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Because for the period from 1998 - 2005, we were a sh*t club!!!

Is it me, or is everyone suffering from (a) collective amnesia, and (b) an overinflated sense of our own importance.

"Oh, but we were a Championship club last season!"

Well, we were in the Championship last season, but that was down to an extraodinary two seasons built almost entirely on the magic of Freddy and the solidity of Spinner & Sodje. Spinner retired, Efe got bored (as he appears wont to do) and opposition defences double-manned Fred... and we were f***ed.

We're in a far better situation than - after the ravages of Alvin Martin and the slow but steady decline under Little, Newman and Wignall - we have any legitimate right to expect. Our club had 8 consecutive seasons of decline. The damage to our club, and to our reputation, cannot be repaired overnight.

Add to that the fact that, realistically, we still haven't got much cash to spend and we are viewed, perhaps incorrectly, as a little bit of a footballing outpost in the middle of nowhere (no clubs near us, no local derbies, club full of local Essex boys) when in many respects a lot of the better-known lower league footballers and clubs are northern... and suddenly you begin to see a picture coming together of a club which might seem a little unappealing to your average player.

If you asked our current squad, how many of them have aspired at some stage in their careers to play for Southend United... how many of them are going to stick their hand up and say "yes"?

I'd guess at four of the current first team squad - Barrett (local boy), Maher (to prove the boo-boys wrong), Harrold (here as a child, I think), Moussa (a kid developing into a first team player). A further six may have joined simply because of Steve Tilson as a man and because of his achievements as a manager (Bailey, Francis, McCormack, McDonald, Scannell, Liptak).

And the rest are just pros, making a career... and those are the sorts of players whom we're only likely to pick up in the close season, when they're looking for a new deal or they've got nowhere else to go.

Unless you're a local lad - or unless you've met Tilly as part of the U21 set-up - what reason have most footballers got to join Southend United... a mid-table League One side who, it must be said, look highly unlikely to go up this season and who in all honestly overachieved for a couple of years thanks to Freddy & Spinner (but who, prior to that, were actually pretty sh*t for most of the last decade)?

:confused:

Yours, no doubt to be accused of being "rose-tinted" or "having no ambition",

Matt

But surely that your agruement that playing for Southend is hardly the pinacle of anyones careers could be levelled at every club in our division and yet a large number of the others seem to have made signings we would not have been too sad to have got.

Yeovil & Swindon are the arsehole of nowhere and can get decent players (Kirk and Ashikodi) and yet were 40 miles from London and cant seem to get anyone to come to us.

Surely something has to be questioned?
 
The problem is that we have wasted 23 days of this month already.

Wasted ?

Oh so Tilson and Ron Martin have just been sitting there have they ?

Being unsuccessful isnt the same as wasting it.

We have Scannell, who we paid 5k for as he had a release clause and would have been stupid to pay 200k for.

We were unlucky whatever you say with Walker. Yes we could have checked his full medical history but thats easy to say with hindsight isnt it.

Then theres Barnard who we have supposedly signed. (Unless theres news Ive not yet read)


Stuart Elliott, I fail to believe the only reason he stayed where he was is because of his children - I don't buy it personally, something else we did affected that move, I am sure of it.

Well if you are sure of it Im sure it must be true then.

I would have thought that a player with only a few years left on his career not keen to uproot his family would have been a realistic and believable outcome.

I guess Im not as cynical and negative as some though....
 
Yeovil & Swindon are the arsehole of nowhere and can get decent players (Kirk and Ashikodi) and yet were 40 miles from London and cant seem to get anyone to come to us.

Surely something has to be questioned?

Why are those two decent players ?

Neither interest me yet because they sign for someone else they are rated.

As for not being able to get anyone to come to us , Bailey came, Walker would have , Barnard is.

Why overlook the positives and focus on the negatives only ?
 
Why are those two decent players ?

Neither interest me yet because they sign for someone else they are rated.

As for not being able to get anyone to come to us , Bailey came, Walker would have , Barnard is.

Why overlook the positives and focus on the negatives only ?

Barnard is 23 years old and has been on loan to alot of clubs over the years. If he's that good, why have none of these clubs or anybody else for that matter put in a decent bid to sign him?
 
Barnard is 23 years old and has been on loan to alot of clubs over the years. If he's that good, why have none of these clubs or anybody else for that matter put in a decent bid to sign him?

Do you know for sure that nobody has bid for him?
Also it may be likely thst Spurs did not want to sell.
 
Everyone seems to be focussing on the last 23 days and that we have not made a signing. How about if we look back as far as the season we got promoted from league 2! I seem to remember comments from Tilson about us being lucky with injuries etc as we had such a small squad and that we needed more bodies to survive in League 1, then the same when we went to the Championship, and when we got relegated and went on an 18 match losing streak when we had Peter CLarke playing in midfield because guess what "we didn't have enough bodies".
Don't think this is a new problem and there must be a root cause, nobody wants to come here....but Tilson has been lauded as one of the bright and upcoming managers surely people would want to play for him.
I would guess it all comes down to cash and neither Ron or Tilly is prepared to be held to ransom by agents, would guess that is why Clarke and Morgan are not here now and beware folks Barnard hasn't signed yet, waiting for the .....another £30K has appeared post on the OS.

I believe we cannot get people in because we do not pay the dosh or that we pay it to a few but then we need to stock the rest of the squad with "cheapies alah McDonald, Hooper, and the new boy from Eastleigh.
Just a thought but not expecting anything between now and the 31st when we'll pick up some scraps that no one else wants
Anyway still have my ticket for Friday and will still be supporting the Blues!!
 

We're in a far better situation than - after the ravages of Alvin Martin and the slow but steady decline under Little, Newman and Wignall -

Matt



I would take out Little's name and add Dave Webb's name. His 3rd spell with the club was nothing short of a disaster. Sold all the best players and then cleared off just as the going got tough and a few fas were waking up to him as a manager.

Poor Alan Little was given a really raw deal in his time at Southend. 1st year wasn't brilliant but he was sacked when we were 6th in the 3rd Division the next season to make way for Webb to ruin things.
 
I would take out Little's name and add Dave Webb's name. His 3rd spell with the club was nothing short of a disaster. Sold all the best players and then cleared off just as the going got tough and a few fas were waking up to him as a manager.

Poor Alan Little was given a really raw deal in his time at Southend. 1st year wasn't brilliant but he was sacked when we were 6th in the 3rd Division the next season to make way for Webb to ruin things.

To be fair to Webb in this third incarnation his brief was to shed the club of some of the high earning Northern dross (Tinkler apart) that Little had burdened us with.
 
To be fair to Webb in this third incarnation his brief was to shed the club of some of the high earning Northern dross (Tinkler apart) that Little had burdened us with.

yeah Webbs whole remit was to sort out the contractual mess that John Main had put us in.

He unearthed some non-league diamonds: Flavs, Bramble, Williamson, Abbey and gave Forbes an extended run in the team.

On the downside he signed some utter crap - Webb Jr, Jason Harris, Belrgave, Dean "bob" Holness and Tony Roberts!
 
but surely he wasnt even a striker we were looking at and was only a panic buy in the first place.
Tilson: Whats the date Brushy?
Brush: January 12th.
Tilson: Blimey! The window shuts in just under 3 weeks! Better ring Peter Taylor and see if he has any tips for us.

*Then goes on to sign Walker that day*

Tilson: That's a relief, thank goodness we did that in time, but I'd have preferred it if we could have waited a week or two to see if someone decent would come, damn my nack of panicking in the window.
Brush: Better get Ron on the radio and announce this ASAP, just to make sure it gets through in time.










:guns:
 
Wasted ?

Oh so Tilson and Ron Martin have just been sitting there have they ?

Being unsuccessful isnt the same as wasting it.

We have Scannell, who we paid 5k for as he had a release clause and would have been stupid to pay 200k for.

We were unlucky whatever you say with Walker. Yes we could have checked his full medical history but thats easy to say with hindsight isnt it.

Then theres Barnard who we have supposedly signed. (Unless theres news Ive not yet read)




Well if you are sure of it Im sure it must be true then.

I would have thought that a player with only a few years left on his career not keen to uproot his family would have been a realistic and believable outcome.

I guess Im not as cynical and negative as some though....

Whichever way you choose to look at it, it's all semantics after all, have the first 23 days of this transfer window, Scammell aside, not been a waste then? I never once suggested that Tilly was not working hard to bring anyone in, but the simple truth is, for whatever reason, he has failed to do so. So yes, by definition, it's been a waste of time.

As for Lee Barnard, I haven't seen ANYWHERE that he has signed for us, have you? As far as I am aware, it is all SZ hearsay, and a rather less than convincing article in the Echo.

I don't agree we were unlucky with Walker - As I said at the time, it seemed to me it was a hasty decision by RM to suddenly announce he was signing, and it would seem on the face of it, not all of the relevant checks were carried out, and we ended up with egg on our faces - he had this condition since he was 14, so therefore, why did we announce he was being signed before we found out more information? Nothing to do with bad luck, just a lack of professionalism IMO.

Perhaps I am being cynical about the Elliott situation, but I have supported Southend for long enough now to know not everything is as it seems. He is hardly coming to the end of his career, and yes, footballers of ALL ages move up and down the country all the time, if the club and the move is right for him - something about us was clearly not. We may well be telling the truth, and he simply didn't want to uproot his family, but I am extremely sceptical about that - personal opinion.

As I speak, we are now down to 7 days left in this window, and with glaring errors not, on the face of it, being addressed in the side, it is of major concern we are still without the players we were led to believe would be arriving shortly.

I admire your faith and optimism JM, I really do, but this is turning into Groundhog Day all over again - Don't be surprised to see Bill Murray on the touchline Friday night!
 
I would take out Little's name and add Dave Webb's name. His 3rd spell with the club was nothing short of a disaster. Sold all the best players and then cleared off just as the going got tough and a few fas were waking up to him as a manager.

Poor Alan Little was given a really raw deal in his time at Southend. 1st year wasn't brilliant but he was sacked when we were 6th in the 3rd Division the next season to make way for Webb to ruin things.

As canveyshrimper has said, Little's spell at the club was little short of (potentially) ruinous. There are two sides two management: having a successful team... and balancing the books.

Sadly, 90% of fans appear not to give a toss about the latter... witness the wailing on here as yet another overpriced mercenary goes to another northern club that will shortly be on the phone to its creditors. Rotherham, anyone?

My recollection is that, under Little, players' wages alone (never mind staff wages, upkeep of the ground, etc.) were 123% of turnover.

Poor Little? My @rse. Under the combined auspices of Little, John Main and Peter Storrie, our club was going to the wall. You could have had half a season of us in 6th place... and then the club going bankrupt and reforming in the Ryman Premier.

David Webb saved our bacon the third time he came here, you'd better believe it. He's a key reason (along with Ron) as to why we're still here today.

And if the club has set its budgets for this season, then we'd better well stick to them. Better that we're still here in League One next season than spunking money we can't afford on a player who doesn't really want to be here and end up crashing in penury into the basement league. Let's not have another Jeroen Boere here again, eh? Once was bad enough for this lifetime.

Matt
 
As canveyshrimper has said, Little's spell at the club was little short of (potentially) ruinous. There are two sides two management: having a successful team... and balancing the books.

Sadly, 90% of fans appear not to give a toss about the latter... witness the wailing on here as yet another overpriced mercenary goes to another northern club that will shortly be on the phone to its creditors. Rotherham, anyone?

My recollection is that, under Little, players' wages alone (never mind staff wages, upkeep of the ground, etc.) were 123% of turnover.

Poor Little? My @rse. Under the combined auspices of Little, John Main and Peter Storrie, our club was going to the wall. You could have had half a season of us in 6th place... and then the club going bankrupt and reforming in the Ryman Premier.

David Webb saved our bacon the third time he came here, you'd better believe it. He's a key reason (along with Ron) as to why we're still here today.

And if the club has set its budgets for this season, then we'd better well stick to them. Better that we're still here in League One next season than spunking money we can't afford on a player who doesn't really want to be here and end up crashing in penury into the basement league. Let's not have another Jeroen Boere here again, eh? Once was bad enough for this lifetime.

Matt

As much as I echo your thoughts about Webby's final tenure in charge at the Hall, the picture you paint about us this season is a tad over dramatic.

Of course we have a budget to stick to, no one could possibly think we don't, but it is simply incomprehensible that we cannot compete with 80% of teams in this league when it comes to transfer fees and wages.

If we were in that kind of dire straits, then why is RM spouting on about how we were going to spend £200,000 on James Walker, and then even more on an unnamed striker later on in the month? If we can afford to spend half a million squid on 2 players, then it is unrealistic to think that there is no room left in the wage budget - if there isn't, then RM should say so and stop leading everyone up the garden path!

We are not the same club that Tilly took over 4 years ago, we have grown and evolved over that time, and all of it thanks to him, RM and Brushy. We no longer survive on average gates of 3,500, we are now averaging nearer 8,000, after a season in the Championship where we averaged 10,000, and received additional TV revenue, and not to mention transfer fees well in excess of 1.5 million pound with the sales of Freddy and JCR.

This is not the same small town club as it was 4 years ago, having to scrap the bottom of the barrel hoping we might come across someone who could turn out to be a star - we have much more clout than that now, and it does become a little tiresome when some people continue to think we are still that bottom of the table League Two side we were back then - if we're talking about history, most recently we were a Championship side - no, but we got promoted too soon, no we were punching above our weight, we were a Championship side, and with a couple of decent acquisitions this month, I see no reason why we could not be one again next season - at the very least, fighting it out in the play offs later on this season.

I'm sorry, but this theme has continued ever since Tilly has been in charge, and whilst it paid dividends the first couple of seasons, or perhaps lady luck was shining down on our injury list, it isn't working now, like it didn't work last season.

We need fresh bodies in to bolster this squad, pure and simple, and if none arrive, then I don't think any of the usual 'reasons' will cut the mustard with the majority of fans.
 
Has anyone got a list of all League One transfers this window?

I'd be interested to see how much each club has spent (and recouped).
 
As much as I echo your thoughts about Webby's final tenure in charge at the Hall, the picture you paint about us this season is a tad over dramatic.

Of course we have a budget to stick to, no one could possibly think we don't, but it is simply incomprehensible that we cannot compete with 80% of teams in this league when it comes to transfer fees and wages.

If we were in that kind of dire straits, then why is RM spouting on about how we were going to spend £200,000 on James Walker, and then even more on an unnamed striker later on in the month? If we can afford to spend half a million squid on 2 players, then it is unrealistic to think that there is no room left in the wage budget - if there isn't, then RM should say so and stop leading everyone up the garden path!

We are not the same club that Tilly took over 4 years ago, we have grown and evolved over that time, and all of it thanks to him, RM and Brushy. We no longer survive on average gates of 3,500, we are now averaging nearer 8,000, after a season in the Championship where we averaged 10,000, and received additional TV revenue, and not to mention transfer fees well in excess of 1.5 million pound with the sales of Freddy and JCR.

This is not the same small town club as it was 4 years ago, having to scrap the bottom of the barrel hoping we might come across someone who could turn out to be a star - we have much more clout than that now, and it does become a little tiresome when some people continue to think we are still that bottom of the table League Two side we were back then - if we're talking about history, most recently we were a Championship side - no, but we got promoted too soon, no we were punching above our weight, we were a Championship side, and with a couple of decent acquisitions this month, I see no reason why we could not be one again next season - at the very least, fighting it out in the play offs later on this season.

I'm sorry, but this theme has continued ever since Tilly has been in charge, and whilst it paid dividends the first couple of seasons, or perhaps lady luck was shining down on our injury list, it isn't working now, like it didn't work last season.

We need fresh bodies in to bolster this squad, pure and simple, and if none arrive, then I don't think any of the usual 'reasons' will cut the mustard with the majority of fans.


Can this post be pinned ? Says it all for me . In the end we have to decide whether we want to go back to being the sort of club we were in the pre -Freddy days or the club we became used to and which RM assures us he wants us to be again.

Its maybe a pity that we didn't invest more this time last year and retain our CCC status . Who knows we might have hung on to Freddy if we had done .

And lets make no mistake , our fortunes changed significantly upon his arrival , we dined out during his time here on the extra revenue and his transfer fee continues to secure our position now .

We shall see what happens over the next week - maybe we will get the Stadium decision just in time
 
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