Oh dear......

[Hong Kong Blue]

Matt Harrold averages a goal a game against Championship defences.

 

[Ljubljana Branch]

** FOOTBALL RULE OF THUMB ***

Those that don't play the game, don't understand the game.  

Therefore they can be incapable of realising that players are people/humans.  Humans relate very differently in different situations, enviroments, with nurturing and so do players.  If you write a player like Ricketts/Paynter/Harold off before he's even kicked a ball, says a lot more about your general knowledge and understanding of the game, than it does the ability of the player.

 

[Slipperduke]

Quote[/b] (Ljubljana Branch @ Sep. 01 2006,11:52)] If you write a player like Ricketts/Paynter/Harold off before he's even kicked a ball, says a lot more about your general knowledge and understanding of the game, than it does the ability of the player.

I quite agree. Poor old Paynter's had a couple of subs appearances where he's tried to score from 50 yards and one start. Let's go easy on him, it takes time to settle.

Not making any comparisons on skill, but do you think the Arsenal messageboard was like this a few years ago?

"What do you reckon about Terry Henry bloke? He looks awful to me. I mean, fair play, he's quick but he's got no end product. Why does Wenger always play people out of position, he's supposed to be a left-winger. We'll never replace Anelka with dross like this."

 

[Angell Delight]

Quote[/b] (londonblue @ Sep. 01 2006,11:24)]

Quote[/b] (Angell Delight @ Sep. 01 2006,09:36)]

Quote[/b] (Smudger @ Sep. 01 2006,09:29)]What a goalscoring record - looks like Broughtons......

The Yeovil fans are calling Russell Slade "a genius salesman" for getting money for him and saying he has looked completely out of his depth in League 1...........

To be fair mate take it from my own personal experience he looked out of his depth at Harlow!!! And I gotta say for someone who's game isn't to try and get in behind defenders Harrold gave me a lot of work in those nights at Harlow in terms of raising my flag.

Given that he is only 22 now he must have been a teenager then. Not really a surprise he looked out of his depth.

Maybe, just maybe, he's improved since then?

Yeah he was only 18 but I'd just like to emphasise the fact that this was HARLOW TOWN I'm talking about and if you look very poor in a league like that at 18 years old then it's not a good sign (and this was a good 5 or 6 games for me not just one).

 

[Flinty]

I strongly agree that we should give Harrold a chance.

In the home game against Yeovil last season, whilst enjoying mocking him with all the ginger jibes, I actually thought he looked lively when he came on and caused us more problems than Jevons, apart from that free kick.

Given that he is back "home" and is obviously hungry to grab his chance at a higher level with both hands we could have another Barrett situation as somebody previously mentioned.

As for all the people dismissing him already, how many games have you actually seen him play to make that judgement ?

Surely you cannot base your opinion on the basis of comments made by others as different people see different qualities. Anybody who has managed a side at any level, (not including Championship Manager) would tell you the need for balance in a team......perhaps Tilly see's Harrold as a vital piece in his team plans, we can't tell.

Just a though...Liverpool fans were over the moon about signing Kewell.....what do they think now?.......Reading picked up a striker no-one had heard of from Ireland, Kevin Doyle, a sought after player i now believe !

 

[Jam_Man]

Quote[/b] (ramblers shrimp @ Sep. 01 2006,12:18)]As for all the people dismissing him already, how many games have you actually seen him play to make that judgement ?

Surely you cannot base your opinion on the basis of comments made by others as different people see different qualities.  

I always give a player a chance to settle and make my mind up.

However with this signing, more than any other, Harrold comes with the majority of Yeovil fans happy to get rid of him saying he isnt good enough for League one.

Based on that feedback its reasonable to have doubts about this signing and to express them.

It was ok to rave about signing Clarke when we signed him based on the positive feedback we got so its got to be ok to question this one based on the same feedback.

We will see how he gets on but my expectations are that at best he will be one that we will be hoping to develop but wont be an instant hit.

Id love to proved wrong!

 

[Richard_Cadette]

I have to say, and I am not one for getting on players backs before they have played for us, that this, on paper, has the ability to be the most dissapointing signing we have made in a very long time.

I agree that we should all give him a chance, and give him our full support, thats the least we should do, but it is right and proper that we are allowed to express our concerns, just as we voice our delight when we either sign, or are linked with, someone we feel will do a good job for us.

The thing that annoys me the most about this transfer is that it is like we have forgotten what league we are in all of a sudden. We are now in the CHAMPIONSHIP and for a club of our size and resource cannot afford to be taking chances with players who are not proven at League Two/One level, let alone at this level. The jury for me is still well and truly out on Paynter, but I have seen glimpses from him that give me optimism.

Having seen all the games this season, Champinoship defences are a whole lot tougher to penetrate than the ones we are used to, and it seems that at the moment, they are taking to marking Freddie out of the game as we dont have another real threat, and certainly in the away games, this has worked.

Therefore, we need another striker who can cause them serious problems, and for me Ricketts, when fit, is the kind of striker who can do that.... Harrold, from what I have seen, is not.

The one thing we lack up front is out and out pace, something we had in Wayne Gray, so why we let him go to replace him with, in my eyes, mediocre strikers, I dont know, but I feel, as good as Tilly's record in the transfer market is, this one, will not work out.

We need to be buying players who are capable of securing our future at this level, and then taking us forward, and I just dont se that this signing is going to do that.

I dont feel as though this is a panic signing, I believe Paynter was one of them, as Tilly was desperate to get another striker in, and his efforts to get Agogo had failed, and so he had to do something, but when you think how much we paid for Paynter, and then the fee, whatever it may be, for Harrold, a it surely would have been better off on a player the like of we dont already have, i.e. Agogo?

The final point is why a three year contract?... I can understand the logic behind a one year deal and let him prove himself, but three years?

As I say, I will give whoever pulls on a blue shirt my full support and I hope to goodness he hits it off here, but I just feel we have precious little money to spend on people who just dont look like they will make the grade.

 

[Shrimpbizkit]

Yes but I imagine 95% of championship and prem players are out of our league wages wise hence why Tilly is looking at League 1 and 2. I do agree though, we lack anyone with blistering pace to unsettle a defence. Difficult to say how Wayne Gray wouldve fared in this league but I dont think he wouldve doen any worse than Paynter or Bradbury.

 

[KrustyTheKray]

Quote[/b] (Shrimpbizkit @ Sep. 01 2006,13:12)]Yes but I imagine 95% of championship and prem players are out of our league wages wise hence why Tilly is looking at League 1 and 2. I do agree though, we lack anyone with blistering pace to unsettle a defence. Difficult to say how Wayne Gray wouldve fared in this league but I dont think he wouldve doen any worse than Paynter or Bradbury.

i agree.

Tilly was wrong to get rid of him IMHO.

I'd rather have Gray than Badbuy anyday!

 

[londonblue]

Quote[/b] (Angell Delight @ Sep. 01 2006,12:09)]

Quote[/b] (londonblue @ Sep. 01 2006,11:24)]

Quote[/b] (Angell Delight @ Sep. 01 2006,09:36)]

Quote[/b] (Smudger @ Sep. 01 2006,09:29)]What a goalscoring record - looks like Broughtons......

The Yeovil fans are calling Russell Slade "a genius salesman" for getting money for him and saying he has looked completely out of his depth in League 1...........

To be fair mate take it from my own personal experience he looked out of his depth at Harlow!!! And I gotta say for someone who's game isn't to try and get in behind defenders Harrold gave me a lot of work in those nights at Harlow in terms of raising my flag.

Given that he is only 22 now he must have been a teenager then. Not really a surprise he looked out of his depth.

Maybe, just maybe, he's improved since then?

Yeah he was only 18 but I'd just like to emphasise the fact that this was HARLOW TOWN I'm talking about and if you look very poor in a league like that at 18 years old then it's not a good sign (and this was a good 5 or 6 games for me not just one).

Exactly. Harlow Town, where cultured, pass and move football gives way to kick and run (and I mean the players, not the ball). An eighteen year old is bound to thrive there.

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

Quote[/b] (TonyTheKray @ Sep. 01 2006,13:16)]I'd rather have Gray than Badbuy anyday!

I assume this would be the same Wayne Gray who scored precisely 2 goals (both penalties) between 27/9/05 and 5/5/06.....

 

[Maisie Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (TonyTheKray @ Sep. 01 2006,13:16)]

Quote[/b] (Shrimpbizkit @ Sep. 01 2006,13:12)]Yes but I imagine 95% of championship and prem players are out of our league wages wise hence why Tilly is looking at League 1 and 2. I do agree though, we lack anyone with blistering pace to unsettle a defence. Difficult to say how Wayne Gray wouldve fared in this league but I dont think he wouldve doen any worse than Paynter or Bradbury.

i agree.

Tilly was wrong to get rid of him IMHO.

I'd rather have Gray than Badbuy anyday!

So you have said.........































At least 3 times already!

 

[Smudger]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Sep. 01 2006,11:08)]

Quote[/b] (Smudger @ Sep. 01 2006,09:29)]What a goalscoring record - looks like Broughton's......

The Yeovil fans are calling Russell Slade "a genius salesman" for getting money for him and saying he has looked completely out of his depth in League 1...........

That's harsh Smudger comparing a young forward to Broughton. What has he done to deserve those comparisons?

9 goals in 30 starts for Yeovil seems respectable enough. Certainly better than Drewe's 2 in 31 for us! I expect it is comparable to Wayne Gray's record, especially if you are to take away the spot-kicks.

True, it is harsh (Broughton must be the worst comparison a striker can have) but this is a discussion forum not a personal message centre for Tilly and the players as some seem to be indicating here. It should go without saying that we wish every player in a Blues shirt all the very best but we can still question the logic of decisions made on and off the pitch...otherwise such forums as these are a waste of time. Let's hope The Ginger One proves the doubters wrong big time.

For the record Harrold has a League record of 0.15 goals per game against Broughton's 0.20 per game. They both average 0.37 per goals per game for the FA Cup. Pretty comparable really....

 

[Einstein]

Quote[/b] (Angell Delight @ Sep. 01 2006,12:09)]Yeah he was only 18 but I'd just like to emphasise the fact that this was HARLOW TOWN I'm talking about and if you look very poor in a league like that at 18 years old then it's not a good sign.

So if you are awful at 18 then you have no chance for a professional career?

Well I am pretty sure it was Ian Wright who did not start his career until well into his 20s. He obviously did not look too good when he was 18. I am sure it was Wrighty who was one of the "big name" late starters in the game there has ever been.

And no I am not comparing Harrold to Wright, just that your observation was based on a teenager and now he is a fully grown man. Just look at the players who looked amazing at 15, but never quite made it. Well perhaps Harrold is the opposite of those circumstances.

 

[Firestorm]

Les Ferdinand was another late starter

 

[Einstein]

Quote[/b] (Angell Delight @ Sep. 01 2006,10:59)]

Freddy needs someone to play off and IMHO it won't be Paynter - he has an extremely poor first touch most of the time and doesn't win a lot in the air - hardly ideal for Freddy is it!!!! People can say give Paynter a chance and yeah OK we should but as my Dad's mate's a Vale fan I've seen him 10-12 times already and thats more than enough to form an opinion on the player - and he's been exactly the same for us as he was for them so far.

Also, to add on the subject of "Harrold 18 years old not good enough to play"

I'd seen Freddy Eastwood before he moved to SUFC and do not even remember his performance so cannot have been that great!

... and on the "I've seen Paynter play 10 times already"

All I was constantly told by my WH supporting friends when they had seen him in the reserves on several times that he was "crap". They maintained he was "crap" while people were on here touting him for England after he signed.

So by saying he has been exactly the same for us as he was for Vale is rubbish as he has hardly even appeared for SUFC yet !! Football is a game of opinions, and sometimes on here there are too many opinions, which are written as fact.

If we were all given just two days in our jobs to look fantastic new employees then most of us would fail miserably. Sometimes new surroundings take time....

 

[Angell Delight]

Quote[/b] (Richard_Cadette @ Sep. 01 2006,13:05)]The thing that annoys me the most about this transfer is that it is like we have forgotten what league we are in all of a sudden. We are now in the CHAMPIONSHIP

That's been my point all thread and I fully agree.

 

[Pubey]

give the kid a chance, he doesn't come here with the best of wishes from yeovil but i remember him being lively against us last season and yeovils msg boards are mixed about him, some saying he has potential and an eye for goal. still want ricketts to get fully fit though because i really see freddy and ricketts being are 1st choice strike partnership this season

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Quote[/b] (Smudger @ Sep. 01 2006,14:03)]

Quote[/b] (Hong Kong Blue @ Sep. 01 2006,11:08)]

Quote[/b] (Smudger @ Sep. 01 2006,09:29)]What a goalscoring record - looks like Broughton's......

The Yeovil fans are calling Russell Slade "a genius salesman" for getting money for him and saying he has looked completely out of his depth in League 1...........

That's harsh Smudger comparing a young forward to Broughton. What has he done to deserve those comparisons?

9 goals in 30 starts for Yeovil seems respectable enough. Certainly better than Drewe's 2 in 31 for us! I expect it is comparable to Wayne Gray's record, especially if you are to take away the spot-kicks.

True, it is harsh (Broughton must be the worst comparison a striker can have) but this is a discussion forum not a personal message centre for Tilly and the players as some seem to be indicating here. It should go without saying that we wish every player in a Blues shirt all the very best but we can still question the logic of decisions made on and off the pitch...otherwise such forums as these are a waste of time. Let's hope The Ginger One proves the doubters wrong big time.

For the record Harrold has a League record of 0.15 goals per game against Broughton's 0.20 per game. They both average 0.37 per goals per game for the FA Cup. Pretty comparable really....

I don't mind discussing someone's strengths but comparing someone to Broughton is the equivalent of downright abuse.

I think your stats are for goals/appearance, I much prefer working on goals/start. 5 or 10 minutes here and there is hardly much of an appearance.

 

[Angell Delight]

Quote[/b] (Einstein @ Sep. 01 2006,14:24)]

Quote[/b] (Angell Delight @ Sep. 01 2006,10:59)]

Freddy needs someone to play off and IMHO it won't be Paynter - he has an extremely poor first touch most of the time and doesn't win a lot in the air - hardly ideal for Freddy is it!!!! People can say give Paynter a chance and yeah OK we should but as my Dad's mate's a Vale fan I've seen him 10-12 times already and thats more than enough to form an opinion on the player - and he's been exactly the same for us as he was for them so far.

Also, to add on the subject of "Harrold 18 years old not good enough to play"

I'd seen Freddy Eastwood before he moved to SUFC and do not even remember his performance so cannot have been that great!

... and on the "I've seen Paynter play 10 times already"

All I was constantly told by my WH supporting friends when they had seen him in the reserves on several times that he was "crap".  They maintained he was "crap" while people were on here touting him for England after he signed.

So by saying he has been exactly the same for us as he was for Vale is rubbish as he has hardly even appeared for SUFC yet !! Football is a game of opinions, and sometimes on here there are too many opinions, which are written as fact.

If we were all given just two days in our jobs to look fantastic new employees then most of us would fail miserably.  Sometimes new surroundings take time....

Re Harrold:

Eastwood is very different, before he signed he had proven in a season and a half at Grays that he could score goals (37 in his full season) and it was just a case of whether he could do it at a higher level which he proved he could. Harrold is not a goalscorer - he (unlike Freddy) couldn't even do it in L1/L2 so the chances of him doing it in the CCC are remote to say the least. Some people may say he's been signed as a target man and thats fair enough so lets disregard the goals ratio for a moment - Yeovil fans (and Brentford fans) say he's a waste of space at L1 level so again along with my own personal opinions of him which would echo that having been on the flag in 5 or 6 of his games albeit 4 years ago and the signs aren't good. Other fans reactions suggest to me that while he must have improved to have got in the League he clearly hasn't improved anywhere near enough, not for the CCC anyway.

Re Paynter:

I think I'm well within my rights to voice my opinions on him and not just for the 10-12 games I saw him play at Vale. Ten to twelve games is certainly enough to form an opinion on a player but what really backs up my point of view from where I'm standing is that Paynter for us so far in his limited games has shown exactly the same performances as I saw him in those 10-12 games for Vale, therefore I don't believe he has much else to offer than what we have seen so far.

I hope both of them prove me wrong but I honestly can't see it.