We are at a cross roads ....

[ElstreeBlue]

Or when Mark Rubin suggested he may move the club away from the town if it wasn't supported.

All people make mistakes and I agree that was a silly thing for him to have said. But please bear in mind the context in which the interview was given (it was a different relationship with the Echo then), the age/naivety of the person giving the interview and the personal family situation of the person giving that statement. That one, stupid statement in those circumstances led to a tirade of noisy vitriolic anti-semitic bile by our fans that led to a chain of events in which people did get what they wished for. Mark and Tony Rubin "sold up" but were not properly paid for the shares they had inherited from their father, we got Ant*n J*hnson and it took Vic Jobson and all his subsequent flaws to rescue the club.

As you often say, CS, be careful what you wish for. And I wouldn't profess Mark Rubin to be perfect. No one is. But all people make some mistakes. Do you not think that one bad PR statement by someone made in their relative youth some 30 years ago who is a lifelong SUFC fan through and through compares to the way OUR club has been "managed" now? Do I even need to list again the things that have happened in the last 18 months to show how ridiculous the comparison is? Your comment in response to Napster's that "the club could have been run a lot lot worse" frankly beggars belief if you think that one silly throw-away comment 30 years ago is a lot lot worse than the situation we now find ourselves in and the way OUR club nearly ended up wound-up in the High Court a few months ago (just to name one incident).

I've said it before and I'll say it again. For the avoidance of doubt, I personally don't care whether it's Mark Rubin or someone else who can turn OUR club around, but the current situation can't go on. The reality is that unless someone is a fan, the new stadium is at best a massive gamble for anyone who might want to "invest". As much as I'd be really happy for the consortium to be the saviours, I'd equally be delighted to see other suitors who feel that they'd like to come in and get us out of this mess. However, I really don't expect a long queue! If anyone thinks the new stadium is a guaranteed one way ticket for people to make a fortune, they'd be sadly mistaken. It was always a risky project even when times were good, but with the current state of bank lending and returns on commercial property, there are more attractive ways to invest with much lower risks. As well as that, it's clear that Ron Martin would not willingly sell up.

Given the mess we're in, I just can't understand the opposition (more than mere questioning) from some to the only viable alternative that I can see.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Given the mess we're in, I just can't understand the opposition (more than mere questioning) from some to the only viable alternative that I can see.

Without wishing to bring up past debates EB, you must be able to understand people's reluctance to recognise Rubin and the Consortium as a viable alternative, given their relative silence as of late and the almost certain problems that would occur should the consortium gain the club, but not the land for FF? I don't believe the consortium stance regarding the development has been clarified since RM rebuffed their last approach?

 

[ElstreeBlue]

Without wishing to bring up past debates EB, you must be able to understand people's reluctance to recognise Rubin and the Consortium as a viable alternative, given their relative silence as of late and the almost certain problems that would occur should the consortium gain the club, but not the land for FF? I don't believe the consortium stance regarding the development has been clarified since RM rebuffed their last approach?

I accept that as a reasonable position for you to take. Some people can only work on the information that is in the public domain.

However, I don't understand what sometimes (not you in this instance!) seems to me to be more like hostility rather than raising valid questions about them as an alternative, when things are the way they are.

As to saying nothing recently, the consortium have tried to get involved, but Ron Martin wants to keep hold of control over the club. He is clearly not interested in selling to them even at what would seem to be a very good price. There's little more to be said by them. OUR club is stuck with Ron Martin as its major shareholder and chairman unless something changes.

 

[Beefy]

First time I've read this thread. It doesn't make good reading.

I accept that as a reasonable position for you to take. Some people can only work on the information that is in the public domain.

However, I don't understand what sometimes (not you in this instance!) seems to me to be more like hostility rather than raising valid questions about them as an alternative, when things are the way they are.

As to saying nothing recently, the consortium have tried to get involved, but Ron Martin wants to keep hold of control over the club. He is clearly not interested in selling to them even at what would seem to be a very good price. There's little more to be said by them. OUR club is stuck with Ron Martin as its major shareholder and chairman unless something changes.

I can't say I've seen any hostility towards the Consortium. Cynicism, maybe. Not hostility though. Why would people be hostile towards them?

 

[canveyshrimper]

All people make mistakes and I agree that was a silly thing for him to have said. But please bear in mind the context in which the interview was given (it was a different relationship with the Echo then), the age/naivety of the person giving the interview and the personal family situation of the person giving that statement. That one, stupid statement in those circumstances led to a tirade of noisy vitriolic anti-semitic bile by our fans that led to a chain of events in which people did get what they wished for. Mark and Tony Rubin "sold up" but were not properly paid for the shares they had inherited from their father, we got Ant*n J*hnson and it took Vic Jobson and all his subsequent flaws to rescue the club.

As you often say, CS, be careful what you wish for. And I wouldn't profess Mark Rubin to be perfect. No one is. But all people make some mistakes. Do you not think that one bad PR statement by someone made in their relative youth some 30 years ago who is a lifelong SUFC fan through and through compares to the way OUR club has been "managed" now? Do I even need to list again the things that have happened in the last 18 months to show how ridiculous the comparison is? Your comment in response to Napster's that "the club could have been run a lot lot worse" frankly beggars belief if you think that one silly throw-away comment 30 years ago is a lot lot worse than the situation we now find ourselves in and the way OUR club nearly ended up wound-up in the High Court a few months ago (just to name one incident).

I've said it before and I'll say it again. For the avoidance of doubt, I personally don't care whether it's Mark Rubin or someone else who can turn OUR club around, but the current situation can't go on. The reality is that unless someone is a fan, the new stadium is at best a massive gamble for anyone who might want to "invest". As much as I'd be really happy for the consortium to be the saviours, I'd equally be delighted to see other suitors who feel that they'd like to come in and get us out of this mess. However, I really don't expect a long queue! If anyone thinks the new stadium is a guaranteed one way ticket for people to make a fortune, they'd be sadly mistaken. It was always a risky project even when times were good, but with the current state of bank lending and returns on commercial property, there are more attractive ways to invest with much lower risks. As well as that, it's clear that Ron Martin would not willingly sell up.

Given the mess we're in, I just can't understand the opposition (more than mere questioning) from some to the only viable alternative that I can see.

Well argued as ever Elstree, and yes perhaps it was unkind of me to vilify Mark Rubin for an interview he did 30 years ago, however and whatever the circumstances he did it, naive or otherwise.

We've discussed privately our views on the consortium, and while we may not agree we like every fan here want what is best for the club, currently the best may only be survival - just. It appears that it's all quiet on the consortium front, therefore uncomfortable as it is we are stuck with Ron Martin.

 

[Jam_Man]

I accept that as a reasonable position for you to take. Some people can only work on the information that is in the public domain.

However, I don't understand what sometimes (not you in this instance!) seems to me to be more like hostility rather than raising valid questions about them as an alternative, when things are the way they are.

As to saying nothing recently, the consortium have tried to get involved, but Ron Martin wants to keep hold of control over the club. He is clearly not interested in selling to them even at what would seem to be a very good price. There's little more to be said by them. OUR club is stuck with Ron Martin as its major shareholder and chairman unless something changes.

What price was it as Ive never seen a figure that I would deem as realistic, let alone a good price.

Bearing in mind the amount SUFC has cost him and his companies over the years it would need to be millions, not thousands.