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Tommy2holes

Life President⭐
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
8,532
I have been thinking about the Mcdonald situation aswell as Foran Zoltan and more worryingly Gilbert and Francis

We have players at the club that for some reason or another are not getting games and in my honest opinion are far superior to what we have playing and yet with Tilly's inability to rotate the SQUAD that he has built i dont see much point in having a squad.

The following players are wasting there time and more importantly the clubs resources:

Foran (200k!!) gone on loan to Darlington and probably wont come back.

Mcdonald, has two inept players infront of him in harold and hooper and yet when clarke is injured we bring in another loanee. Hand in a transfer/loan request.

Francis, imho the best right back at the club barr none. Will he play again? Why not give him a go on the wing the kid can sure beat a man and can also track back.

Kerry Gilbert. Played for Arsenal in the prem and champions league, but finds himself in our reserves behind francis and more insultingly lewis hunt. Why is he still here? Are we paying his wages ?

Zoltan Liptak, one for the furture or so we are told, but why is it that other youngsters get the odd league game or at least LDV/ Carling cup against lower league oppostion. Will he ever start a fist team match? Unlikey.

Che Wilson. Got a lot of time for Che as he is a useful squad player , but why play two games a year when you could play every game else where. If he is happy with this do we want him?

I mean i know tilly is still newish to management , but should we have players on loan not playing or players we have paid money for going out on loan or being shipped out on free's. Or more importantly should we have players that are better than reserve football not playing or being benched by loanees? Am i the only one starting to question tilly's judgement?
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
19,752
Location
G69
Foran was only £150k we didn't have to pay the extra £50k as we went down!
MacDonald, yes fair enough, but maybe they see him as one for the future.
Gilbert, obviously not the player they hoped, plus guess has issues especially after his touchline argument with Dean Austin at a reserve game!
Zoltan, again one for the future, always brought in with long-term view in mind.
Che, always going to be a squad player, especially with Stevie as the main LB

It's Francis & Richards I'm more concerned about the absence of (MacDonald too but to a lesser extent!)
 

loz

President
Joined
Dec 8, 2003
Messages
3,341
Location
Das Kraftwerk
there are some different situations here though, it's not that cut-and-dried. e.g:

- Zoltan. was explicitly stated when we signed him that he wasn't expected to be ready for the first team for a few months.

- Cheese. Surely only ever expected to be a squad player, and re-signed on that basis.

Gilbert- suggestions at least of attitude problems, + hasn't performed to nearly the standard most people expected.

the other 3 are trickier. Foran is obviously looking like a black mark for Tilly, and i'm with you with regards Charlie Mac, and Francis to an extent (although with Francis, it might just show that Tilly is less happy than last year with playing players out of position). There's definitely a cause for concern here, but we have to be careful about jumping to conclusions. Charlie for example might have got more of a run in the team had he not had a couple of nagging injuries.
 
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
10,113
Location
Wixams
My only concerns are really with Francis and Richards. While Francis was injurednot 100% fit, Lewis Hunt put in some good performances, so fair enoughon that one. Charlie Mac, I really dont see what all the fuss is about, he has done nothing in any game he has come on in, I dont think he will be good enough to be honest (I said THINK, I appreciate he has not been given a run for me to be sure of that).

Che and Zoltan are surely getting exactly what we and they expected.

Foran, well I have voiced my opinion on that before
 

C C Csiders

Life President
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
12,192
Location
On the journey to spiritual enlightenment (via the
My only concerns are really with Francis and Richards. While Francis was injurednot 100% fit, Lewis Hunt put in some good performances, so fair enoughon that one. Charlie Mac, I really dont see what all the fuss is about, he has done nothing in any game he has come on in, I dont think he will be good enough to be honest (I said THINK, I appreciate he has not been given a run for me to be sure of that).

Che and Zoltan are surely getting exactly what we and they expected.

Foran, well I have voiced my opinion on that before

Couldn't agree more. McDonald doesn't look all that to me - I just cannot see what the fuss is about.
 

Richard_Cadette

The Realist
Joined
May 11, 2005
Messages
1,613
Location
Eastwood, Leigh-on-Sea
The reason we have a big squad is to be able to cope with injuries, suspensions and loss of form which will occur over the course of a season.

You were one of the many of us complaining about how small our squad was last season, and now you are questioning why we have a larger one!!

I dont believe in rotation for rotation's sake, a settled side is likely to be more successful, and changes only need to be made if something, or moreover, someone, isnt working out, e.g loss of form.

All this fuss about Simon Francis is quite amusing IMO, he was pretty awful last season, especially to begin with, and a lot of people on here were calling for him to be dropped - now with no evidence of any improvement since then, people are calling for him to be put back in - which I find even more baffling seeing as Lewis Hunt just won the Player of the Month award!! He is doing an excellent job, and no way does he deserve to be dropped, so how would you fit Francis in?

The same applies to Gilbert.

Your points regarding Foran and MacDonald hold more water - I too find it very strange that neither has been given a decent run this season, especially when you consider that only one of our "strikers" is scoring. Perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye, certainly where Foran is concerned. I doubt we will see him pull on a Southend shirt again.

With regards to Richards and Liptak - that would involve dropping either Barrett, Clarke or Hammell, I individually I dont think any of those 3 are a worse option than Liptak or Richards.

It's a long season, and suspension, injury and loss of form will happen, and look how dearly it cost us last season. That is precisely why we have a larger squad, and it is a must for any team who wishes to be successful,
 

Tommy2holes

Life President⭐
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
8,532
I am all for having a large squad i never said otherwise i just dont see the point in having players that:

A) Are not good enough fior first team football (in tilly's eyes anyway)
B) Are taking a wage not to play

Regarding Mcdonald i have seen him play a limited amount of times , but have thought he looks bright and lively and is worth at least half an hour of the bench, but with all subs coming at around the 85th minute or later is there any point having players on the bench!

If the point of having a squad is to use the squad when injuries suspensions kick in then why have we loaned another striker when we had a striker on the bench we have paid money for and another who is itching to get a game. We then loan the former out. Is there any point in a squad if we are just going to loan players in as cover? Is this not a waste of funds?

As for lewis hunt getting player of the month this either highlights a lack of quality from other players or bad judgment from those who vote as Bailey Macca Leon barratt and imho collis have all been vastly superior to a right back that refuses to stay in the position he is asked and often gets caught out.

If i were Ron martin i would be very weary about giving Tilly money when atleast 300k of has been spent on players who have hardly touched a ball and will not do so in the near future. Could this be the reason for the loan players being signed?
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2004
Messages
19,752
Location
G69
If the point of having a squad is to use the squad when injuries suspensions kick in then why have we loaned another striker when we had a striker on the bench we have paid money for and another who is itching to get a game. We then loan the former out. Is there any point in a squad if we are just going to loan players in as cover? Is this not a waste of funds?

Remember though we don't see what goes on day to day on the training pitch. Has the certain person you refer to who's now been loaned out, not applied himself as much in training as a six figure transfer fee demands and that's why he's been shipped out?

There is a waste of funds in this whole equation but I don't agree it's in terms of paying for loan players!
 

WestRoadShrimper

Teachers Pet
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
2,428
Location
Sunny, sunny, Westcliff
I am all for having a large squad i never said otherwise i just dont see the point in having players that:

A) Are not good enough fior first team football (in tilly's eyes anyway)
B) Are taking a wage not to play

Isn't that a bit of a contradiction? Unless you only have 14 players at a club (assuming you use all of your subs every match) then there will always be players being paid and not playing

:thump:
 

Yorkshire Blue

Super Moderator⭐
Staff member
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
36,127
Location
London
Were you watching the second half of last season, he was without a doubt one of our best players.

Were you watching the second half of the season, when he regularly switched off, "cleared" the ball into dangerous areas of the pitch and when we conceded 3 goals nearly every game?
 

shrimper dan

Coach
Joined
Jun 21, 2005
Messages
584
Location
Inside Kev's left boot
Were you watching the second half of the season, when he regularly switched off, "cleared" the ball into dangerous areas of the pitch and when we conceded 3 goals nearly every game?

so your saying every goal we conceded last season were francis's fault. we did have another 3 defenders playing. and you seem to forget the strikers in this league are far worse than the ones in the championship.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
826
In my opinion it is not about who it is about the size and strength of the squad. We got relegated last year because we did not win 18 games and during that time we had Clarke in midfiels and all sorts of combinations because our squad was not big enough. Tilly has learnt fro this so now we have a bigger squad but that creates other problems ie how do we keep them all happy. McDonald should be using this as a learning experience, Francis needs to be patient and would guess his chance will come this weekend replacing Moussa, Foran always seemed to put in the effort for the stiffs and has been played out of position so guess he got pi**ed off and wanted games (fair enough) Hooper given chances, has not delivered, Gilbert only looks like a good squad player, Che-same again. So in conclusion think Tilson has a good squad but views it as weak in the Striking areand will bring in players in that area! Think if we had this squad last year with Freddy we would have stayed up
 
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