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Post-Match Thread and Ratings Southend United 4-1 Aldershot Town

Tommy Widdrington. Surely that's a name from Ripping Yarns

Paul Sturrocks’s first Assistant - can’t you remember him early in Bilel’s career with us do a Basil Fawlty impression when Bilel decided in the last couple of minutes,with us leading by one goal, to run with the ball from the edge of our box to the edge of the opponents - from his centre half position.
 
AlderDIRT, AlderGRIT, AlderSHOT are Alder****! Pass it on...

Jokes aside, that felt good. I don't care how it came. That lot have irked me for the last 2 and a half seasons. If yesterday was a stroke of luck in our favour, then it goes a small way towards balancing out the luck they've had in some of their undeserved victories over us in recent times.

Their players and fans giving it the big'un can all **** off too, especially the knuckle daggers in the North Bank who were booing, laughing and chanting "****er" at Ollie Kensdale as he left the pitch with a gash on his cheek and blood pouring down his face.

Now onto the game. Thought we were on top for the first 15 without having much in the way of clear-cut chances. After that and until half time, I think we still had the better of possession and territory, but Aldershot turned up the intensity of their press and we got sloppy and complacent. A couple of silly and needless surrenders of possession from some of our players who you'd least expect it from, and we were being picked off on the counter attack. Could and probably should have been 2 down at half time. Aldershot showed in that first half what a good team they are - Tolaj, Daly and Stokes in particular.

Impossible to know what would have happened without the sending off. Easy to sit here and say it changed the game, but we don't know that for sure. Thought we started the second half stronger before the incident, and the sending off wasn't required for us to get the equaliser - only the resulting free kick. If we had got level vs. 11 men, it was anybody's game.

I keep going back and forth over the red card decision. Ultimately, I think it could go either way, and anybody saying "definitely not a red" or "red all day long" aren't being honest with themselves. Having watched the replay several times, I can definitely see why he did show the red card. The below still that I took shows that Waldron had got behind the defender and had a pretty clear run on goal from there, and was clearly dragged back and impeded. The closest CB at the time was a fair distance away, too far away to be deemed "covering", and wouldn't, imo, have caught up. On the other hand, I could probably have understood a yellow too given Waldron was, at the point of contact, perhaps not running towards goal and that perhaps there were questions over whether the closest CB could have covered. Really difficult one but can definitely see why the red was shown.

1000049810.jpg

The incident at the other end just before with Kensdale and Stokes was different, imo, in a couple of key ways. Lots of crossover with what I've said above and perhaps Stokes would have been clear through, but Ralph was way closer than Aldershot's CB was above and I think could fairly be called "covering". I'm not even sure it was a foul - no trip or pull back that I could see like the one on Waldron. Kensdale has tried to go shoulder-to-shoulder and perhaps ended up going hip-to-hip, but having watched the replay of this one over and over again too, I think Stokes has gone down far too easily and made it obvious that he's looking for it.

Other than that, thought the referee and officials were equally dire for both sides. The foul on Waldron in the last 20 mins or so was a definite penalty, and there was a host of other bewildering decisions against each team.

Very impressed with how we turned the screw after the sending off though. All too often we've struggled to break down 10 men. Aldershot made it a bit easier by not sitting in, but I thought we were pretty relentless from then on.

Interesting change with Wood coming on. It changed our attacking shape slightly, gave us a double-up and bigger threat down the right (and therefore more balance), and pulled Aldershot around a bit more. Difficult to wax lyrical about its effectiveness too much as it was against 10 men and a team that wasn't parking the bus. Wood has seemed to struggle in the 10 position against teams like that in the past. Perhaps the position and role he occupied on Saturday will suit him and us better?

Excellent goal from him, and then an equally excellent through pass for a brilliant Dackers run and finish. Impressive.

So yeah, don't ultimately care how it came. The world has been against us long enough, so it's nice to see some decisions go our way, especially against that lot.

Collin 7
Crowther 7
Kensdale 8
Ralph 7
JD 7
Bridge 7
Miley 6
Morton 6
Husin 7
Cardwell 7
Waldron 8

Wood 7
Dackers 7
Fonguck (too late to rate)
 
I wasn’t suggesting we’d make play offs, I’m fed up of people worrying playing the likes Aldershot, Alty, Oldham etc. pts gained we are on par. Yes we’ve had a few blips, but so have others so why should we fear anyone?
We are (still) very inconsistent.
 
AlderDIRT, AlderGRIT, AlderSHOT are Alder****! Pass it on...

Jokes aside, that felt good. I don't care how it came. That lot have irked me for the last 2 and a half seasons. If yesterday was a stroke of luck in our favour, then it goes a small way towards balancing out the luck they've had in some of their undeserved victories over us in recent times.

Their players and fans giving it the big'un can all **** off too, especially the knuckle daggers in the North Bank who were booing, laughing and chanting "****er" at Ollie Kensdale as he left the pitch with a gash on his cheek and blood pouring down his face.

Now onto the game. Thought we were on top for the first 15 without having much in the way of clear-cut chances. After that and until half time, I think we still had the better of possession and territory, but Aldershot turned up the intensity of their press and we got sloppy and complacent. A couple of silly and needless surrenders of possession from some of our players who you'd least expect it from, and we were being picked off on the counter attack. Could and probably should have been 2 down at half time. Aldershot showed in that first half what a good team they are - Tolaj, Daly and Stokes in particular.

Impossible to know what would have happened without the sending off. Easy to sit here and say it changed the game, but we don't know that for sure. Thought we started the second half stronger before the incident, and the sending off wasn't required for us to get the equaliser - only the resulting free kick. If we had got level vs. 11 men, it was anybody's game.

I keep going back and forth over the red card decision. Ultimately, I think it could go either way, and anybody saying "definitely not a red" or "red all day long" aren't being honest with themselves. Having watched the replay several times, I can definitely see why he did show the red card. The below still that I took shows that Waldron had got behind the defender and had a pretty clear run on goal from there, and was clearly dragged back and impeded. The closest CB at the time was a fair distance away, too far away to be deemed "covering", and wouldn't, imo, have caught up. On the other hand, I could probably have understood a yellow too given Waldron was, at the point of contact, perhaps not running towards goal and that perhaps there were questions over whether the closest CB could have covered. Really difficult one but can definitely see why the red was shown.

View attachment 31251

The incident at the other end just before with Kensdale and Stokes was different, imo, in a couple of key ways. Lots of crossover with what I've said above and perhaps Stokes would have been clear through, but Ralph was way closer than Aldershot's CB was above and I think could fairly be called "covering". I'm not even sure it was a foul - no trip or pull back that I could see like the one on Waldron. Kensdale has tried to go shoulder-to-shoulder and perhaps ended up going hip-to-hip, but having watched the replay of this one over and over again too, I think Stokes has gone down far too easily and made it obvious that he's looking for it.

Other than that, thought the referee and officials were equally dire for both sides. The foul on Waldron in the last 20 mins or so was a definite penalty, and there was a host of other bewildering decisions against each team.

Very impressed with how we turned the screw after the sending off though. All too often we've struggled to break down 10 men. Aldershot made it a bit easier by not sitting in, but I thought we were pretty relentless from then on.

Interesting change with Wood coming on. It changed our attacking shape slightly, gave us a double-up and bigger threat down the right (and therefore more balance), and pulled Aldershot around a bit more. Difficult to wax lyrical about its effectiveness too much as it was against 10 men and a team that wasn't parking the bus. Wood has seemed to struggle in the 10 position against teams like that in the past. Perhaps the position and role he occupied on Saturday will suit him and us better?

Excellent goal from him, and then an equally excellent through pass for a brilliant Dackers run and finish. Impressive.

So yeah, don't ultimately care how it came. The world has been against us long enough, so it's nice to see some decisions go our way, especially against that lot.

Collin 7
Crowther 7
Kensdale 8
Ralph 7
JD 7
Bridge 7
Miley 6
Morton 6
Husin 7
Cardwell 7
Waldron 8

Wood 7
Dackers 7
Fonguck (too late to rate)

That screen shot shows exactly why it was red. The bizarre thing that some of our own fans don't get is Waldron scored from an exact but mirrored position v Maidenhead. So it was 100% scoring opportunity.

On Tuesday his first touch was off his head to put him in front, had touch and then scored with the next. Could have easily done the same with two touches on Saturday.

A strikers best option is to get across and in front of your marker so he can't do anything from there. The defender new instantly he was done and there was no cover. So yes he gambled on week refereeing and lost. End of and we went on to win 4-1.

Move on with confidence and make sure we dish out a similar result to Alty. They deserve it for bottling it a few weeks back whilst trying too blame us. The league accountants need to check their travel expenses whilst we are at it. Even Sol Campbell couldn't run up £4,600 for one night away.
 
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True but 41 from 33 (or even 51) is not. The bigger question needs to be what points are needed for survival? It sure as hell isn’t going to be 50 this season.
There is no figure for how many points we need to survive. We just need to have 4 teams below us. The thing is that a lot of these teams will play each other and they can't all win. We ideally want lots of draws for them all whilst we win. It may be 50 points or thereabouts when it all comes down to it.

It is incredibly tight this season though, and with the exception of Oxford City (28) only 8 points separate Woking (35) in 23rd and Boreham Wood (43) in 12th. Eastleigh are 11th with 45 and Hartlepool 10th with 47. A poor run from any of those teams could see them sucked into a relegation battle and whilst our goal difference is worth a point, that only puts us 4 points away from the drop zone. We also have 2 games in hand over most teams which hopefully we'll be able to capitalise on as we should theoretically be challenging at the other end of the table. Teams with a +15 goal difference shouldn't be near the bottom.
 
True but 41 from 33 (or even 51) is not. The bigger question needs to be what points are needed for survival? It sure as hell isn’t going to be 50 this season.
Just had a quick look.

Excluding the two covid seasons, the highest points required to stay up in the last 10 seasons has been 52 and the lowest 44. With an average of about 49 points required for survival.

It's very tight down there. Most teams down near the relegation zone average around 1.1PPG, perhaps 1.2PPG at best if you factor in a little surge in form. So I'd say we are going to be nearer the top end of that range with perhaps 52/53 points needed for survival this season.

4 wins from 13 games would probably do it for us, with our superior GD being worth another point, 5 wins to be sure. So 1.15PPG needed to be safe. To put that into context, we are averaging 1.24PPG even with the 10 point deduction (1.55PPG without) so it would take an absolute monstrous collapse in season form for us to go through the trapdoor.
 
Might have been dubious to anyone 900 miles away, but every person in the stadium could see it was a red. From the resulting free kick we scored our equaliser. If it was just a yellow instead of red would it have changed the outcome, possibly. But frankly who cares.

To score 4 against a team in the playoffs offs and leading 0-1 away from home we must have done something right in the second half. Its not uncommon for teams to "shut up shop" when winning away from home and start time wasting, especially if they go a man down.

It took Aldershot 8 or 9 minutes to make changes after the sending off, by which time we had scored our second and got our noses in front. And one of those that came on (Thomas) could easily have been sent off. He got a yellow for flailing arms on a jump with Ralph and he continued flapping with his arms a ccouple more times trying to get the ball.
Next time you're in the West I suggest you have a look at that ladder on the HW line.Follow it up to the gantry and you'll see the camera perched on top of the West stand.That's the view I get of SUFC games at Roots Hall.It's a good one-( apart fom when Bridge or Ralph take the ball up the NW corner flag kicking into the old Norht Bank)..(As I've said before) Paul Clark sitting in the BBC Essex commenary box at the back of the East stand also called out the decision as a mistake (which obviously beefitted us).
 
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Next time you're in the West I suggest you have a look at that ladder on the HW line.Follow it up to the gantry and you'll see the camera perched on top of the West stand.That's the view I get of SUFC games at Roots Hall.It's a good one-( apart fom when Bridge or Ralph take the ball up the NW corner flag kicking into the old Norht Bank)..(As I've said before) Paul Clark sitting in the BBC Essex commenary box at the back of the East stand aslo called out the decision as a mistake (which obviously beefitted us).
I think Riggers has given the alternative viewpoint in that he scored when in a similar position against Maidenhead. He absolutely could've scored and Menayese cynically brought him down, as he was clearly going to go for goal. Can you honestly hand on heart say he had NO chance of scoring??

I did think red was harsh at the time from the West Stand but I'll accept others were in a better position to judge. As to us benefitting, we only did so as we scored twice soon after. Had we not, Aldershot could've regrouped and 10 men sometimes win games. You nor Paul Clark have any way of knowing how the game would've panned out if he stays on the pitch.
 
I think Riggers has given the alternative viewpoint in that he scored when in a similar position against Maidenhead. He absolutely could've scored and Menayese cynically brought him down, as he was clearly going to go for goal. Can you honestly hand on heart say he had NO chance of scoring??

I did think red was harsh at the time from the West Stand but I'll accept others were in a better position to judge. As to us benefitting, we only did so as we scored twice soon after. Had we not, Aldershot could've regrouped and 10 men sometimes win games. You nor Paul Clark have any way of knowing how the game would've panned out if he stays on the pitch.
OBviously not but I don't think there's any question tht the Shots were the better team in the first half.
 
I sit absolutely dead level with the incident in the South Upper, pretty close to where it happened. I thought it was a red at the time, I have to say, and I haven't seen too much to change my mind. IMO the camera angle is slightly misleading. Waldron was without doubt going clean through on goal, he had got across his man and was heading inside. Mnoga wouldn't have got there in time.

A lot of their fans moaning they should have had a foul a few moments before. Possibly, but Stokes goes down extremely easily, and the referee wasn't having any of that all game for either side (check out the pull on Miley for the chance that hit the crossbar) so at least he was consistent.
 
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