Do we just have to accept we're stuck with Ron Martin now?

[nnatt76!]

Stuck?

I am probably the only person here who does not mind RM and wants him to stay. you will get someone else in and 5 years later be moaning about them ZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Beefy]

But if my maths is half as good as my looks then surely ron needs to rake in over 22 mil to get his companys out of the poo so a offer of blah blah is no good unless its more then 22 mil,but good luck anyway e b.

This.

For all the talk of him bleeding the Club dry, I firmly believe that Ron Martin's financial solvency is completely relient on completing the developments at Roots Hall and Fossetts Farm. Selling up for 8-10m is no good if it doesn't touch the sides of what he owes because the chances of him being able to reposition Martin Dawn to take up some new project somewhere else to get him out of bother have to be slim. To borrow the poker terminology, he's 'all in' here.

That doesn't help us, of course. But it sets the reality of the situation and the framework that the Consortium need to work with. They know this, of course, which is why they won't step in unless the Club goes into Administration and they can pick the Club up cheap. It's way too over-priced to deal at the sort of level that would be feasible from Ron Martin's perspective, but putting pressure on Ron Martin seems unlikely to be successful because whatever we shout at him, whatever we threaten him with, it's still going to be preferable to him than the likely alternatives (ie the collapse of his companies and probable bankruptcy).

If the Consortium want people to get behind them then they have to demonstrate to us exactly how their take-over would advance the new stadium, because from where I'm sitting it looks like it would slow it down. Ron Martin owns the lot.

I don't like what has happened to my football club. But I like even less the thought of it being used as a football between two sets of property developers.

 

[fbm]

What concerns me is that even if Ron loses control of the club, he is owed considerable amounts of money that he hasn't as yet demanded but then almost certainly would, and wouldn't he also be the landlord? The club could be crippled financially for years to come.

ES, could you clarify and elaborate on how the consortium plans to overcome that? My entire view on this is based on the fact that Ron owns the club but one day will want to sell so it will have to be in better shape than it is now. If he benefits, then we benefit. If he can't see it through, then presumably one of the many he owes money to will succeed in bringing him down and the consortium can then pick up the club from the administrators.

Maybe that's too simplistic and no, I'm not happy with whats gone on over the last few months or the way it has been handled. But as I've said previously, especially in the light of the last few days events, saving our club is NOT the same as getting Ron out. You can surely appreciate that some people will consider that the only reason the consortium are interested is so that they can make the money Ron was making. I note that only about half of the consortium are SUFC fans. What are the others in it for then? My guess is money, and I also guess that they are the ones with the deep pockets.

Ron at least has some sort of plan. Many may not like it (or even believe it) but I for one am concerned about phrases like "everything else falls into place" because I have no idea what everything else or the places they fall into are.

 

[Razam]

(b) because (as I understand it) they have control over a crucial bit of land that Sainsbury's would want

Could you elaborate at the above part please. Is the 'crucial bit of land' directly linked to the redevelopment of Root's Hall? ie. is the redevelopment of Roots Hall vis-a-vis Fossetts Farm delayed/stagnated/etc. as a result of this 'crucial bit of land'?

I also think, the most important thing that the consortium need to do in regards to allaying the fears of the fans, is to show that; Ron Martins ownership of Fossetts Farm land & tenancy agreement with Roots Hall, will not negatively impact the club, if the consortium/sainsburys take control of SUFC.

 

[Lester Bangs]

(a) because they have the funding in place to start building the new stadium
(b) because (as I understand it) they have control over a crucial bit of land that Sainsbury's would want

So are the consortium going to use this ransom strip to force Sainsburys hand? This is a risky strategy for all involved especially Southend United.

 

[Firestorm]

(a) because they have the funding in place to start building the new stadium
(b) because (as I understand it) they have control over a crucial bit of land that Sainsbury's would want

So The consortium have , at best, purchased a bit of land with the intention of making a fast buck out of the project , or , at worst, are considering scuppering the whole plan just so they can get their way .

Nice

 

[Beefy]

So The consortium have , at best, purchased a bit of land with the intention of making a fast buck out of the project , or , at worst, are considering scuppering the whole plan just so they can get their way .

Nice

EB hasn't said that. I'm hoping that this is just an unfortunate turn of phrase.

 

[Firestorm]

EB hasn't said that. I'm hoping that this is just an unfortunate turn of phrase.

When White Swan (IIRC) purchased a strip of land at FF after RM refused to bow to the owners high price (C 2001 I believe), these were the sort or phrases used at the time (although it was on the yahoo list and not SZ) . Just because the new land owner is purporting to be a saviour I don't think it makes them any less viable

 

[ElstreeBlue]

So The consortium have , at best, purchased a bit of land with the intention of making a fast buck out of the project , or , at worst, are considering scuppering the whole plan just so they can get their way .

Nice

Where did I say that? Why are you misquoting me?

I find it baffling how a few people on here distrust the consortium so much when they're not the ones who have broken promises.

If there's another credible alternative for the club's future, I'd be genuinely interested to hear it. Seriously. And I'm not counting the incumbent - that option has lacked credibility for a long time now. The consortium are the only ones to have put themselves forward as an alternative to the disaster that we've been witnessing.

On the other hand, we can continue with the current regime and the way they treat the club and the people associated with it, if that's what the fans collectively want and we can see where that gets us. They're doing pretty well at the moment. Not.

 

[Napster]

Where did I say that? Why are you misquoting me?

I find it baffling how a few people on here distrust the consortium so much when they're not the ones who have broken promises.

If there's another credible alternative for the club's future, I'd be genuinely interested to hear it. Seriously. And I'm not counting the incumbent - that option has lacked credibility for a long time now. The consortium are the only ones to have put themselves forward as an alternative to the disaster that we've been witnessing.

On the other hand, we can continue with the current regime and the way they treat the club and the people associated with it, if that's what the fans collectively want and we can see where that gets us. They're doing pretty well at the moment. Not.

Oh dear - the consortium are angry.

 

[Beefy]

Where did I say that? Why are you misquoting me?

I find it baffling how a few people on here distrust the consortium so much when they're not the ones who have broken promises.

If there's another credible alternative for the club's future, I'd be genuinely interested to hear it. Seriously. And I'm not counting the incumbent - that option has lacked credibility for a long time now. The consortium are the only ones to have put themselves forward as an alternative to the disaster that we've been witnessing.

On the other hand, we can continue with the current regime and the way they treat the club and the people associated with it, if that's what the fans collectively want and we can see where that gets us. They're doing pretty well at the moment. Not.

The way that you've phrased your previous post could be taken to mean that the Consortium have a piece of land which Sainsburys need to complete this development and that they'll stand in the Club's way if they don't get what they want.

As I said, I think that was just an unfortunate turn of phrase on your part and I'm sure we'd all feel better if you clarified the point.

 

[Cricko]

Oh dear - the consortium are angry.

That is slightly unfair Naps.....At least Elstree is showing us an alternative option to the megalomaniac that runs the club at the moment.

 

[fbm]

I don't distrust the consortium, I just am not convinced that upsetting the apple cart now, when things actually seem to be moving upwards at last, is the right thing to do.

I also have concerns that I have mentioned earlier in this thread that would further prevent me from backing the consortium AT THIS STAGE and it may well be that my concerns may be exaggerated or even unnecessary; but it's not the first time I've raised them and no-one has ever come up with a response.

I just don't want us to jump out of the frying pan and into the wok. I think many people are so blinded by their hatred of Ron Martin that they have lost sight of the long term picture.

 

[Beefy]

That is slightly unfair Naps.....At least Elstree is showing us an alternative option to the megalomaniac that runs the club at the moment.

How are they an option if they've said that they will only step in if we go into Administration (which doesn't look likely)?

Until they give us far more information than they have at the moment, regarding their plans for the Club and specifically the developments at Fossetts Farm then they will be viewed with scepticism. Obviously they don't see themselves as purely being a safety net in the event that we fall into Administration.

 

[Razam]

Could you elaborate at the above part please. Is the 'crucial bit of land' directly linked to the redevelopment of Root's Hall? ie. is the redevelopment of Roots Hall vis-a-vis Fossetts Farm delayed/stagnated/etc. as a result of this 'crucial bit of land'?

I also think, the most important thing that the consortium need to do in regards to allaying the fears of the fans, is to show that; Ron Martins ownership of Fossetts Farm land & tenancy agreement with Roots Hall, will not negatively impact the club, if the consortium/sainsburys take control of SUFC.

I am not pro-Ron nor pro-consortium, but just pro-SUFC. And like a lot of people on here, I am weary of going from one bad owner to a potentially 'nother bad owner/s. I guess it sometimes is the case 'better the devil you know' coz at least we are aware of what Ron Martin is about & have alot more information about his ownership. Admittedly mainly bad - but bad info is better than virtually no info, and that is where the hesitancy comes from.

 

[Jam_Man]

How are they an option if they've said that they will only step in if we go into Administration (which doesn't look likely)?

Until they give us far more information than they have at the moment, regarding their plans for the Club and specifically the developments at Fossetts Farm then they will be viewed with scepticism. Obviously they don't see themselves as purely being a safety net in the event that we fall into Administration.

Which is the scepticism I have.

Ron Martin and co have paid x amount of money into Southend United over the years in order to make a certain amount of money with the stadium.

If they have put in 10 million for example then they arent going to walk away for 5 million, even more so that most of it seems to be financed.

What is the offer the consortium are going to make to persuade the current owners the past investments were worthwhile?

Originally this was six figure sum, now ESB is saying 7 or 8 figures. Why cant they clarify how much they will pay to acquire the club ?

Why cant they say publicy we will pay x million to buy the club which will cover all Ron Martins liabilities?

If they wait till administration then that will confine us to 10 points deduction and a real chance of relegation to get teh club on the cheap, not really the knights in shining armour people think they are..

 

[Cricko]

How are they an option if they've said that they will only step in if we go into Administration (which doesn't look likely)?

Until they give us far more information than they have at the moment, regarding their plans for the Club and specifically the developments at Fossetts Farm then they will be viewed with scepticism. Obviously they don't see themselves as purely being a safety net in the event that we fall into Administration.

I agree with you there Beefy instead of just saying they will save the club we need to know how they intend to take the club forward and we need to have complete openness about it.

 

[Firestorm]

Where did I say that? Why are you misquoting me?

I find it baffling how a few people on here distrust the consortium so much when they're not the ones who have broken promises.

If there's another credible alternative for the club's future, I'd be genuinely interested to hear it. Seriously. And I'm not counting the incumbent - that option has lacked credibility for a long time now. The consortium are the only ones to have put themselves forward as an alternative to the disaster that we've been witnessing.

On the other hand, we can continue with the current regime and the way they treat the club and the people associated with it, if that's what the fans collectively want and we can see where that gets us. They're doing pretty well at the moment. Not.

You didn't say that, but why else would the consortium (or one of its members ) have purchased a piece of land when it was fully aware that the football club it purports to adore needs it for its final objective.

 

[Jedi Shrimper]

Exactly. All the positives, all the lack of proper info, all the rhetoric, we had it all before when Ron Martin took over (and I dare say we had it when Jobson took over etc). So what's new.

It could be suggested Elstree that instead of using SZ to bend the fans collective ears to the consortium, you should be taking note of what the fans on SZ want from the consortium and using your connection with them to put those views across. Because if they took note and offered answers people would be more willing to back their bid. Saying "We're not [insert current owners name], we'll correct mistakes, put the club back on a firm financial footing & get a new stadium built" is exactly what we've been told before.

 

[Firestorm]

Where did I say that? Why are you misquoting me?

I find it baffling how a few people on here distrust the consortium so much when they're not the ones who have broken promises.

If there's another credible alternative for the club's future, I'd be genuinely interested to hear it. Seriously. And I'm not counting the incumbent - that option has lacked credibility for a long time now. The consortium are the only ones to have put themselves forward as an alternative to the disaster that we've been witnessing.

On the other hand, we can continue with the current regime and the way they treat the club and the people associated with it, if that's what the fans collectively want and we can see where that gets us. They're doing pretty well at the moment. Not.

I admit I am being sceptical, perhaps I am uncomfortable with the football club being used by a property developers trying to bring about the demise of a rival and stirring up the fans of the club in an attempt to speed it along.

Perhaps if the consortium outlined how they intend to make the club self sustaining , rather then tub thumping rhetoric (with many on here call spin when RM does it) might aid their cause.


And before the accusations about being Pro RM start flying around , there was plenty of digging around done when RM took over too (Naps and myself) which involved digging around alleged connections between RM and Anton Johnson (nothing concrete was found and that was with assistance from several Scarbrough fans too)