This club is XXXXXX

[superblue24]

Bingo. Ron needs this development or he's finished and the Club are tied to him now to the point where I don't see how anyone else could take over. If we did go into Adminsitration and someone else bought the Club then Ron would still own Roots Hall. All it would take would be for him to actually charge the rent that we're supposed to have been paying for the past decade and we'd be homeless.

I think you could agree that not even Ken Bates would ruin his club by doing what you're suggesting RM might?

I was led to believe that RH is sold to Sainsburys.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Maybe so, but as I mentioned to YB, Back in those days we had RH as our only asset.....Now it would appear that we have lost that and the money we got for it is just being pured into a black hole of debt.

As I have said 100 times before, how comes teams much smaller than us with much smaller crowds are above us? It's a simple equation that I can't quite get my head around.....Only poor management seems to keep popping up in my head.

We also had circa £4m worth of debt. The better option would have been to plunge ourselves into administration, absolve the debt and start from scratch back then, but that didn't happen, which has ultimately led us down this path.

Teams smaller than us, with smaller crowds, are above us on merit. It's as simple as that. You think the likes of Leeds, both Sheffield clubs and Lolerpool would have ever envisioned a day that Blackpool would be doing substantially better than them in the football league after the advent of the Premier League? It definitely helps to have a wealthy financier capable of subsidising the massive losses that football clubs tend to rack up, i.e. Colchester, or to own your facilities outright, i.e. Yeovil.

 

[Mr. Benedict]

Maybe so, but as I mentioned to YB, Back in those days we had RH as our only asset.....Now it would appear that we have lost that and the money we got for it is just being pured into a black hole of debt.

As I have said 100 times before, how comes teams much smaller than us with much smaller crowds are above us? It's a simple equation that I can't quite get my head around.....Only poor management seems to keep popping up in my head.

Because success on the pitch is independent of the amount of people you get through your gates every home game....

At this level, good management on the pitch can more thhaqn make up for financial clout off it.... just look at Dagenham for example.

 

[Beefy]

I think you could agree that not even Ken Bates would ruin his club by doing what you're suggesting RM might?

I was led to believe that RH is sold to Sainsburys.

If Ron is forced out following an adminsitration his only play is to get the Club off of the Roots Hall site and get that developed. He'd be mad not to do so.

Maybe so, but as I mentioned to YB, Back in those days we had RH as our only asset.....Now it would appear that we have lost that and the money we got for it is just being pured into a black hole of debt.

As I have said 100 times before, how comes teams much smaller than us with much smaller crowds are above us? It's a simple equation that I can't quite get my head around.....Only poor management seems to keep popping up in my head.

It's all about cashflow. Football clubs generally have smaller incomes than they do have outgoings (hence Colchester's £4m operating loss in their last set of accounts and even Yeovil lost almost a million last year) but that isn't a problem necessarily so long as your Chairman or your Directors or your bank or other companies can make up the difference by covering things like wages and tax bills throughout the year as and when they fall due. We had a number of stupidly large contracts agreed by this Club back when Ron's other companies were able to afford to meet our cashflow requirements but when the economy collapsed that was no longer an option, and the delay in the stadium meant that we were not a good proposition for other potential investors.

We're a loss-making business owned by a highly-leveraged property developer and the only thing that gave us slight hope for any future was that we had the potential for a stadium move allowing someone to make a fortune from a supermarket, a casino, a hotel, flats and a ****-load of retail premises. The impacts of a global economic collapse which wiped out the banking system like never before as well as having major implications for the property and retail sectors simply cannot be underestimated. It's a miracle that we're still here today, IMO.

 

[GBJ]

Bingo. Ron needs this development or he's finished and the Club are tied to him now to the point where I don't see how anyone else could take over. If we did go into Adminsitration and someone else bought the Club then Ron would still own Roots Hall. All it would take would be for him to actually charge the rent that we're supposed to have been paying for the past decade and we'd be homeless.

TBH though, if you call owning £20m-worth of land, finished, then I certainly wouldn't mind beig finished.

 

[Beefy]

If it is worth £20m (and I don't think it is) then that won't be profit. That will include the money to buy the other properties (Pizzaman, etc) and he's already received a huge chunk of that which has been used to keep SUFC afloat. I doubt what is left over touches the sides of what he owes. Ron Martin needs Fossetts Farm to happen.

 

[EastStandBlue]

TBH though, if you call owning £20m-worth of land, finished, then I certainly wouldn't mind beig finished.

Depends on how heavily leveraged the asset is, though...

A classic example of this is Tom Hicks claiming that Liverpool FC was worth around £515m, because that was how much Forbes valued the asset at. Unfortunately for him, Forbes didn't include the debt serviced by the club, about £205m, which would have left Liverpool's true value at around £310m.

 

[GBJ]

If it is worth £20m (and I don't think it is) then that won't be profit. That will include the money to buy the other properties (Pizzaman, etc) and he's already received a huge chunk of that which has been used to keep SUFC afloat. I doubt what is left over touches the sides of what he owes. Ron Martin needs Fossetts Farm to happen.

Depends on how heavily leveraged the asset is, though...

A classic example of this is Tom Hicks claiming that Liverpool FC was worth around £515m, because that was how much Forbes valued the asset at. Unfortunately for him, Forbes didn't include the debt serviced by the club, about £205m, which would have left Liverpool's true value at around £310m.

As much as i despise the guy, I can't fault him for being clever (slippery). If you honestly think, this will ruin him financially, then you're simply deluded, or not giving the guy enough credit. By hook or by crook, Ron will be alright.

 

[EastStandBlue]

As much as i despise the guy, I can't fault him for being clever (slippery). If you honestly think, this will ruin him financially, then you're simply deluded, or not giving the guy enough credit. By hook or by crook, Ron will be alright.

I don't for one second doubt that he'll personally be "alright", He probably does have a little something ringfenced in the Virgin Islands, but the end of FF would more than likely spell the end for the bulk of his business arrangements, such is the apparent gearing of his companies.

 

[Beefy]

As much as i despise the guy, I can't fault him for being clever (slippery). If you honestly think, this will ruin him financially, then you're simply deluded, or not giving the guy enough credit. By hook or by crook, Ron will be alright.

Martin Dawn's accounts are in a very poor state and the fact that they simply couldn't afford to subsidise us last season speaks volumes for how that business is doing. I'm not sure what you're basing your opinion on that says he's ok. Maybe he is, but in view of the collapse of the economy and the obvious cashflow problems at the football club if he is ok then it defies all logic.

 

[GBJ]

I don't for one second doubt that he'll personally be "alright", He probably does have a little something ringfenced in the Virgin Islands, but the end of FF would more than likely spell the end for the bulk of his business arrangements, such is the apparent gearing of his companies.

Put it this way, he'll be better off than an average member of the public. You won't see him stacking shelves in a supermarket if it did go wrong

Martin Dawn's accounts are in a very poor state and the fact that they simply couldn't afford to subsidise us last season speaks volumes for how that business is doing. I'm not sure what you're basing your opinion on that says he's ok. Maybe he is, but in view of the collapse of the economy and the obvious cashflow problems at the football club if he is ok then it defies all logic.

His fair-sized gaff on The Benfleet Road, and £90k top-of-the-range Bentlely, prove he's scraping by somehow

 

[Beefy]

His fair-sized gaff on The Benfleet Road, and £90k top-of-the-range Bentlely, prove he's scraping by somehow

They prove that he's got assets. They don't prove that he's got money. The Duchess of York is on the verge of bankruptcy despite living in a Palace. Michael Jackson had more than a nice Bentley but needed to book the O2 gigs to avoid going bust.

 

[GBJ]

They prove that he's got assets. They don't prove that he's got money. The Duchess of York is on the verge of bankruptcy despite living in a Palace. Michael Jackson had more than a nice Bentley but needed to book the O2 gigs to avoid going bust.

The difference is, when the bill rolls in at the end of the month, Martin can't tell the bank he's got it tied up in assetts.

Think about your examples. DOY isn't going to stacking shelves anytime soon is she? Prior to Jacko's death, he wouldn't of been a trolley walley at Morrisons, would he?

The point I am making about Martin, he won't be mega rich, but he'll be better off than the average person in the street

 

[Mad Cyril]

The point I am making about Martin, he won't be mega rich, but he'll be better off than the average person in the street

He probably made few quid out of the old bobsleigh game as well.

 

[canveyshrimper]

He probably made few quid out of the old bobsleigh game as well.

Until the business went downhill.

 

[fbm]

FBM, maybe you could answer me two tiny questions, if you don't mind;

1) You say without RM at the helm, we'll be finished. Well, I'm just wondering, after he (allegedly) put us in the current predicament, how could you trust/believe he will get us out and stear us to safety, especially after these latest rumours?

2) After he (allegedly) put us in this predicament, wouldn't you want to do as much as humanly possible to rid him of the club?

1) What rumours? A bounced cheque? Or have I missed something else? And whether I trust or believe RM will steer us to safety is irrelevant. I just hope he will, but as I have stated in my earlier post, it may not happen. Nothing has any guarantees.

2) Not if it meant the club being in an even worse state afterwards. Despite asking loads of times, no-one has ever demonstrated how we would be better off without him there. My fear is that even if he went (which he won't) he could hold the club to ransom by charging rent. No-one has ever told me that can't or won't happen.

I think the overall thing here is that getting Ron Martin out isn't the solution. The question of who takes over afterwards is. For instance, let's say one of us won the £100m on the lottery that was mentioned on another thread. Let's say it was me. How happy would everyone be for me to be the new owner? Because I would try to run the club as a business, which would almost certainly mean massive cuts in admin expenses, no transfers in, selling the best players like Grant, and if it meant we had to drop to Conference level or bring in part time players to make a profit then so be it. Maybe the only profitable solution would be to merge with Chelmsford, or maybe even Colchester or Orient. Maybe the solution would be to remarket the club completely and sell out sponsorship rights, so we would actually be "Sainsbury United".

As a businessman I would only be in it for the money. There would be no value in the stadium because I wouldn't own it. I'd have to do whatever to get the money in and you can't rely on lucky cup runs.

And I'm a big fan.

Someone please tell me why any non-fan owner would be any different.

Does that answer your questions?

 

[Beefy]

2) Not if it meant the club being in an even worse state afterwards. Despite asking loads of times, no-one has ever demonstrated how we would be better off without him there. My fear is that even if he went (which he won't) he could hold the club to ransom by charging rent. No-one has ever told me that can't or won't happen.

Of course he could/would. And no convenant would protect us once we've been legally evicted for non-payment of rent (not that I imagine that it would protect us much anyway).

 

[Badger74]

So in other words, you can't back up your claim so you resort to the usual sport of having a go at my "going on and on", when actually it is YOU that has been "going on and on" and provoking this Gang of 4. I am fully aware that I irritate some Zoners, but most of them are able to understand the value of an opinionated woman on a predominantly male orientated forum - if only as a figure of fun - and certainly value the contributions I make to the Zone on a wider scale.

As I keep saying to others who are so fond of having a pop, please come and introduce yourself at a match instead of hiding behind a keyboard.

Kay, I believe u sit in the west which I do as well so next game i attend i promise to introduce myself as i never have any issues with introducing myself, maybe you would like to introduce me to davewebbsbrain?

 

[Badger74]

Kay, don't even bother. After a very quick look, it seems that you have 66 people that have wanted to befriend you, CS has 32 and I have 19. Maybe we are opinionated, but there are some on here that are interested in us. Point of note is that nobody has requested to befriend Badger74. I think that speaks volumes.

So as kay has stated we should not sit behind keyboards we should introduce ourselfs at the next home game, what do you think?

 

[davewebbsbrain]

So as kay has stated we should not sit behind keyboards we should introduce ourselfs at the next home game, what do you think?

No worries mate, South Upper. I'm not going to let a difference of opinion stop me from shaking a fellow shrimpers hand.