Absolutely Furious!

[palexander]

We've played plenty of times before without a full subs bench - can't really see what the fuss is about.

Case closed!

 

[Reg Martin]

I have, somehow, managed to remain relatively calm and reserved over the last few weeks, but tonight's events have left me spitting teeth with rage.
.

Coincidentally this is exactly how I feel about many of your posts and those of your fellow 'realists'.
Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Southend fan when I come on here and read the endless spineless whingeing.
Yes we're going through dire run at the moment and doubtless Tilly has made some poor decisions regarding some of the players he has allowed to leave and/or signed but no-one could have foreseen the cruel run we are having with injuries - which is certainly part of the problem right now.
But I truly don't what is worse - the prospect of relegation or the exposure of so many Southend fans as gutless moaners constantly
demanding their right to a successful football team. The only gift many of them seem to possess is that priceless gift of hindsight.

 

[A Century United]

The only gift many of them seem to possess is that priceless gift of hindsight.

Hindsight is what R_C is not using though, Teeside. Consider these quotes from him from when Richie first came:

Originally Posted by Richard_Cadette
Oh I hope this isnt true. If he was barely good enough for a Carlisle team who spend three season attempting to stay in the football league before finally succumbing to the Conference, how on earth is he now good enough for us in the Championship?

Matt Harrold Mark II

And:

Originally Posted by Richard_Cadette
I said when we were linked with him, somtime before we actually bought him, it would be a huge mistake ....

The bottom line is he isnt (any good). Yes, he started off OK, but from what I have seen, he is a complete waste of space. His effort is almost zero, he shows no enthusiasm for anything and the two misses against Luton were remarkable!

If he was trying his hardest, but just wasnt good enough, then fair play to the bloke, you cant criticise him for that. The only person at fault would be the management for spending all that money on someone who blaantly doesnt have the talent.

The problem is, not only does he not seem to have the quality, but he doesnt have any desire in him. He just strolls around like he doesnt have a care in the world, and I cannot stand that attitude from players.

Yet now he has to be on the bench, presumably so his positive attitude can inspire the younger players, or he can turn the match single-handed with his drive and selfless determination to propel SUFC away from danger.

:dim:

 

[JD]

Yes, it was in confidence. But Mr Martin's subsequent actions did not put me in the mood to keep that confidence.

Yet Ron still has the decency to communicate with the fans - despite breaks in confidence........

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Yet Ron still has the decency to communicate with the fans - despite breaks in confidence........

I have good reason and it is nothing to do with the current position of the team on or off the field.

 

[Sean 2]

"Firstly, I'd prefer it if you left personal insults out of a debate - I refer you to the comments you put on my rep page."

Richard Cadette,if you think "wise up" goes down as a personal insult then you've led a very sheltered life!And if it's on the rep page it's not in the debate!
Listen,i know you're passionate about this club,we all are,but coming on the board after that loss in that rage has just lit the whole place up with fury!!

Trouble is come Saturday these kids are gonna need every bit of support we can muster to get us closer to safety,instead the mood most people are in i can see a Tilly backlash from the stands.It was bad enough when Chelsea equalised with the idiots around me slating him ffs.
We're in trouble,we need a win but we are not in the relegation area yet so would everyone calm down a bit,including you RC.

 

[Richard_Cadette]

Coincidentally this is exactly how I feel about many of your posts and those of your fellow 'realists'.
Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a Southend fan when I come on here and read the endless spineless whingeing.
Yes we're going through dire run at the moment and doubtless Tilly has made some poor decisions regarding some of the players he has allowed to leave and/or signed but no-one could have foreseen the cruel run we are having with injuries - which is certainly part of the problem right now.
But I truly don't what is worse - the prospect of relegation or the exposure of so many Southend fans as gutless moaners constantly
demanding their right to a successful football team. The only gift many of them seem to possess is that priceless gift of hindsight.

If my posts offend you that much, then simply just self censor - and don't read them. Because I have a different stand point to you, I somehow have managed to be spineless. I'm struggling to see how we get from my rant last evening to being spineless? Because I was incensed about something to do with my football club, the one I've been watching since 1981, I'm spineless? Perhaps you need to look up the definition of the word - I may be many things, but spineless is certainly not one of them.

I'm interested to know why you don't demand success from your club by the way? I am realistic enough to know that we at Southend will never enjpy the riches, or the success that comes with that, and have sat through many a diabolical period of football, but none the less, I want my club to be as prosperous as it possible can be - The situation we are in at the moment is not one we should be facing from where we were last season, as simple as that.

By definition, I can only assume that you must be happy about life right now, as you're neither a realist or a moaner - Your words I should add.

Some people seem to think that by not being negative, or Discussing as you put it, you somehow take the moral high ground over others who dare to question the rights and wrongs of something - is that how you see yourself, because that is certainly how you are trying to portray yourself?

Personally, I am not disrespectful enough to criticise how you post, or the subject matter of it, but if you feel the need to label me, and at the same time, do down my point of view, then so be it.

 

[Richard_Cadette]

Hindsight is what R_C is not using though, Teeside. Consider these quotes from him from when Richie first came:



And:



Yet now he has to be on the bench, presumably so his positive attitude can inspire the younger players, or he can turn the match single-handed with his drive and selfless determination to propel SUFC away from danger.

:dim:

Congratulations ACU, yet again you have spectacularly managed to miss the point of my post.

How many times did I need to say to you, or anyone else for that matter, that I do not consider Foran to be some kind of messiah, nor have I changed my view on his performances, or ability to be effective for us at Championship level.

We are no longer in the Championship, so as I said, no one can say for sure how good, or not, he would be at this level, as he is unproven for us in this league. What I can be sure of, however, is during the midst of a horrendous injury crisis, then he is better than nobody - is that really difficult to accept?

It transpires now, apparently, that he has an injury which would have made him ineligable for the game last night - according to the Southend Echo. IF that is true, then I can have no complaints, BUT, I would speculate that his injury would have had little bearing on him travelling last night.

Whilst we don't always share the same points of view, you do seem to try and take some kind of moral high ground when people say things you don't consider to be the same opinion as yourself.

Disagree with me, fine, this is a forum for debate (something which you don't seem to enjoy as you're too quick to become aggressive), but the very tone and of your post is out of order.

Oh and nice touch with the 'Dim' emoticon.

 

[Richard_Cadette]

"Firstly, I'd prefer it if you left personal insults out of a debate - I refer you to the comments you put on my rep page."

Richard Cadette,if you think "wise up" goes down as a personal insult then you've led a very sheltered life!And if it's on the rep page it's not in the debate!
Listen,i know you're passionate about this club,we all are,but coming on the board after that loss in that rage has just lit the whole place up with fury!!

Trouble is come Saturday these kids are gonna need every bit of support we can muster to get us closer to safety,instead the mood most people are in i can see a Tilly backlash from the stands.It was bad enough when Chelsea equalised with the idiots around me slating him ffs.
We're in trouble,we need a win but we are not in the relegation area yet so would everyone calm down a bit,including you RC.

I was referring to the '15 year old' comment, which was totally unecessary, and not really in the spirit of this board.

I hardly think my rant, which I should point out, was done in the exact place it should have been done - a forum for debate about all things Southend related, has had the place in fury. I'd love to think of myself as that important, but sadly, I don't think my views carry much weight or influence with many.

I think your point re Saturday kind of sums up what I'm saying - would you prefer me to express my views at Roots Hall during the match than on a fan based forum, for which it's use was intended?

You don't share my view, then fine, no problem - I don't expect everyone to, as it would be extremely boring. Has it sparked a debate? Yes, so it served it's purpose I guess.

The bottom line is, we're in a relegation scrap now, and with only a few days left until the end of the window, we still have had no new faces brought in, apart from yet another loan signing. By the clubs own admission, that is one of the major contributing factors as to why we're in this mess right now, and yet still nothing has happened.

The players do indeed deserve our support, something which I have NEVER disagreed with, and something I have been at pains to point out to others over the last few weeks, but all the support in the world will not help us stay in this league if the quality is just not there.

 

[Benfleet Blue]

I was referring to the '15 year old' comment, which was totally unecessary, and not really in the spirit of this board.

I hardly think my rant, which I should point out, was done in the exact place it should have been done - a forum for debate about all things Southend related, has had the place in fury. I'd love to think of myself as that important, but sadly, I don't think my views carry much weight or influence with many.

I think your point re Saturday kind of sums up what I'm saying - would you prefer me to express my views at Roots Hall during the match than on a fan based forum, for which it's use was intended?

You don't share my view, then fine, no problem - I don't expect everyone to, as it would be extremely boring. Has it sparked a debate? Yes, so it served it's purpose I guess.

The bottom line is, we're in a relegation scrap now, and with only a few days left until the end of the window, we still have had no new faces brought in, apart from yet another loan signing. By the clubs own admission, that is one of the major contributing factors as to why we're in this mess right now, and yet still nothing has happened.

The players do indeed deserve our support, something which I have NEVER disagreed with, and something I have been at pains to point out to others over the last few weeks, but all the support in the world will not help us stay in this league if the quality is just not there.

RC I wholeheartedly concur with your posts.

This forum is supposed to be opinion based and more and more lately it appears to be controlled by the club and a mouthpiece for RM and ST.

How dare anyone have an opinion to the contrary!!

I too feel we are fast becoming 'Buckets and Spades United' a tin pot outfit and this was brought to the fore by our inability to name a full subs bench on Tuesday.

I cannot believe the quality of our squad now to that when Tilly began his reign. There really is no comparison. we have not replaced players who have left, like for like, either in ability or quality.

I agree that Foran should have been on the bench on Tuesday, and if I am to believe what I have been told, I understood that Foran wasn't even allowed to train with the squad, so how any injury occurred at training is quite baffling.

We are, and no one can deny it, in freefall, living in a world of promises regarding a 'War Chest', playing in a borrowed stadium, training at a borrowed training facility, possibly to be in the hands of Sainsbury's or whoever as to how long we may or may not be able to stay at that facility, and controlled by a Chairman who has now, like it or not, sold off all our best assets, the same players that caused the rose tinted brigade to not allow a bad word against Tilly, and I believe has pulled purse strings so tight that even half decent players won't consider us.

Having a CCJ registered against the Club in December, which is on public record, also must be a blot, and cant possibly give off the right vibes to any player looking to sign or club looking to do business with the club.

Opinion I know, bad rep I expect, but it certainly appears the club is slowly but surely being run into the ground.

 

[A Century United]

Congratulations ACU, yet again you have spectacularly managed to miss the point of my post.

How many times did I need to say to you, or anyone else for that matter, that I do not consider Foran to be some kind of messiah, nor have I changed my view on his performances, or ability to be effective for us at Championship level.

We are no longer in the Championship, so as I said, no one can say for sure how good, or not, he would be at this level, as he is unproven for us in this league. What I can be sure of, however, is during the midst of a horrendous injury crisis, then he is better than nobody - is that really difficult to accept?

It transpires now, apparently, that he has an injury which would have made him ineligable for the game last night - according to the Southend Echo. IF that is true, then I can have no complaints, BUT, I would speculate that his injury would have had little bearing on him travelling last night.

Whilst we don't always share the same points of view, you do seem to try and take some kind of moral high ground when people say things you don't consider to be the same opinion as yourself.

Disagree with me, fine, this is a forum for debate (something which you don't seem to enjoy as you're too quick to become aggressive), but the very tone and of your post is out of order.

Oh and nice touch with the 'Dim' emoticon.

Give over, R_C, if anyone tries to take the moral high ground (at length) it is you. And I'm sorry if I come across as agressive, but read your first post again and tell me that it isn't highly aggressive in tone.

And in answer to your question:

What I can be sure of, however, is during the midst of a horrendous injury crisis, then he is better than nobody - is that really difficult to accept?

Firstly, it comes across as arrogant "What I can be sure of", ie no matter what anyone says my opinion is paramount, and Secondly, No in my opinion we would clearly be better off without him anywhere near the first team, pitch or bench and Tilson clearly shares my opinion.

And in my opinion, it really wasn't a big enough issue for you to be "spitting teeth" over either.

And the "Dim" emoticon was supposed to be Foran, but that's the trouble with message boards, easy to mistake tone/intent.

 

[A Century United]

RC I wholeheartedly concur with your posts.

This forum is supposed to be opinion based and more and more lately it appears to be controlled by the club and a mouthpiece for RM and ST.

How dare anyone have an opinion to the contrary!!

Where exactly has anyone tried to stop you or anyone who shares your opinions from posting them? People are entitled to agree or disagree, and post as such on here, and to do so in as strong terms as the original post.

Just because someone disagrees with you that doesn't amount to censorship, it's debate. If a lot of people disagree with you in strong terms it still isn't censorship, it's still debate. Feel free to post strong opinions, be prepared to have to read strong contrary ones.

 

[Richard_Cadette]

Give over, R_C, if anyone tries to take the moral high ground (at length) it is you. And I'm sorry if I come across as agressive, but read your first post again and tell me that it isn't highly aggressive in tone.

And in answer to your question:



Firstly, it comes across as arrogant "What I can be sure of", ie no matter what anyone says my opinion is paramount, and Secondly, No in my opinion we would clearly be better off without him anywhere near the first team, pitch or bench and Tilson clearly shares my opinion.

And in my opinion, it really wasn't a big enough issue for you to be "spitting teeth" over either.

And the "Dim" emoticon was supposed to be Foran, but that's the trouble with message boards, easy to mistake tone/intent.

We are now only going to descend into off-topic debate, which seems pointless. Suffice to say, I stand by what I said, and I have absolutely no problem with you disagreeing with that - we have argued it to death now I think.

Finally, my aggressive tone as you put it was through sheer annoyance with the situation, my post was not in response to anybody on here, nor was it aimed at anyone on here. I felt it was a big enough issue to get worked up about, clearly, and others did too - you don't, and that's your right, although stating I am wrong on my rep is not opinion.

 

[McNasty]

This forum is supposed to be opinion based and more and more lately it appears to be controlled by the club and a mouthpiece for RM and ST.

How dare anyone have an opinion to the contrary!!

I can assure you this web-site is completely independent and the views of any poster are not the views of the Zone, we exist for members to publish their views and opinions. The club have no input in anything the Zone publishes, we do , however, have to monitor posts and remove any that may render posters liable to legal action for comments made. At no time is the Zone a mouth-piece for the club , despite your opinion that it is.

People who have a different view spark debate, it is the nature of the debate we sometimes have trouble with, when personal insults and abuse creep in.

 

[mickcod]

we have gotta stay together. we was at leads and the 2nd half was a lot more promising. at the end of the day with injuries n r previous res we r struggling but if we all stay together then we have got more chance than the rest. we have all round spirit, team spirit, mgmt, n skill to stay out of any releg sheet. a couple of wins will make all this seem baseless. 1 team in essex.

 

[Reg Martin]

If my posts offend you that much, then simply just self censor - and don't read them. Because I have a different stand point to you, I somehow have managed to be spineless. I'm struggling to see how we get from my rant last evening to being spineless? Because I was incensed about something to do with my football club, the one I've been watching since 1981, I'm spineless? Perhaps you need to look up the definition of the word - I may be many things, but spineless is certainly not one of them.

I'm interested to know why you don't demand success from your club by the way? I am realistic enough to know that we at Southend will never enjpy the riches, or the success that comes with that, and have sat through many a diabolical period of football, but none the less, I want my club to be as prosperous as it possible can be - The situation we are in at the moment is not one we should be facing from where we were last season, as simple as that.

By definition, I can only assume that you must be happy about life right now, as you're neither a realist or a moaner - Your words I should add.

Some people seem to think that by not being negative, or Discussing as you put it, you somehow take the moral high ground over others who dare to question the rights and wrongs of something - is that how you see yourself, because that is certainly how you are trying to portray yourself?

Personally, I am not disrespectful enough to criticise how you post, or the subject matter of it, but if you feel the need to label me, and at the same time, do down my point of view, then so be it.

OK a lot of points in your post I would like to respond to.
First of all I accept that the language I used in my post was not helpful and I apologise for it.
I would like to clear up a few things if I can.
I didn't say you offended me and I hope I don't claim any right to the moral high ground.
What I did say was I felt the same anger you were feeling. Whereas you seemed to be feeling it towards the club I was feeling it towards the sentiments you and many others were expressing.
The spineless comment I made was out-of-order. I do often find you to have an overly negative view of things - you are entitled to that, I am entitled to disagree.
I do get very frustrated at those posters (and there are plenty) who pop up on here whenever the club is going through a bad spell and then disappear for weeks on end when things are going well. The next time we hit a rough patch they then pop up again with such a gleeful 'told-you-so' attitude they come across (to me at least) as if they are actually happier with the club failing because it proves them right then they are with club succeeding because that proves them wrong.
Interestingly you are correct in stating I am quite happy with life though obviouly not with Southend's recent form.
I have to disagree with your comment that "The situation we are in at the moment is not one we should be facing from where we were last season, as simple as that."
This to me sounds like exactly the sort of stuff I was saying about people sounding like they thought they had a right to follow a successful team.
Maybe its a problem of how the written word comes across and maybe face-to-face all the non-verbal language would give a more rounded message.
I certainly agree with your comment that "I want my club to be as prosperous as it possible can be".
My own view of how that can be achieved is
- either by someone throwing pots of money at the club and I see no sign of anyone going to do that right now
- or by the long haul and it seems to me that some of the building blocks for that are being put in place, eg, stability off-the-pitch, youth development and the new stadium plans.
To me it seems inevitable that there are going to be rough patches along the road to achieving that goal. It often seems to me that every time we hit one of the patches some people demand imemdiate drastic action , any action, as long as its something and regardless of whether it would help in the long run.
I'm sure mistakes have been made by Ron Martin and Steve Tilson. But at the moment as I said above I don't see where the alternative to Ron Martin is. I also happen to think that Steve Tilson has done well enough during his time as manager to be allowed time to turn things around.

 

[Jay_Shrimper]

RC I wholeheartedly concur with your posts.

This forum is supposed to be opinion based and more and more lately it appears to be controlled by the club and a mouthpiece for RM and ST.

How dare anyone have an opinion to the contrary!!

Missed this post first time round, but I agree completely.

 

[Kris]

I do get very frustrated at those posters (and there are plenty) who pop up on here whenever the club is going through a bad spell and then disappear for weeks on end when things are going well. The next time we hit a rough patch they then pop up again with such a gleeful 'told-you-so' attitude they come across (to me at least) as if they are actually happier with the club failing because it proves them right then they are with club succeeding because that proves them wrong.

Phew, I thought it was just me who held that theory.

 

[canveyshrimper]

Missed this post first time round, but I agree completely.

Come on then state your views it's an open forum.

 

[Richard_Cadette]

OK a lot of points in your post I would like to respond to.
First of all I accept that the language I used in my post was not helpful and I apologise for it.
I would like to clear up a few things if I can.
I didn't say you offended me and I hope I don't claim any right to the moral high ground.
What I did say was I felt the same anger you were feeling. Whereas you seemed to be feeling it towards the club I was feeling it towards the sentiments you and many others were expressing.
The spineless comment I made was out-of-order. I do often find you to have an overly negative view of things - you are entitled to that, I am entitled to disagree.
I do get very frustrated at those posters (and there are plenty) who pop up on here whenever the club is going through a bad spell and then disappear for weeks on end when things are going well. The next time we hit a rough patch they then pop up again with such a gleeful 'told-you-so' attitude they come across (to me at least) as if they are actually happier with the club failing because it proves them right then they are with club succeeding because that proves them wrong.
Interestingly you are correct in stating I am quite happy with life though obviouly not with Southend's recent form.
I have to disagree with your comment that "The situation we are in at the moment is not one we should be facing from where we were last season, as simple as that."
This to me sounds like exactly the sort of stuff I was saying about people sounding like they thought they had a right to follow a successful team.
Maybe its a problem of how the written word comes across and maybe face-to-face all the non-verbal language would give a more rounded message.
I certainly agree with your comment that "I want my club to be as prosperous as it possible can be".
My own view of how that can be achieved is
- either by someone throwing pots of money at the club and I see no sign of anyone going to do that right now
- or by the long haul and it seems to me that some of the building blocks for that are being put in place, eg, stability off-the-pitch, youth development and the new stadium plans.
To me it seems inevitable that there are going to be rough patches along the road to achieving that goal. It often seems to me that every time we hit one of the patches some people demand imemdiate drastic action , any action, as long as its something and regardless of whether it would help in the long run.
I'm sure mistakes have been made by Ron Martin and Steve Tilson. But at the moment as I said above I don't see where the alternative to Ron Martin is. I also happen to think that Steve Tilson has done well enough during his time as manager to be allowed time to turn things around.

I'll make this brief, if only for the sake of server space.

Firstly, I appreciate the apology, and it is wholly accepted - we can all say things in the heat of the moment (and I have been no exception) and I won't hold it against you. As I said at the time, I have no issue with you, or anyone else, disagreeing with me - that's the beauty of a forum such as this, and you're also correct when you say the written word can be misinterpreted a lot easier than the spoken word.

Secondly, I take fully on board your point regarding some people who post on here only in the face of adversity - I would hope you have realised, regardless of the content, I am not one of them. In fact, over the last couple of months, I have, on countless occasions, spent time defending the likes of Jimmy Walker, Alex Revell, Peter Clarke and most recently, Kevin Betsy. In addition to that, I have always maintained that I believe Tilly should continue in his current role. It may seem that my posts can be on the negative side at times, but then I suppose it's all relative - the club are struggling right now, so a lot of the topics will have a downbeat tinge to them - but I genuinely call things as I see them, and I have a strong sense of what is right and wrong.

Finally, just to clear one point up - my remark regarding the fact I don't believe we should be in the position we are currently is not bourne out of some belief that we have a God given right to success, it is simply founded on the fact that we had a decent side last season which made the playoffs, and despite losing 2 key players, we received on the face of it money to try and plug the gaps they left. That hasn't happened, and the squad is significantly weaker than it was, and it is my firm belief that we should have pushed on from May last year rather than let what has happened happen.

Again, thanks for taking the time to clear up our differences, and hope we can 'do debate' in the future on much friendlier terms :)