The EU Referendum - What are the facts, Where are the facts

[Benfleet A1]

The only reason Cameron wants to stay in Europe is to unite the Tories under his leadership.That is the sole reason why the UK will be having a referendum on the EU in June.

With bollocks like this being posted I'm still none the wiser. Do enlighten me.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

With bollocks like this being posted I'm still none the wiser. Do enlighten me.

The Tories are totally divided over Europe.At least half (if not more) of them will vote to leave.

When the Great British public, in its infinite wisdom, votes to remain, the Tory outers will have to re-group under Cameron.

Consider yourself enlightened.QED.

 

[Pubey]

Fullfact for the EU membership fee

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

If anyone wanted proof that the Tories are having a civil war over the EU check this out:-


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35665635

 

[callan]

If anyone wanted proof that the Tories are having a civil war over the EU check this out:-


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35665635

I would like some proof, the article doesn't mention the word 'Civil War' simply a disagreement.

Do all Labour MP's agree on Trident?...if not can we conclude as you have, they are having a civil war?

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Facts - from Whitehall:

The government has issued a statement saying that if we exit it could be 2018 before any replacement trade deals are reached, that there are 53 trade deals to be renegotiated, that UK financial firms would have to meet additional requirements to be allowed to operate in Europe, that Britain would have little say over its exit terms, that it will lead to a decade of uncertainty.


I'm sure that anyone who voted Tory because they offered a referendum is feeling thoroughly cheated. And the rest of us are feeling that if all this is true then why are they putting the finances of the country at risk but putting this up as an option to vote for?


Deplorable behaviour.

 

[rigsby]

Facts - from Whitehall:

The government has issued a statement saying that if we exit it could be 2018 before any replacement trade deals are reached, that there are 53 trade deals to be renegotiated, that UK financial firms would have to meet additional requirements to be allowed to operate in Europe, that Britain would have little say over its exit terms, that it will lead to a decade of uncertainty.


I'm sure that anyone who voted Tory because they offered a referendum is feeling thoroughly cheated. And the rest of us are feeling that if all this is true then why are they putting the finances of the country at risk but putting this up as an option to vote for?


Deplorable behaviour.

Why would they feel cheated, the Tories have kept their word. A rare occurrence in todays politics.

You seem to swallow operation scare in big spoonful's. Playing nicely into the hands of the very people and institutions you have spent your life despising and campaigning about. We are spending billions more in Europe than they do in Britain....Fact

If they decide not to trade with us the British economy would have a huge boost as we would be forced to spend our money in Briton. If Germany decided they won't sell us any more Mercedes or BMW's which country do think would be worse off.

Once again your own political ideology far outweighs what's best for the people you claim to represent. You have decided to sneer at us plebs, upset that we are even allowed to vote because we don't agree with you....How very new Labour of you.

Deplorable behaviour

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Why would they feel cheated, the Tories have kept their word. A rare occurrence in todays politics.

You seem to swallow operation scare in big spoonful's. Playing nicely into the hands of the very people and institutions you have spent your life despising and campaigning about. We are spending billions more in Europe than they do in Britain....Fact

If they decide not to trade with us the British economy would have a huge boost as we would be forced to spend our money in Briton. If Germany decided they won't sell us any more Mercedes or BMW's which country do think would be worse off.

Once again your own political ideology far outweighs what's best for the people you claim to represent. You have decided to sneer at us plebs, upset that we are even allowed to vote because we don't agree with you....How very new Labour of you.

Deplorable behaviour

You really are quite a....character.
Which plebs am I sneering at?
The government were voted in on policies including 'a chance for the public to have their say on the EU' and then make out that the choice is between a 'reformed' EU or something they make out will be a disaster. Is that the way you hoped the choice would be presented.
I say the government is being unfair to the 'out' voters and you say I'm insulting plebs. O........k then.

 

[OldBlueLady]

This is quite interesting for those who haven't seen it (apologies for posting a Guardian link), as most of you probably know I am a Tory voter, have been all my life, as have my parents and grandparents before me. However, on Europe I am definitely against the Government's lead.

The dampening down of Dave's requests here is symptomatic of why I am against the EU, and that's without getting started on a whole host of other things.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/19/camerons-eu-deal-what-he-wanted-and-what-he-got

 

[Napster]

I'm Tory and pro-Europe. :thumbsup:

 

[callan]

I'm Tory and pro-Europe. :thumbsup:

I'm Pro Europe, just anti EU.

 

[Napster]

I'm Pro Europe, just anti EU.

It's a fine line alright.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I agree with you about board memberships. MEP's pay is much higher than our own, so its nice work if you can get it.

Neil Kinnock and his wife were both part of the EU gravy train. They must have been on around £500,000 a year plus those all important expenses. Now his son has also had his nose in the trough. So for a failed opposition leader he wont have to worry about his winter fuel bill in his old age.

Now I'll wager a handsome sum of guinea that he thinks the EU is wonderful.

Of course the Kinnocks wouldn't be the only ones to have financially benefited from Europe. Nigel Farage openly boasted about the £2m he (and his German wife he employed as his "secretary") milked from the EU, on top of his generous salary (particularly generous considering his abysmal voting record in the EU parliament) and the money UKIP claim from the EU.

The fact it costs us over £12bn a year, it holds us back from trading with growing economies in the rest of the world, it's ruined our fishing industry, it's played a part in the demise of the steel industry, the strain on public services and suppression of wages caused by mass migration, I could go on... And that's just the UK. Look at the damage the EU has caused in Greece, Portugal etc. For me the costs far outweigh the benefits.

Some dodgy facts there. Take trade. Being a member of the EU opens up access not just to the EU but also to all those countries (50+) that the EU have trade agreements with.

Sure, Britain could try and and make their own trade agreements with these countries, but back in the real world this takes a long time and the EU gets better trade deals than the likes of Switzerland or Australia because they are a bigger market.


The CBI's research reckons EU membership costs 0.4% of GDP and contributes to 4-5% of GDP. That seems like exceptionally good value to me.

The only reason Cameron wants to stay in Europe is to unite the Tories under his leadership.That is the sole reason why the UK will be having a referendum on the EU in June.

If anyone wanted proof that the Tories are having a civil war over the EU check this out:-
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35665635

Hang on, so is the referendum uniting the Tories or causing a civil war. You seem unsure.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Hang on, so is the referendum uniting the Tories or causing a civil war. You seem unsure.

What I am quite sure about is that the EU referendum debate is currently causing a near civil war in the Tory parliamentary party.How could it be otherwise with the Tories split pretty much 50/50?

Clearly, Cameron hopes that a remain vote will give him a chance to re-unite the Tories under his leadership after the vote in June.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

What I am quite sure about is that the EU referendum debate is currently causing a near civil war in the Tory parliamentary party.How could it be otherwise with the Tories split pretty much 50/50?

Clearly, Cameron hopes that a remain vote will give him a chance to re-unite the Tories under his leadership after the vote in June.

So you think Cameron's tactics are to create a civil war and then hope he triumphs whilst all his opponents are wiped out in that civil war?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So you think Cameron's tactics are to create a civil war and then hope he triumphs whilst all his opponents are wiped out in that civil war?

No, I think he was pressured (by UKIP) into holding a referendum that he never really wanted, in order to keep the Tories together.

Clearly, his potential successors, such as Boy George and the Home Secretary, will be hoping that their potential "opponents" such as Boris etc will be "wiped out," if the Great British public in its infinite wisdom, votes for remain in June.

 

[callan]

Some dodgy facts there. Take trade. Being a member of the EU opens up access not just to the EU but also to all those countries (50+) that the EU have trade agreements with.

Sure, Britain could try and and make their own trade agreements with these countries, but back in the real world this takes a long time and the EU gets better trade deals than the likes of Switzerland or Australia because they are a bigger market.


The CBI's research reckons EU membership costs 0.4% of GDP and contributes to 4-5% of GDP. That seems like exceptionally good value to me.

The CBI's research is one amongst many, and in most cases they are written to suit either a Remain or Leave, pre determined position.

A lot of research has not factored in thing's such as the cost of EU regulation, but has simply relied on membership cost vs UK funding, rebate etc.


The CBI itself receives funding from the EU, so there could be a conflict of interest on any research they may perform.

To see our current deal with the EU as good value, we would probably need to make a comparison with other EU members (and indeed non EU members) to see if, as a claim it actually holds up, and are we just seeing 'Value' from a purely economic point of view.

Is a trade deficit good value?

Is it a positive thing that we have to rely on the EU to make our trade deals, and ultimately are we better off (however long it takes) having deals tailored towards the UK's business + economy needs rather than a collective of 28 countries who all have different, but of course collectively are a bigger market?

Are we saying that the UK in terms of GDP, has a better value deal than say Switzerland who run trade surplus.

Are we exposed via our membership to the Euro, and failing economies elsewhere in the EU?

 

[Medway Blue]

What I am quite sure about is that the EU referendum debate is currently causing a near civil war in the Tory parliamentary party.How could it be otherwise with the Tories split pretty much 50/50?

Clearly, Cameron hopes that a remain vote will give him a chance to re-unite the Tories under his leadership after the vote in June.

Forget the civil war in the Tory party, I'm sick to death of the psychological warfare being conducted on the British public. By Cameron and his cronies with their scaremongering, working in the background to get other EU countries to make threats against the UK if it leaves to frighten us into voting he way Cameron wants; pressuring the BCC to suspend Longworth for not following the Tory line of opinion; getting big business leaders to speak out against a Brexit. All in the name of self-interest.


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[Medway Blue]

The CBI's research is one amongst many, and in most cases they are written to suit either a Remain or Leave, pre determined position.

A lot of research has not factored in thing's such as the cost of EU regulation, but has simply relied on membership cost vs UK funding, rebate etc.


The CBI itself receives funding from the EU, so there could be a conflict of interest on any research they may perform.

To see our current deal with the EU as good value, we would probably need to make a comparison with other EU members (and indeed non EU members) to see if, as a claim it actually holds up, and are we just seeing 'Value' from a purely economic point of view.

Is a trade deficit good value?

Is it a positive thing that we have to rely on the EU to make our trade deals, and ultimately are we better off (however long it takes) having deals tailored towards the UK's business + economy needs rather than a collective of 28 countries who all have different, but of course collectively are a bigger market?

Are we saying that the UK in terms of GDP, has a better value deal than say Switzerland who run trade surplus.

Are we exposed via our membership to the Euro, and failing economies elsewhere in the EU?

Spot on.


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[Tangled up in Blue]

Forget the civil war in the Tory party, I'm sick to death of the psychological warfare being conducted on the British public. By Cameron and his cronies with their scaremongering, working in the background to get other EU countries to make threats against the UK if it leaves to frighten us into voting he way Cameron wants; pressuring the BCC to suspend Longworth for not following the Tory line of opinion; getting big business leaders to speak out against a Brexit. All in the name of self-interest.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No more than I'm equally fed up with "the psychological warfare being conducted on the British public" by the Tory press.

As Bearded Shrimper has pointed out, only The Guardian,The Independent, (going online only from Easter) and The Mirror, support the remain campaign.The rest of the British press operate in the narrow "self-interest" of their proprietors.