Ron Martin, Please Get us out of This Embargo

[londonblue]

Rons a businessman (allegedly) and would have to pay a substantial amount of dough to get us out of the embargo. What, as a businessman, is this going to achieve? Do we need anyone? No, if the team gets crippled and we write a tear inducing letter to the FA, can we sign someone? yes.

What motivation can Ron have to clear the embargo when we're a couple of points from the top and we save money by being under embargo?

i just can't see the point. Ron is playing the system without any complaint from the league and I applaud him on that.

I think you need to read the original post. The point is that the time to try and act is now, whilst things are good. Let's not wait until it's too late.

 

[londonblue]

i think this embargo is working to our favour. Too many players means the sides gets tinkered with too often with chop and changes and players getting ****ed off being dropped etc. Stick to the same group of small players is the way to go

Not necessarily. It just means we have more options when people are suspended or injured. People can always "do a job" out of position, but I would rather we had a person that could do more than just a job, if possible.

 

[superblue24]

I think you need to read the original post. The point is that the time to try and act is now, whilst things are good. Let's not wait until it's too late.

But there's just no need to lift it at all in my opinion. The rules state that we can have a squad of 20 and that seems to have been enough up to now. Also, if we do get stung in any particular position we just end up getting dispensation from the league to sign someone else anyway (a'la Kiernan) despite being under the embargo. When has the embargo actually affected us in the transfer market? Which targets have we not been able to sign as a result of this embargo? I recall a few years ago before the season started and we needed to sign players and guess what, embargo lifted overnight. I really do think that the embargo mechanism is one the club have knowledge which (far) extends our own and Ron is playing the system very strategically (like it or hate it)

I just can't see any benefits from coming out of the embargo and will cost us money to do so. Freddy will be back soon, Laird played a section of the match last week and the rest of our absences aren't even injury related (Bennett aside) so will come back soon enough. On the whole, it just seems like it would be a luxury.

As far as your original post, I still disagree. If we had a time to lift the embargo, I think I would cite a more desperate time than right now given our league position and fairly manageable absentees....But again, even if we were desperate we might not need it lifted anyway.

 

[chapperzUK]

The only thing the embargo has stopped us doing was having a bigger squad and bringing in Kiernan early.

With a bigger squad, we would have a bigger wage bill and it would prevent players like Payne and Auger from getting on the bench or even playing.

At the moment we are doing well with a small squad especially as we have a few players injured and suspended.

 

[londonblue]

But there's just no need to lift it at all in my opinion. The rules state that we can have a squad of 20 and that seems to have been enough up to now. Also, if we do get stung in any particular position we just end up getting dispensation from the league to sign someone else anyway (a'la Kiernan) despite being under the embargo. When has the embargo actually affected us in the transfer market? Which targets have we not been able to sign as a result of this embargo? I recall a few years ago before the season started and we needed to sign players and guess what, embargo lifted overnight. I really do think that the embargo mechanism is one the club have knowledge which (far) extends our own and Ron is playing the system very strategically (like it or hate it)

I just can't see any benefits from coming out of the embargo and will cost us money to do so. Freddy will be back soon, Laird played a section of the match last week and the rest of our absences aren't even injury related (Bennett aside) so will come back soon enough. On the whole, it just seems like it would be a luxury.

As far as your original post, I still disagree. If we had a time to lift the embargo, I think I would cite a more desperate time than right now given our league position and fairly manageable absentees....But again, even if we were desperate we might not need it lifted anyway.

But why wait and take a risk? I, and you, have no idea of how many players we would have signed (or looked to sign) if we weren't in the position we're in. You may be able to speculate, but you and I don't really know.

 

[superblue24]

But why wait and take a risk? I, and you, have no idea of how many players we would have signed (or looked to sign) if we weren't in the position we're in. You may be able to speculate, but you and I don't really know.

But risk involves impact....What impact would we see if the team lost several players in one position? The league would allow an emergency signing as in Kiernans case and a repeat situation would see us sign someone else no doubt making the impact fairly minimal.

I agree on your point, but the fact we're third and on a great run indicates the embargo had no real bearing on our dealings during the summer in fact we had two spare spaces available quite late on. I haven't seen much which states "embargo stops SUFC from bringing in player X". In fact I recall a thread being started about how we couldn't bring in Kiernan because of the embargo and then a matter of hours later, another thread states we've signed him....(I think that was Kiernan, but lack of sleep this week making me forgetful and lazy)

On the whole, I see it as a minor inconvenience and I think Brown and Co view it the same.

 

[londonblue]

But risk involves impact....What impact would we see if the team lost several players in one position? The league would allow an emergency signing as in Kiernans case and a repeat situation would see us sign someone else no doubt making the impact fairly minimal.

I agree on your point, but the fact we're third and on a great run indicates the embargo had no real bearing on our dealings during the summer in fact we had two spare spaces available quite late on. I haven't seen much which states "embargo stops SUFC from bringing in player X". In fact I recall a thread being started about how we couldn't bring in Kiernan because of the embargo and then a matter of hours later, another thread states we've signed him....(I think that was Kiernan, but lack of sleep this week making me forgetful and lazy)

On the whole, I see it as a minor inconvenience and I think Brown and Co view it the same.

So this really comes down to having a different attitude to risk. You don't see this as a risk, and I do. That's fair enough. You are correct that up until now it has only been a minor inconvenience, and that is why I haven't made a big deal of it previously.

The point I am making is that up until now we have got away with it (which is the same as your view that it has only been a minor inconvenience). Injuries and suspensions have been timed well enough that we haven't been left too short. My point is that that luck may not last, and I would rather we strengthen the squad now rather than wait until it is too late.

However, as I said, this really comes down to different people having a different attitude to risk...

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Ron gave Luggy money and some he used wisely and some he didnt. I personally think Ron has learnt his lesson; however his reticence to give out the money has worked well in that Browny has been forced to develop those at the club. Who could really have foreseen the changes in Straker, Leonard and Prosser this season? I wouldnt tinker too much with this unless we really do get stuck.

Anyone who watched us for the last couple of seasons

http://www.shrimperzone.com/vb/showthread.php?77101-Potential-player-departures-Are-we-really-that-bothered&p=1522171&viewfull=1#post1522171

You're missing my point. We have just made an un-budgeted £18,000 from the FA Cup. That should be used for out of the ordinary payments, if possible.

Please read this a bit more carefully. I said he should do his utmost. I didn't say he should drop everything in favour. I just think now is the time make more of an effort, and give Phil Brown a bit more to work with.

Whilst I agree it should be un-budgeted, I heard our budget is actually based on us getting to the 2nd round of the FA Cup.

Given our early exits in the other competitions we may even be under budget.


Anyway, this is a re-run of the arguments we had under Tilly when everyone thought the squad was too small, but we rode that good team spirit to consecutive promotions.

Stick with the squad we've got (unless we can off-load dead wood).

 

[Bromley Blue]

I do think people are just seeing everything slightly more rosey because we're on a good run and do see what londonblue is saying.

What happens if Corr gets injured on Saturday and Cauley Woodrow is suspended for another 2 games? Reid isn't even getting on for 10 minutes at the end of games at the moment so would he really be able to play 90 minutes and score the goals we need to get results?

On Tuesday night Barry Corr was winning headers all night and in the first half no-one was getting close enough to him to get the benefit of this and get some shots in on goal. I looked to the bench to what we had available to bring on and change the game for us and it didn't seem up to much to me. We got away with it on Tuesday because Pompey were so frail defensively and we're currently flying so went for the kill.

But what about when we're 4 games without a win and desperately need a goal to stop the rot? I agree that I can't see Ron doing much whilst things are going well but if we're not granted special dispensation at times of need then all our good work in recent weeks could count for nothing.

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

The embargo annoys me as much as the next man, but how about this...

If we were not under an embargo this season we would not have signed Kiernan, because we would have already had cover, an Kiernan has been awesome...

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

The embargo annoys me as much as the next man, but how about this...

If we were not under an embargo this season we would not have signed Kiernan, because we would have already had cover, an Kiernan has been awesome...

That's Kiernan who hit his own crossbar the other night, was turned on two or three occasions....

If Corr is injured we're screwed.

Not because our squad is too small, but because we'd be down to our 4th choice striker. Any time you are down to your 4th choice you are going to be weaker.

We'd just have to suck it up and make do with Reid and Seedy Nigel until Corr/Eastwood/Woodrow were available again.

 

[londonblue]

Anyone who watched us for the last couple of seasons

http://www.shrimperzone.com/vb/showthread.php?77101-Potential-player-departures-Are-we-really-that-bothered&p=1522171&viewfull=1#post1522171



Whilst I agree it should be un-budgeted, I heard our budget is actually based on us getting to the 2nd round of the FA Cup.

Given our early exits in the other competitions we may even be under budget.


Anyway, this is a re-run of the arguments we had under Tilly when everyone thought the squad was too small, but we rode that good team spirit to consecutive promotions.

Stick with the squad we've got (unless we can off-load dead wood).

And luck. I remember we were very lucky with injuries that season. When someone was injured it seemed to coincide with some else just coming back from injury.

 

[danburyshrimper]

Nah , the emargo is no problem ..... We've not seen such a fantastic team spirit in our club for ages... and this is because every man in our squad is in and around the 1st team itself. We havent got anyone going around sulking or with no chance of playing ,which is how team spirit is damaged in a big squad. .... if you were at Fratton Park on Tuesday you will have seen how the boys fought for each other like tigers , and all our players are gunning for promotion. Keep the squad like it is , compact + buzzing , + we will go up !!!

 

[chapperzUK]

That's Kiernan who hit his own crossbar the other night, was turned on two or three occasions....

Had he not intercepted the cross their striker had an easy tap in. He might not have had the perfect game, but if we are going to pick at performances then you could say the same about several players, including Prosser.

 

[Southend Pier]

Out of interest, what do people think the effect on morale and team spirit would be if we went and signed a couple more players on loan to compete for places against the players who have helped us win 5 games in a row?

It would create competition for places. Those in possession of the shirt would be kept on their toes. If there were loanees coming in they wouldn't get straight into the team I'm sure. With current form good it would be unnecessary and unfair. but there would be competition.

 

[SUFCFANS]

Had he not intercepted the cross their striker had an easy tap in. He might not have had the perfect game, but if we are going to pick at performances then you could say the same about several players, including Prosser.

Exactly - it was a very important touch, saw that on the replay..

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

That's Kiernan who hit his own crossbar the other night, was turned on two or three occasions....

If Corr is injured we're screwed.
Not because our squad is too small, but because we'd be down to our 4th choice striker. Any time you are down to your 4th choice you are going to be weaker.

We'd just have to suck it up and make do with Reid and Seedy Nigel until Corr/Eastwood/Woodrow were available again.

I don't disagree with this, much like Giroud at Arsenal really...

 

[bluebrian]

We definitely need a striker. We have no one to replace BBBC if he is injured/carded in the next match. I guarantee PB wanted to bring a striker in today but wasn't able to because of the embargo.

 

[simac21]

why is it taking so long to come out of this embargo!?!!?!?! its getting beyond a joke now!

 

[Southend Pier]

I'm not so sure of that. Up until now it hasn't affected us. It may also not affect us. But my point is that we shouldn't wait until it does. His view may be that we don't need to get out of the embargo because we're doing OK. My view is that that would be wrong. We should act now when everything is going well to try and keep the momentum going.

That should not be the view IF that is how Ron is thinking.. Keeping things as they are because things are ok. As I said in my reply to Yorkshire blue we could do with 1 or 2 xtra bodies to enforce further competition. staying suspension free and injury free for next 6 months with current numbers will be a tough ask.