9/11

[palexander]

..and away from Taxi's and McDonalds

I've just watched a superb documentary that anyone who is interested in 9/11 MUST see... its not your normal '9/11 was a conspiracy' type film with no evidence.

This docu has video evidence from the day that has either never been seen before, examined in such detail or shown only once and pulled.

Things that come out of it:-

* Its plainly obvious the two towers were brought down by explosives placed in the buildings and not the planes. Fireman who were IN the building before the collapse commentated they saw charges placed on supports throughoyt the towers. Experts have said the way the buildings came down was EXACTLY how a building would be pulled down and if the planes caused it, there would be very messy collapses - i.e. some parts would collapse, others wouldnt until later. These buildings came down in one smooth motion...

* Its also clear that no plane hit the Pentagon as is pretty much the belief of many people now anyway. The live video evidence from the day shows a tiny hole at first - not the gaping hole after the collapse. Also, there is very little burn damage that SHOULD have been caused by all the fuel in the plane exploding - infact there are wood and plastic items on the very edge of the crash hole UNMARKED...

* George Bush said he watched the first plane hit the tower just as he walked into the classroom that morning at the time the plane hit... yet as this was an 'unplanned' event, there was no live coverage of the 1st plane hitting the tower until days after 9/11.

* Eye witnesses and news reports JUST after the first and second planes hit all say it was NOT a commercial plane and certainly not an American Airlines jet. Many people have said it looked like a cargo plane and had no windows!

* Extreme close ups of the crash videos show 2 things. 1) Something was attached to the undercarage of the plane that certainly looks like a bomb or missile and has been confirmed that nothing like that can be attached to a commercial plane - even if it was, it would have been clearly spotted at the airport. 2) Before both crashes, there is a flash in the second before ANY contact between the plane and towers. Looks pretty much like an explosion or a missile being fired into the tower. This is not a reflection or anything as it is the same on 4 camera angles and happened on BOTH crashes.

* On one of the live feeds on the day, a few mins after both towers have been hit, you can clearly see for a few seconds a large plume of smoke from MUCH further down the tower and nowhere near the crash areas.... bomb?

* The owner of the twin towers admitted in an interview a few days after 9/11 that a decision was taken to 'pull' one of the smaller (40 floors) buildings down for 'safety' reasons by setting explosives in the floors. Apparantly this is impossible without a lot of planning and could not be down within an hour of a decision being made. Meaning the charges were already in place.

There was loads of other stuff and though I've put a lot here, I'd still highly recommend seeing it with your own eyes cos its pretty conclusive...

Anyway, its called "In Plane Site".

Until proved otherwise, I will forever blame America for 9/11 and the thought of that makes me feel physically sick... bastards.

 

[Mad Cyril]

Sorry, can't believe it for a second.

Too much risk of being exposed.

 

[palexander]

Think about it - look at everything that happened that the day. The confusion, anger, panic, upset, 24/7 (sorry ORM!) media coverage... SO much was going on that so many facts were reported and forgotten in favour of the next piece of breaking news.

My theory is that the USA planned on it being total chaos (obviously) that so much of the damning evidence got overlooked and hopefully forgotten.

3000+ people dead in an attack on America and almost immediately USA blames bin Laden - who is going to argue??? They will NEVER be exposed - or at least held accountable and what the hell is anyone gonna do about it anyway.

There will never be any proof - yet, where is the supposed proof of bin Laden's involvement?? There is NONE - yet we waged 2 wars and killed thousands more innocent men, woman and children....

 

[The 4th man]

Quote[/b] (Mad Cyril @ Sep. 09 2004,23:10)]Sorry, can't believe it for a second.

Too much risk of being exposed.

Hmm given the new evidence above (well except the George W bit (mind you im sure i remember seeing footage on the day of the 1st tower being struck !))

It sounds like a combination of almighty cockups (planned demolition, could have been found out and used (something like that would most likley have been planned a good deal in advance)) and USA's home land security being easily prised open, and them not admiiting to it.

I do work with an ex demolitions guy and his said the collapses of the towers are both identical to controled explosions , as something that size will just topple one way or the other with a lot more mess (ok the enourmous dust clouds for a couple of miles would have been even worse !).

 

[palexander]

Its so obviously a demo job - watch any video of it collapsing again - it blows 1 floor at a time!!!

Fireman on the scene said they heard "large explosions" before the collapse and others comment on how much it looks like a demo job done with charges.

As you say "4th", a 'normal' collapse from that impact would surely have been devasting... makes you wonder if they did it to protect even more lives - i.e. keep the damage to a minimum - imagine the towers falling to one side...

 

[palexander]

Flash... missile? Detonation?

http://www.911hoax.com/gboeing....geNum=8

 

[The General]

Sorry if i've missed this, but where did you see this docu' then Paul?!

Kev

 

[palexander]

I *ahem* acquired it the other day...

If you search for "In Plane Site" there is a good website that sells it and has loads of stills and clips to see on the site...

 

[CANV]

mmm.. last nights docu-soap covered the pentagon bit.. the missle theory is fine apart from the 100 odd people who saw a great big fecking plane doing 300 mph at 40 feet .. pictues of the first tower smoking were on t.v. almost straight away.. we were joking about it at work imagining some ****ed bloke in a cesssna would be hanging out of the building.. the videos of the first impact where on shortly after.. the second impact was on live..
as for the towers collpasing, there was a host of docs on this as well.. didnt they come to the conclusion the blast from the crash stripped the steel supports of their fire proofing and the heat from the burning fuel melted them.. and as one floor finally gave way the 15 or so above it had enough to start a domino effect that crushed the rest of the building.. the buildings were designed to withstand a fire.. or a plane crash..
i dont know about all the other new stuff in your secret film but if last nights documentary was the best they could do then this conspiracy theory is finished.. all they could conclusively say is that israel spies on the u.s. no really..?
i love a good conspiracy but this ones too flimsy.. im going back to the moon landings being fake

 

[Wessex Blue]

Sorry but this is b******s, one of my mates was in one of our offices in Brooklyn when it happened and he saw the second plane go into the tower.
Can you possibly imagine how much damage an 80 ton aircraft full of aviation fuel, travelling at 400 mph would do to fixed structure. A structure that supported hundreds of thousands of tons of concrete at that...! Once the supports were damaged and then weakened by fire it was just a matter of time before they gave way.
One other thought, don't you think that people going to work in the WTC might have noticed strategically placed explosives dotted around the building?
I don't know what happened at the Pentagon but the WTC was an expertly planned and devastatingingly executed terrorist attack, I don't beleive for a moment it was a conspiracy.

 

[Javea Shrimper]

I've read through the 911 Hoax site and a lot of the theories offered really don't convince me that it was anything other than a terrible attack by fanatical terrorists. My last company had offices in the WTC - we watched the attacks live like everybody else - and they saw aircraft smash violently into the buildings.

WS

 

[palexander]

Quote[/b] (Wessex Blue @ Sep. 10 2004,10:15)]Sorry but this is b******s, one of my mates was in one of our offices in Brooklyn when it happened and he saw the second plane go into the tower.
Can you possibly imagine how much damage an 80 ton aircraft full of aviation fuel, travelling at 400 mph would do to fixed structure. A structure that supported hundreds of thousands of tons of concrete at that...! Once the supports were damaged and then weakened by fire it was just a matter of time before they gave way.
One other thought, don't you think that people going to work in the WTC might have noticed strategically placed explosives dotted around the building?
I don't know what happened at the Pentagon but the WTC was an expertly planned and devastatingingly executed terrorist attack, I don't beleive for a moment it was a conspiracy.

Depends where the explosives were placed and if you knew what they were. Fireman and policeman who are probably fully aware of what a demolition type explosive device would look like are on record saying they saw them...

Anyone could see from the clips the impact of the collision and one can only imagine the heat generated inside the towers - I would guess more than enough heat to melt structural architecture... what I am unsure of, is if those supports were melted - fair do's, the top of the towers would certainly come down - would this cause the rest of the tower to fall in uniform fashion till it was flattened - OR would the top part of the towers fall and crumble smashing through the buildings in a more random way?... I'm not saying its impossible for the towers coming down like they did from just the plane damage, it just seems very 'neat' and so many demolition experts are convinced this was a 'demo' job...

Dont know if this was mentioned the other day on here, but apparantly the towers were a complete hazard anyway and would have to have been taken down by something like 2010 - imagine the cost in bringing them down in such a tight area - would probably have been impossible without causing a huge amount of damage to the surrounding financial district...

 

[palexander]

Quote[/b] (CANV @ Sep. 10 2004,10:11)]mmm..  last nights docu-soap covered the pentagon bit..  the missle theory is fine apart from the 100 odd people who saw a great big fecking plane doing 300 mph at 40 feet ..  pictues of the first tower smoking were on t.v. almost straight away..  we were joking about it at work imagining some ****ed bloke in a cesssna would be hanging out of the building..  the videos of the first impact where on shortly after..  the second impact was on live..
as for the towers collpasing, there was a host of docs on this as well.. didnt they come to the conclusion the blast from the crash stripped the steel supports of their fire proofing and the heat from the  burning fuel melted them.. and as one floor finally gave way the 15 or so above it had enough to start a domino effect that crushed the rest of the building..  the buildings were designed to withstand a fire.. or a plane crash..
i dont know about all the other new stuff in your secret film but if last nights documentary was the best they could do then this conspiracy theory is finished..  all they could conclusively say is that israel spies on the u.s.   no really..?
i love a good conspiracy but this ones too flimsy.. im going back to the moon landings being fake

Yea, I thought about all the witnesses - but to be fair there are the same amount that are convinced they "saw a missile", "it was a cruz missile" etc etc

My theory on the Pentagon is that there was SOMETHING in the Pentagon that had to be destroyed and the plane was a cover up. I have no idea what and the whole idea sounds far to crazy to be true... one thing I did find last night whilst digging around (again, just theories etc - BUT the facts ARE there for anyone to see)...

The US airforce was carrying out 'war games' in the skies of New York on 9/11 - test drills involving militery planes. These planes were either flown into the towers by the militery themselves or these planes were 'hijacked' by the terrorists and used. The Pentagon was the control base for these war-games and thats why that area was destroyed - destroying the computer systems, documents and data relating to that mornings drills. The war games and computers systems in the Pentagon that morning are FACT and detailed info can be found on websites... the people who believe this also point to the fact that no action was taken by the airforce until AFTER the Pentagon 'attack' (cannot remeber if it was 40 mins or an hour after the towers were hit) and all of that data was safely destroyed - yet the drills above New York were for practicing an air strike on the US and how F14's can be scrambled in a matter of minutes - not 40-60 mins - to deal with hijacked planes...

The initial reports minutes following the attack from people around the twin towers is that they planes were NOT commercial jets, had no windows, had no American Airline markings and 'looked like cargo/milatery' planes...

 

[palexander]

OK... sorry for the 'one-man-conspiracy-crusade'

Last one before I must get on with some proper work...

As I said, I believe something in the Pentagon was destroyed on purpose by the Americans to cover something up... again, I dont know what, but any fans of the X-Files will know the lengths the government will go to, to keep secrets - even killing there own with no second thought...

Ah, but thats just a TV show, not real right?... ok... many of you may know this, some may not. There was a spin-off show from the X-Files called "The Lone Gunman" about the 3 guys in the X-Files that help Mulder from time to time.

Episdoe 1 of "The Lone Gunman" was aired a couple of months BEFORE 9/11. The story of that episode was about a commercial airplane being remotely hijacked and flown into the World Trade Centre by an American Government agency. The episode shows the plane heading towards the actual towers filmed in New York (tho obviously the towers are *just* saved at the last second)...

Life imitating art...?

 

[W4 Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (CANV @ Sep. 10 2004,10:11)]mmm..  last nights docu-soap covered the pentagon bit..  the missle theory is fine apart from the 100 odd people who saw a great big fecking plane doing 300 mph at 40 feet ..  pictues of the first tower smoking were on t.v. almost straight away..  we were joking about it at work imagining some ****ed bloke in a cesssna would be hanging out of the building..  the videos of the first impact where on shortly after..  the second impact was on live..
as for the towers collpasing, there was a host of docs on this as well.. didnt they come to the conclusion the blast from the crash stripped the steel supports of their fire proofing and the heat from the  burning fuel melted them.. and as one floor finally gave way the 15 or so above it had enough to start a domino effect that crushed the rest of the building..  the buildings were designed to withstand a fire.. or a plane crash..
i dont know about all the other new stuff in your secret film but if last nights documentary was the best they could do then this conspiracy theory is finished..  all they could conclusively say is that israel spies on the u.s.   no really..?
i love a good conspiracy but this ones too flimsy.. im going back to the moon landings being fake

A very good documentary I thought. Successfully blew the crackpot theories out of the water.

No plane hit the Pentagon. Oh please....

 

[Benfleetshrimp]

I love a good conspiracy theory.

With regards the 911 incidents there are many unanswered questions which lead to all the thories. Most of which are outlandish.
There are many very interesting questions that do make you think.

George W BUSH.

He claims to have watched the first plane hit the tower on TV and his initial thoughts were what a bad pilot. This was while he was waiting to go into the elementary school on a well publicised visit.
It is FACT that the only footage of the first tower being hit is from an Israelli film crew who happened to be filming a doccumentary about NYFD. So how could BUSH have watched this? This footage only became available hours after the last incident.

The second attack on the WTC. BUSH is notified by an advisor " The second tower has been hit. Its terorists. America is under attack"
BUSH then sat there for 17 minutes listening to children read stories to him.
If America was really under attack why wasnt BUSH whisked away to safety somewhere insted of being at the school where everyone knew he was?

The second richest man in the world, and American (cant recall his name) has a large interest in the WTC complex. Was it pure coincidence that he happened to be playing golf on the same airbase that BUSH was eventually taken to.

America's air defence system.

In 2000 NORAD scrambled F16 fighter aircrafts 67 times in American airspace due to Commerical aircraft flying off course or turning transponders off.
On 11th September 2001 one of two possibles happened. Either the F16s werent scrambled in time or the pilots bimbled along to New York with no real urgency. They arrived apparently after the second plane hit. They then flew in combat patrol over the skies of New York.
All the while the powers to be were aware that a third and fourth plane had been hi jacked or they suspected it.
After the second tower was hit someone allowed a commerical aircraft to make a 180 degree turn on its flight path, turn its transponder off and fly for 27 minutes in a direct line for Washington.
The two F16s now in New York were scrambled to intercept this flight.
F16s can fly at 1870mph. It has been calculated that the two F16s flew to Washington to intercept this suspect aircraft at 28% of maximum speed. By rights if the flew full whack they would have travelled the 250 miles to Washington in under 10 mins allowing them probably 5 mins before the plane gained visual on the pentagon.


Chosen Targets.

The WTC were well chosen targets. Symbols of America and New York and known around the world. Why chose to hit these buildings just after 9am? If they had waited until 2pm there would have been 50,000+ people inside both towers.
Why aim for and hit the top floors? If they had aimed lower down say 40th floors surely they would have killed alot more people.

Two of the four hijacked planes flew over the second biggest terorist target in the States. They flew over a complex of three Nuclear power bases. Two of which were active. If these bases were attacked it has been calculated that this may have caused 20 million related deaths. So why fly directly over these bases?
I could go on and on but am getting bored typing and I have to do some work.

In conclusion I am not saying that all this means that there are dark forces at work in the American goverment its just interesting when questions raise even more questions.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (W4 Shrimper @ Sep. 10 2004,11:16)]

Quote[/b] (CANV @ Sep. 10 2004,10:11)]mmm..  last nights docu-soap covered the pentagon bit..  the missle theory is fine apart from the 100 odd people who saw a great big fecking plane doing 300 mph at 40 feet ..  pictues of the first tower smoking were on t.v. almost straight away..  we were joking about it at work imagining some ****ed bloke in a cesssna would be hanging out of the building..  the videos of the first impact where on shortly after..  the second impact was on live..
as for the towers collpasing, there was a host of docs on this as well.. didnt they come to the conclusion the blast from the crash stripped the steel supports of their fire proofing and the heat from the  burning fuel melted them.. and as one floor finally gave way the 15 or so above it had enough to start a domino effect that crushed the rest of the building..  the buildings were designed to withstand a fire.. or a plane crash..
i dont know about all the other new stuff in your secret film but if last nights documentary was the best they could do then this conspiracy theory is finished..  all they could conclusively say is that israel spies on the u.s.   no really..?
i love a good conspiracy but this ones too flimsy.. im going back to the moon landings being fake

A very good documentary I thought. Successfully blew the crackpot theories out of the water.

No plane hit the Pentagon. Oh please....

Hmm the main theory dosent argue that a plane didnt hit the pentagon , just not a 767 . Its normaly descriped as a small aircraft or missle.

As for the burn thoery , well yes its fesable , but the collapse would still have been uncontrolled and surly there wouldnt have been that well displaced over the floors to make a common heat in every part ? Wouldnt some parts have been cooler thus the heavier parts falling first or the central part of teh floors etc?

Didnt someone at the time mention the differnce between fuel explosion and explosive and teh concussive force producded by each and the resulting damage ?

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (Benfleetshrimp @ Sep. 10 2004,10:30)]I love a good conspiracy theory.

With regards the 911 incidents there are many unanswered questions which lead to all the thories. Most of which are outlandish.
There are many very interesting questions that do make you think.

George W BUSH.  

He claims to have watched the first plane hit the tower on TV and his initial thoughts were what a bad pilot. This was while he was waiting to go into the elementary school on a well publicised visit.
It is FACT that the only footage of the first tower being hit is from an Israelli film crew who happened to be filming a doccumentary about NYFD. So how could BUSH have watched this? This footage only became available hours after the last incident.

The second attack on the WTC. BUSH is notified by an advisor " The second tower has been hit. Its terorists. America is under attack"
BUSH then sat there for 17 minutes listening to children read stories to him.
If America was really under attack why wasnt BUSH whisked away to safety somewhere insted of being at the school where everyone knew he was?

The second richest man in the world, and American (cant recall his name) has a large interest in the WTC complex. Was it pure coincidence that he happened to be playing golf on the same airbase that BUSH was eventually taken to.

America's air defence system.

In 2000 NORAD scrambled F16 fighter aircrafts 67 times in American airspace due to Commerical aircraft flying off course or turning transponders off.
On 11th September 2001 one of two possibles happened. Either the F16s werent scrambled in time or the pilots bimbled along to New York with no real urgency. They arrived apparently after the second plane hit. They then flew in combat patrol over the skies of New York.
All the while the powers to be were aware that a third and fourth plane had been hi jacked or they suspected it.
After the second tower was hit someone allowed a commerical aircraft to make a 180 degree turn on its flight path, turn its transponder off and fly for 27 minutes in a direct line for Washington.
The two F16s now in New York were scrambled to intercept this flight.
F16s can fly at 1870mph. It has been calculated that the two F16s flew to Washington to intercept this suspect aircraft at 28% of maximum speed. By rights if the flew full whack they would have travelled the 250 miles to Washington in under 10 mins allowing them probably 5 mins before the plane gained visual on the pentagon.


Chosen Targets.

The WTC were well chosen targets. Symbols of America and New York and known around the world. Why chose to hit these buildings just after 9am? If they had waited until 2pm there would have been 50,000+ people inside both towers.
Why aim for and hit the top floors? If they had aimed lower down say 40th floors surely they would have killed alot more people.

Two of the four hijacked planes flew over the second biggest terorist target in the States. They flew over a complex of three Nuclear power bases. Two of which were active. If these bases were attacked it has been calculated  that this may have caused 20 million related deaths. So why fly directly over these bases?
I could go on and on but am getting bored typing and I have to do some work.

In conclusion I am not saying that all this means that there are dark forces at work in the American goverment its just interesting when questions raise even more questions.

I can answer most of those...

One, Bush is an idiot. He probably claimed to have watched the first plane, but probably didn't.

Two, Bush would have been safer at that school than anywhere else at that time. What was he supposed to do? Panic? No, you rationalise. I expect his advisers were there assisting him.

Three, I didn't know that, but it probably was coincidence. Rich guys play golf...

Four, people make mistakes. I'm sure the air force wouldn;t have deliberately gone slowly...

Five- why just after 9am? Start of the day, I guess. Easier for people to be unaware? Why aim for the top floors? Why not? Don;t think there was any rational thinking behind this.

Six- if they had done that, that would have been start of the apocalypse. Not even terrorists want that.

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (pboreham @ Sep. 10 2004,09:48)]Episdoe 1 of "The Lone Gunman" was aired a couple of months BEFORE 9/11. The story of that episode was about a commercial airplane being remotely hijacked and flown into the World Trade Centre by an American Government agency. The episode shows the plane heading towards the actual towers filmed in New York (tho obviously the towers are *just* saved at the last second)...

Life imitating art...?

I already posted this. Keep up.

 

[Benfleetshrimp]

Paul,
Its been doccumented that Dick Cheney was at some kind of function and when it all kicked off he was escorted out by security officials with his feet barely touching the floor. Why wasnt Bush? It would be very easy to make excuses and leave without causing panic. Bush was told America is under attack.

Of course rich guys play golf they must get to visit all the top golf courses in the world including air bases?

People do make mistakes and then try to cover them up. I can accept that perhaps the F16s were scrambled too late for the second WTC plane. But then to make the same mistake after two attacks and confirmed hijackings I find hard to comprehend.

As an aside one of the engines from the plane that crashed in Pensylvania was found eight miles from the crash site. A normal plane crash does not scatter debris that far. A plane shot by a missile does though. I can understand why if the plane was downed by a missile that has been kept quiet.