[Norwichshrimper]

I'm not discounting the efforts of Gower, Flavs, Freddy or any of the other key players from that era mate. But my point was that we had similarly limited players in that side as we do today with the likes of Gilbert and Kalala. But because of the way Maher played he made those players look better than they were coz he always gave them the easy pass. Gower didn't do that and why should he when he was left wing for us but he did score some great goals and was our main creative outlet in a similar way that Ryan Hall is today.

What this man here said. Under a whole number of managers (for the 100th time, this isn't a Tilson/Sturrock argument), we didn't play such a direct style of football because for the best part of 10 years everything went through Kevin Maher....even when we had Eastwood and Gower at their best Maher was still the central focus of every move. So the ball went through the middle rather than over the middle. Whether you loved him or hated him (and I can never understand those) as Saafender said he was always available for the easy pass which kept the move going. Peter Gilbert (for example) doesn't have the option of players coming short from midfield to take the ball off him. Maybe this is because the midfield are instructed not to come short to get the ball, or maybe it's because our midfield lack the quality to play that role.

As a final comparison (purely as an example)...look at our 2004/5 promotion side against this seasons (perhaps promotion season). You can discount the Eastwood/Gower v Hall/Dickinson argument....for me what is key is the centre of the team.

2004/2005 : Maher : Ball Playing Defensive Midfielder, dictated play, good passeer
2011/2012 : Kalala : Rugby Playing Defensive Midfielder, can barely pass water

That's not a criticism of Kalala, he works hard and if players do that I can ask no more....but if you took out Kevin Maher from any team and replaced him with Kalala you are going to run into difficulties trying to play football. (Though I accept Maher would have been equally out of place playing in a team like this seasons).

 

[Firestorm]

Maher was poor for the first couple of seasons, but so was the whole team
Comparing him with jp is unfair though JP breaks down opposition play far more than Maher did. Timlin would be a better comparison regarding the distributing type of midfield player

 

[OldBlueLady]

With Tilson there was less knocking it long to a big man up front, and more knocking it long for a fast man to run onto

Yes, it went from defence to midfield forward for whoever was up front to run onto - it worked very well for Barney.

Maher was poor for the first couple of seasons, but so was the whole team
Comparing him with jp is unfair though JP breaks down opposition play far more than Maher did. Timlin would be a better comparison regarding the distributing type of midfield player

Maher was fairly hated for his first few seasons, I hadn't been for a while and was astonished to hear the criticism and vitriol from the East Stand (where our seats were at the time). And I agree Timlin is a better comparison, Kalala's job is very different to what Maher's was.

 

[Norwichshrimper]

Maher was poor for the first couple of seasons, but so was the whole team
Comparing him with jp is unfair though JP breaks down opposition play far more than Maher did. Timlin would be a better comparison regarding the distributing type of midfield player

It wasn't a direct comparison...my point was that Kevin Maher was there, and now he isn't.

And again as for him being poor that argument can (and probably will) roll on forever. The only question I have is in those years when we flirted with the Trap Door would we have survived if our midfield had been Simon Livett and Stuart Thurgood?

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

Yes, it went from defence to midfield forward for whoever was up front to run onto - it worked very well for Barney.

Barney wasnt quick. Barney looked good when the ball was played to his feet.

 

[Norwichshrimper]

Yes, it went from defence to midfield forward for whoever was up front to run onto - it worked very well for Barney.


Maher was fairly hated for his first few seasons, I hadn't been for a while and was astonished to hear the criticism and vitriol from the East Stand (where our seats were at the time). And I agree Timlin is a better comparison, Kalala's job is very different to what Maher's was.

As before...apologies if I was unclear. I didn't mean a direct comparison between Maher and Kalalalalalala. My point was that the team is now set up differently and the most defensive (or deeper lying whatever you prefer) midfielders role is now completely different....With the best will in the world Ferdinand or Kalala are not going to come deep and take the ball off the defenders and build from there as Maher liked to do. They don't have the same qualities to do that. I don't really see that sort of player in Timlin either.

 

[Beefy]

It wouldn't matter if we had Maher in the team now as the ball generally bypasses the midfield anyway.

IMO, the players generally looked to give the ball to Gower first anyway. All of our play went through the G-Man who'd then give it to Eastwood.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

Think someone else picked up on this but why is the manager so concerning himself with fans forums ? Comparing his style to previous managers and other teams concerns me a little - isn't he his own man? I certainly thought so. I must say if the constant Discussing and bad mouthing from some on here is getting to him then I'm really shocked. It's all counter productive anyway, carry on booing our own players and all confidence and team spirit will evaporate. The players simply won't care playing in front of a crowd who don't support them - it's human nature. Most on here no doubt were top notch pro's so know exactly what they are talking about ?
This is the fourth tier of English football - we are skint - Sturrock is here to get us up and keep us up - those unhappy with this may want to go to the emirates for their entertainment.

 

[fbm]

Think someone else picked up on this but why is the manager so concerning himself with fans forums ? Comparing his style to previous managers and other teams concerns me a little - isn't he his own man? I certainly thought so. I must say if the constant Discussing and bad mouthing from some on here is getting to him then I'm really shocked. It's all counter productive anyway, carry on booing our own players and all confidence and team spirit will evaporate. The players simply won't care playing in front of a crowd who don't support them - it's human nature. Most on here no doubt were top notch pro's so know exactly what they are talking about ?
This is the fourth tier of English football - we are skint - Sturrock is here to get us up and keep us up - those unhappy with this may want to go to the emirates for their entertainment.

He is obviously aware of the dissenting voices at Roots Hall and feels (probably correctly) that the crowd comments are adversely affecting the way we play and the players confidence.

He has taken the time to try and explain his methods on here so as to get the fans onside as much as possible. I'm guessing he was hoping we would all have a "lightbulb moment" of clarity, accept what we're doing and then we can become the twelfth man at The Hall, as we have on all too few occasions this season (Shrewsbury is the only one that springs to mind).

I also guess he has maybe realised that he is probably banging his head against a brick wall and has conceded defeat on that particular point.

As I said before, can't say I blame him.

 

[londonblue]

When Tilly was in charge I was a big fan of his. I liked his him because he was successful, and because he only got the job by default whilst RM looked further afield. Tilly basically proved him wrong, and that struck a chord with me.

However, IMO the only difference between the style of play then and now is that Tilly said he liked his teams to play the ball on the floor, and then sent the team out to hit a target man (most of the time) whereas PS says he likes his teams to get the ball forward quicky, and then send the team out to hit a target man (most of the time). In my opinion the only difference is how the two managers describe their styles.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

When Tilly was in charge I was a big fan of his. I liked his him because he was successful, and because he only got the job by default whilst RM looked further afield. Tilly basically proved him wrong, and that struck a chord with me.

However, IMO the only difference between the style of play then and now is that Tilly said he liked his teams to play the ball on the floor, and then sent the team out to hit a target man (most of the time) whereas PS says he likes his teams to get the ball forward quicky, and then send the team out to hit a target man (most of the time). In my opinion the only difference is how the two managers describe their styles.

We didnt have a target man type forward playing regularly in our league 2 promotion season so that ones out of the window. Gray was the closest thing to an outlet with his pace but he was certainly not a target man. If we used Freddy as a target man he wouldnt of been anywhere near as effective.....you would of had a similar result as Harris has this season.

When we got promoted both times opposition managers commented at how excellent our football was. This season opposition managers have praised us that we're a good organised, hardworking side but not great footballing side.

 

[blue79]

Do you its feasible to say that Harris wasn't necessarily a Sturrock signing?

 

[Beefy]

I may be well off on this but I never got the impression that Tilly sent his players out with any real set tactical plan beyond the basic formation and organisation. The impression I got was that Tilly was a man manager who encouraged his players to have faith in their ability and to try things without being worried about making mistakes. When the match started the players took it from there.

Up until the League One Play-Off season anyway. The last two full seasons there seemed to be more specific tactics in play as the bulk of the players who he'd had so much faith in in the first few years had all left.

Do you its feasible to say that Harris wasn't necessarily a Sturrock signing?

He's certainly neither a Sturrock forward nor is he the different type of striker that Sturrock said that he was looking for as an alternative (ie pacey).

That said I doubt he was brought in above Sturrock's head. I'm sure there must have been some agreement that this was a good signing.

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

Tilly wanted to win and win in style, Luggy just cares about winning, that is the difference. Both successful in their own ways.

 

[londonblue]

We didnt have a target man type forward playing regularly in our league 2 promotion season so that ones out of the window. Gray was the closest thing to an outlet with his pace but he was certainly not a target man. If we used Freddy as a target man he wouldnt of been anywhere near as effective.....you would of had a similar result as Harris has this season.

True, but that was only because Bramble was even worse than Gray! So, yes, we didn't hit a target man, we just hit the ball long into space on the wings for Gray and whoever else to chase. Isn't that more hit and hope than playing the long ball to a player?