People's ideas of Attacking /defending

[duncan bulgaria]

After reading most posts of this season on here , and especially last night , something has got me a little baffled. On how people judge a good defender/ forward.

For a start my take on defending is as long as you clear your lines and don't let anything past you,then if the ball ends up over the east stand then so beit,It is his job to defend not to look fancy.

Too many times last season as with this , Clarke has tried the fancy defending and has put us in deep sh8t, same as Sodje .

We finally get a defender who is good in the air and clears his lines , and we are banging on how he is just hoofing the ball all night .
For me i would drop Clarke as for a so called experienced player , he doesn't command his back four enough and positioning is questionable as is his ariel abilty and pace , time for a shake up there .

IMO we have the one of the best midfields in this league so i'm happy with them.

But as for our forwards,first job of a forward is to score goals period !!!
something that no matter how well their hold up play is , they are and always will be judge on how many goals they score.
People can argue that some of them are target men, well if that is the case then i'd love to play against them , not aggressive enough , no pace , not much movement and no goal theat .

I feel the panic button shouldn't be pressed just yet but certainly a bit of a shake up is in order , winning games breeds confidence and we can't seem to get into that habit at the moment .
The gills game is massive as they are a very poor team and if we lose that one then our confidence will be rock bottom and Tilly will have a very tough job on his hands to pick the boys up after that.

 

[SUFC_Al]

I refer you to Alan Hansen's philosophy on defending....

"If in doubt, launch it".

 

[limpshrimp]

For a start my take on defending is as long as you clear your lines and don't let anything past you,then if the ball ends up over the east stand then so beit,It is his job to defend not to look fancy.

Too many times last season as with this , Clarke has tried the fancy defending and has put us in deep sh8t, same as Sodje .

We finally get a defender who is good in the air and clears his lines , and we are banging on how he is just hoofing the ball all night .
For me i would drop Clarke as for a so called experienced player , he doesn't command his back four enough and positioning is questionable as is his ariel abilty and pace , time for a shake up there .

IMO we have the one of the best midfields in this league so i'm happy with them.

Well said, totally agree, at least Richards clears his lines, francis, barratt, Richards, wilson for me on Sat

 

[Jam_Man]

As Ive said elsewhere Richards did well last night, won every header, didnt make any mistakes and kept Paul Benson quiet.

Clarke didnt play as well and since he came here as always made mistakes. I do think he is a good player and is completely committed but think Barrett and Richards would be my choice after last night.

It was however only one game so we will have

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

After reading most posts of this season on here , and especially last night , something has got me a little baffled. On how people judge a good defender/ forward.

For a start my take on defending is as long as you clear your lines and don't let anything past you,then if the ball ends up over the east stand then so beit,It is his job to defend not to look fancy.

Too many times last season as with this , Clarke has tried the fancy defending and has put us in deep sh8t, same as Sodje .

We finally get a defender who is good in the air and clears his lines , and we are banging on how he is just hoofing the ball all night .
For me i would drop Clarke as for a so called experienced player , he doesn't command his back four enough and positioning is questionable as is his ariel abilty and pace , time for a shake up there .

IMO we have the one of the best midfields in this league so i'm happy with them.

But as for our forwards,first job of a forward is to score goals period !!!
something that no matter how well their hold up play is , they are and always will be judge on how many goals they score.
People can argue that some of them are target men, well if that is the case then i'd love to play against them , not aggressive enough , no pace , not much movement and no goal theat .

I feel the panic button shouldn't be pressed just yet but certainly a bit of a shake up is in order , winning games breeds confidence and we can't seem to get into that habit at the moment .
The gills game is massive as they are a very poor team and if we lose that one then our confidence will be rock bottom and Tilly will have a very tough job on his hands to pick the boys up after that.

I totally agree with your view on Clarke, I have said it ever sinse he signed, why on earth some on here think he is fantastic, I will never know, as he quite simply is not. Also agree on Richards.

As for the strikers, it is very difficult for strikers to score goals, when the midfield create nothing for them

 

[Somerset Ex-TTB]

How many clean sheets have we kept since Clarke arrived in the defence? We have only had two this season, and he didn't play in one of them!

As I said on another note, although Clarke looks like a good defender, and is always making tackles etc. a defender is judged on the number of clean sheets kept.

We had one of the best defences in League 2, and League 1. We then brought Clarke in and have shipped goals left right and centre since.

All the other aspects of the defence are almost the same, Flahaven, Barrett, Wilson. Only Jupp for Hunt/Gilbert/Francis is the other change, and all of them are better players than Jupp.

 

[duncan bulgaria]

How many clean sheets have we kept since Clarke arrived in the defence? We have only had two this season, and he didn't play in one of them!

As I said on another note, although Clarke looks like a good defender, and is always making tackles etc. a defender is judged on the number of clean sheets kept.

We had one of the best defences in League 2, and League 1. We then brought Clarke in and have shipped goals left right and centre since.

All the other aspects of the defence are almost the same, Flahaven, Barrett, Wilson. Only Jupp for Hunt/Gilbert/Francis is the other change, and all of them are better players than Jupp.

Although we are playing at a higher level than when spinner , edwards were helping us in league 2 , it is clearly obvious that we are missing a solid , experienced old head at the back .

Forget Eastwood , Spinner has been a massive loss for us that we have not managed to fill , some of our defending at times is laughable .

 

[Jam_Man]

How many clean sheets have we kept since Clarke arrived in the defence? We have only had two this season, and he didn't play in one of them!

As I said on another note, although Clarke looks like a good defender, and is always making tackles etc. a defender is judged on the number of clean sheets kept.

We had one of the best defences in League 2, and League 1. We then brought Clarke in and have shipped goals left right and centre since.
All the other aspects of the defence are almost the same, Flahaven, Barrett, Wilson. Only Jupp for Hunt/Gilbert/Francis is the other change, and all of them are better players than Jupp.

Thats over simplistic though, you are completely omitting the fact that when we bought Clarke we then played in a higher division against tougher teams. He didnt play for a good part of the season and we still conceded plenty...

Clarke is a decent defender and Id be happy enough with him in the side. He has had some superb performances for us and is completely committed. However he is prone to errors which he got away with a lot last season and my preference based on last night would be to have Barrett and Richards, however that was just one game and Richards needs more games before we can really judge his worth.

 

[Mr. Benedict]

As I said on another note, although Clarke looks like a good defender, and is always making tackles etc. a defender is judged on the number of clean sheets kept.

We had one of the best defences in League 2, and League 1. We then brought Clarke in and have shipped goals left right and centre since.

Agreed. Clarke does look like good defender, but I feel he is betrayed by very silly mistakes which we invariably get punished for.
Whatever, I certainly don't think the Barrett-Clarke central partnership is solid enough.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

If a defender's team stops the opposition scoring he's done his job, if a forward's team is scoring, then he is doing his job.

We've statistically the worse defence in the division, and we've scored at least one in every game we've played this year.

 

[BrettieAngell]

I would put Richards in for Clarke.

Clarke is too prone too errors and it is costing us plus Richards extra height will come in handy.

 

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

Although we are playing at a higher level than when spinner , edwards were helping us in league 2 , it is clearly obvious that we are missing a solid , experienced old head at the back .

Forget Eastwood , Spinner has been a massive loss for us that we have not managed to fill , some of our defending at times is laughable .

I agree, Spinner was so important to us, he played a very underrated role during his second spell with the club. My dad provided me with some interesting stats from last season with regard to the central defensive partnerships. The average number of goals conceded per partnership was:

Prior/Sodje 1.2
Prior/Barrett 1.5
Barrett/Clarke 1.73
Clarke/Sodje 1.77
Barrett/Sodje 2.33 (only played 3 games together)

So statistically, Spinner was our best defender even last year, his partnership with Sodje couldn't be breached even by Manchester United who were restricted to long range efforts against us.

I think the Barrett/Clarke combination is a disaster, especially if a short keeper is behind them. I thought Richards was superb last night, he was fantastic in the air, he must play in the team from now on. Although I don't rate Clarke too highly I'd play him alongside Richards as he is quicker than Barrett. I'd move Barrett to left back as I always feel he plays well in that postition. The right back berth I'd let Hunt and Francis compete over, both I feel are better and offer more height/strength than Gilbert.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I agree, Spinner was so important to us, he played a very underrated role during his second spell with the club. My dad provided me with some interesting stats from last season with regard to the central defensive partnerships. The average number of goals conceded per partnership was:

Prior/Sodje 1.2
Prior/Barrett 1.5
Barrett/Clarke 1.73
Clarke/Sodje 1.77
Barrett/Sodje 2.33 (only played 3 games together)

So statistically, Spinner was our best defender even last year, his partnership with Sodje couldn't be breached even by Manchester United who were restricted to long range efforts against us.

I think the Barrett/Clarke combination is a disaster, especially if a short keeper is behind them. I thought Richards was superb last night, he was fantastic in the air, he must play in the team from now on. Although I don't rate Clarke too highly I'd play him alongside Richards as he is quicker than Barrett. I'd move Barrett to left back as I always feel he plays well in that postition. The right back berth I'd let Hunt and Francis compete over, both I feel are better and offer more height/strength than Gilbert.

Interesting stats.

Not surprised that our best defence was with Spinner in, the bloke was immense and his contribution to those consecutive promotions was criminally underrated by the fans. I am however surprised that Barrett and Clarke was statistically better than when Sodje partnered either of them.

My first choice defence would probably be the four who played last night. Lewis Hunt improves us defensively so much with his ability to read play and cover the centre-halves. I think long-term Barrett is more suited to left-back than centre-back, but would consider a Richards and Barrett partnership.

 

[duncan bulgaria]

Interesting stats.

Not surprised that our best defence was with Spinner in, the bloke was immense and his contribution to those consecutive promotions was criminally underrated by the fans. I am however surprised that Barrett and Clarke was statistically better than when Sodje partnered either of them.

My first choice defence would probably be the four who played last night. Lewis Hunt improves us defensively so much with his ability to read play and cover the centre-halves. I think long-term Barrett is more suited to left-back than centre-back, but would consider a Richards and Barrett partnership.

I would have when fit , gilbert barrett richards hammell

just to see how things go , can't do no harm as we desperately need to tighten things at the back , once done then maybe our midfield can push on a bit , with knowing that we won't give away silly goals .

 

[Jam_Man]

I wouldnt play Barrett left back. He played well last night against a poor league 2 side, but I want a full back who can support the winger properly.

Barrett actually got a decent cross in last night but he looks like a centreback when he is in the last 3rd.

However his shot was excellent!

Id have Barrett in the middle over clarke, Clarke may be quicker but he makes far too many mistakes.

 

[Streaky]

I have never been a fan of Peter Clarke and am constanly surprised by the support he has on here. Looked out of his depth in Championship and now its the same in L1.

I was suprised that Francis didnt get a start last night, although he can cover CB or RB so ideal sub.

My choice of back four for Saturday would be..

RB Gilbert
CB Richards
CB Bazza
LB Wilson

 

[stevietheshrimper]

Hallelujah!

People are actually seeing how poor Clarke is at last.

He plays-we concede.

Crowd pleasing tackles are simply not enough when we let so many goals in.

 

[Beefy]

After reading most posts of this season on here , and especially last night , something has got me a little baffled. On how people judge a good defender/ forward.

For a start my take on defending is as long as you clear your lines and don't let anything past you,then if the ball ends up over the east stand then so beit,It is his job to defend not to look fancy.

Too many times last season as with this , Clarke has tried the fancy defending and has put us in deep sh8t, same as Sodje .

We finally get a defender who is good in the air and clears his lines , and we are banging on how he is just hoofing the ball all night .
For me i would drop Clarke as for a so called experienced player , he doesn't command his back four enough and positioning is questionable as is his ariel abilty and pace , time for a shake up there .

IMO we have the one of the best midfields in this league so i'm happy with them.

But as for our forwards,first job of a forward is to score goals period !!!
something that no matter how well their hold up play is , they are and always will be judge on how many goals they score.
People can argue that some of them are target men, well if that is the case then i'd love to play against them , not aggressive enough , no pace , not much movement and no goal theat .

I feel the panic button shouldn't be pressed just yet but certainly a bit of a shake up is in order , winning games breeds confidence and we can't seem to get into that habit at the moment .
The gills game is massive as they are a very poor team and if we lose that one then our confidence will be rock bottom and Tilly will have a very tough job on his hands to pick the boys up after that.

I agree about the defenders. I'm actually rather pleased that we've now got a big defender who's idea of a short pass is one that stays inside the stadium. We could do with some no-nonsense defending and in both of his starts Richards has looked like that's what he does best.

Disagree about strikers though. As Yorkshire Blue said, you have to judge them on the number of team goals we're scoring more than just the number that they themselves are getting. If the midfield was just getting 25 yard thunderbolts like we were at the end of last season then I'd agree with you but the sort of goals they are getting (breaking beyond the strikers into the box) shows that the strikers are playing well. Bailey, McCormack, Gower & Foran are scoring because of the space that the strikers are creating with one tall striker coming slightly deeper than normal to meet the long ball which sucks the defensive line out towards him and the shorter striker (Hooper, MacDonald, Odhiambo) running accross the line of the back four and creating space for the midfielders to run into. It's what we weren't doing last season when all we were looking to do was get the ball to Freddy Eastwood as often as possible.

 

[* ORM *]

I wouldnt play Barrett left back. He played well last night against a poor league 2 side, but I want a full back who can support the winger properly.

Amen to that !!! I painfully remember his few attempts at left back for us in the past (Brentford away anyone ?). Fancy skills look great when they come off but put as right tin the sheite when they don't. It wouldn't be so bad if he had a right foot.

Don't get me wrong I thought he had a pretty good game last night but I'd stick Che straight back in at left back until Hammill's fully fit. At least Gower and Che have some sort of understanding (something along the lines of watch it Che, if Gower's got the ball on the edge of our own box he is liable to try to be clever and will end up giving the ball away).

An experienced and tall centre half seems to be the consensus here. Is Richards the answer ? Who knows ? but the Clarke/Barrett partnership has to be on its last legs. AB won't like being the one left out and will no doubt be off to Col Ewe in January (oops sorry- daydreaming again :p )

 

[Beefy]

Barrett has had far more good games at left back than bad ones. Brentford away keeps getting wheeled out but everyone was rubbish that night. Remember Goater getting booed off that night? Because I certainly do.