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Latest Rumours Summer Transfer Window Thread 2020

I’m sorry to disagree, but Mantom gave his all only a handful of times. Compare him to the likes of Timlin, who would always give his all. Don’t get me wrong, mantom was a good player and his ability was obvious, but if you don’t give 100%, no matter how good you are, the fans won’t like it. That’s why he was so disliked imo.

Timlin appeared to give his all. I'm sure he did give his all. But there's a common misconception that to show 'passion' you need to be constantly ranting and raving with fist in the air and flying into unwise tackles.

I loved Michael Timlin as a player, and we've missed players like that in no doubt. But it's not Sam Mantom's fault that he isn't Michael Timlin. You can be a more reserved personality and still be passionate and care about your team.

Mantom for me is certainly not one of those I'll look back on with disdain. There was a player in there somewhere but it never really happened for him - perhaps understandably when you look at the chaos off and on the pitch around him. There were very few constants during his time with Blues - managers, CM partners, forgetting all the off-field problems. He was one of those constants, but of course if you play a lot of games for an unsuccessful side you're viewed as part of the problem - best to ask Kevin Maher about that one. My bet is that Mantom was never the problem, just not herculean enough to pull the rest of the team up around him.

But it's the right decision, from a financial point of view more than anything. Good luck to him, he's a decent player and a decent pro. It just didn't work out.

Also I do find it funny because Michael Timlin got dogs abuse in his final season when played at left back. People have short memories.
 
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I’m sorry to disagree, but Mantom gave his all only a handful of times. Compare him to the likes of Timlin, who would always give his all. Don’t get me wrong, mantom was a good player and his ability was obvious, but if you don’t give 100%, no matter how good you are, the fans won’t like it. That’s why he was so disliked imo.

My abiding memory of Mantom would be during his first full season - I think it was the Charlton game - when he played whilst injured because Hyam, Yearwood and Dieng were all injured and Powell had no fit midfielders. He must have been about 40% fit at most yet lasted the 90 minutes.
 
I think also we have to remember we are far from lacking in the centre midfield department with those coming through - Philips, Gard, Hutchinson, Klass, Benton- Demetriou is probably best suited there now, Dieng will he continue as CB? and I am sure we probably would want 1/2 in- so some have to go out
 
On Hutchinson, it will be interesting to see if he stays and is given a chance. I’ve always been a fan think there is a really good player there given the chance. Always been impressed when I’ve seen him.
 
Agree but i think he is better in the foraward midfield role not in the middle of a 442
This is true but you then become a bit of a Jack Payne conundrum who needed the formation to suit.
He has the talent, what he needs is to step on and improve the defensive and positional side of his game, and fitness, so he can play in a 442 and be as effective. I might be wrong but I don’t think the concern is about his ability. Similarly Klass who technically is supposedly the best of the lot but also has to address some other areas of his game.

The both have the ability to be very good and hopefully don’t waste it.
 
This is true but you then become a bit of a Jack Payne conundrum who needed the formation to suit.
He has the talent, what he needs is to step on and improve the defensive and positional side of his game, and fitness, so he can play in a 442 and be as effective. I might be wrong but I don’t think the concern is about his ability. Similarly Klass who technically is supposedly the best of the lot but also has to address some other areas of his game.

The both have the ability to be very good and hopefully don’t waste it.

Judging by his 5k times he’s been posting on his social media his fitness is not a concern.
 
This is true but you then become a bit of a Jack Payne conundrum who needed the formation to suit.
He has the talent, what he needs is to step on and improve the defensive and positional side of his game, and fitness, so he can play in a 442 and be as effective. I might be wrong but I don’t think the concern is about his ability. Similarly Klass who technically is supposedly the best of the lot but also has to address some other areas of his game.

The both have the ability to be very good and hopefully don’t waste it.
I agree
 
On Hutchinson, it will be interesting to see if he stays and is given a chance. I’ve always been a fan think there is a really good player there given the chance. Always been impressed when I’ve seen him.
I think that will depend on whether the manager stays.
 
I think that will depend on whether the manager stays.

Yes I agree, he hasn’t appeared to be in Sol’s plans. But with a full pre season he may be able to convince Sol to play him.
 
The problem with Mantom was he was rarely 100% fit in his own mind...I was told at the end of his first season with us after CP signed him whilst injured. “He is good player if you can get him on the pitch” ( they meant mentally).

A real weak area for him was his backtracking. He covered the ground but was really poor at spotting the danger or the pass. You can flick back through some conceded goal highlights and see this The oppo will break down our right and Mantom will run 50 yds ball watching without once checking where their CMs are. Meanwhile one of them checks and finds plenty of space 25 yds out in the middle.... They have any easy pass and even time for a touch. Mantom has run past the action and normally follows up with back turning, pirouette, cowardly type block.

Wordsworth was similar but better on ball. Both of them can easily fool the stats because they show both players cover the ground.....Will Atkinson would be tight on the first place so the simple pass into a very dangerous area would not happen but the work go unnoticed. Lenny would spot the pass, be on the move and get a tackle in before the first touch.

We had conceded 85? goals with plenty of games left that’s because we were spineless in both meanings. Even as a captain he never inspired those around him standing around whilst the oppo get your own player sent off made me lose all respect for him.

Who knows what will happen in the next 12 months but no one gets promotion without a few winners in their squad and I see winners amongst our young lads....We just need the right older heads to make the most of that opportunity..... Mantom is not the man for that.
 
The problem with Mantom was he was rarely 100% fit in his own mind...I was told at the end of his first season with us after CP signed him whilst injured. “He is good player if you can get him on the pitch” ( they meant mentally).

A real weak area for him was his backtracking. He covered the ground but was really poor at spotting the danger or the pass. You can flick back through some conceded goal highlights and see this The oppo will break down our right and Mantom will run 50 yds ball watching without once checking where their CMs are. Meanwhile one of them checks and finds plenty of space 25 yds out in the middle.... They have any easy pass and even time for a touch. Mantom has run past the action and normally follows up with back turning, pirouette, cowardly type block.

Wordsworth was similar but better on ball. Both of them can easily fool the stats because they show both players cover the ground.....Will Atkinson would be tight on the first place so the simple pass into a very dangerous area would not happen but the work go unnoticed. Lenny would spot the pass, be on the move and get a tackle in before the first touch.

We had conceded 85? goals with plenty of games left that’s because we were spineless in both meanings. Even as a captain he never inspired those around him standing around whilst the oppo get your own player sent off made me lose all respect for him.

Who knows what will happen in the next 12 months but no one gets promotion without a few winners in their squad and I see winners amongst our young lads....We just need the right older heads to make the most of that opportunity..... Mantom is not the man for that.

This was exactly what I saw with Manton when observing him more closely. He pretty much epitomised the spineless nature of the squad over the last 18 months or so.
 
Chris Phillips put a squad list on twitter today, if all those sign that have been offered deals, we have a squad of 27 (Ok it included a lot of youngsters, but all with first team experience).

We need to get rid of at least half a dozen and bring in 3 or 4, as currently there is no room for manoeuvre with the new salary cap thing in place.
 
Thats
Chris Phillips put a squad list on twitter today, if all those sign that have been offered deals, we have a squad of 27 (Ok it included a lot of youngsters, but all with first team experience).

We need to get rid of at least half a dozen and bring in 3 or 4, as currently there is no room for manoeuvre with the new salary cap thing in place.
very true, but how many ar eon first team contracts (not seen the list) as i believe academy players / u23’s (or what ever they are called these days) not on pro contracts and staff are not included in that cap
 
Guessing it's perhaps not finalised (yet) but from that list, I thought Humphrys was off ? Or maybe I've misread something that was on here a couple of weeks ago.....
 
This is a very interesting article. The best I have seen discussing the wage cap at l2 level.


The big challenge is obvious- clubs have already gone through their retained lists, are letting players go, are signing or keeping players and in some cases now bringing people in. Yet the talked about wage cap does not exist- the cap is not set, transition rules are not set including when moving between divisions, who qualifies as a "senior professional" is not set and so on. Yet the EFL wants to bring in for a new 20/21 season starting Sept 12th. As always with the EFL progress is absolutely funereal, and of course clubs need to agree (been here before me thinks).

And what happens to clubs who already have a number of players way above the max squad size, and a much higher wage bill, through ongoing longer term contracts above the cap. In football you can't just cancel player contracts part way through because the EFL has changed some rules. PFA are against it and muttering about "legal issues".

The definition of "senior professional" for us will be key. It is obvious that most players who qualify and play for the U23s can't be "senior professionals". If they were with a squad of 20 you simply could not put out a first team and u23s. So most u23s you would have to assume do not count as "senior professionals". We are in a position, however, where we have a large number of u23s who also now play first team football. Most clubs at L2 level have one or two. And most of the the u23s cannot count towards a wage cap otherwise this would be a massive disincentive to have an academy and benefit those who don't have an u23s or got rid their u23s?

There again if u23s can be excluded from the squad size and cap, won't you get clubs bringing in high performing u23s to get around the cap- in which case do you get the "home grown" definition to manage- another layer of uncertainty.

The squad looks like 27 but it might be only 7/8 are falling in the senior professional definition currently and the rest will alternate between the u23s and first team- how will this be covered?? In L2 our relatively substantial investment in the academy and such a high number capable at first team level, and offered new contracts, is this a masterstroke under the proposed new rules or potentially a nightmare. This could potentially leave us far more room to bring one or two, or keep one or two, we would not otherwise afford?

Will the EFL lead or will clubs again vote purely for the definitions that will suit them individually? Or will the EFL say we have listened, can't please everyone, this is what it is vote for it?

The clock is ticking
 
Guessing it's perhaps not finalised (yet) but from that list, I thought Humphrys was off ? Or maybe I've misread something that was on here a couple of weeks ago.....
I think he'd like to go back up north and we might decide to cash in seeing as he only has a year left on his contract but as things stand he is our player
 
Guessing it's perhaps not finalised (yet) but from that list, I thought Humphrys was off ? Or maybe I've misread something that was on here a couple of weeks ago.....
He is reported to have clause that releases him from his contract if we are relegated, that isnt (as far as i understand) the same as the retained / released list as he could choose not to take that option up
 
This is a very interesting article. The best I have seen discussing the wage cap at l2 level.


The big challenge is obvious- clubs have already gone through their retained lists, are letting players go, are signing or keeping players and in some cases now bringing people in. Yet the talked about wage cap does not exist- the cap is not set, transition rules are not set including when moving between divisions, who qualifies as a "senior professional" is not set and so on. Yet the EFL wants to bring in for a new 20/21 season starting Sept 12th. As always with the EFL progress is absolutely funereal, and of course clubs need to agree (been here before me thinks).

And what happens to clubs who already have a number of players way above the max squad size, and a much higher wage bill, through ongoing longer term contracts above the cap. In football you can't just cancel player contracts part way through because the EFL has changed some rules. PFA are against it and muttering about "legal issues".

The definition of "senior professional" for us will be key. It is obvious that most players who qualify and play for the U23s can't be "senior professionals". If they were with a squad of 20 you simply could not put out a first team and u23s. So most u23s you would have to assume do not count as "senior professionals". We are in a position, however, where we have a large number of u23s who also now play first team football. Most clubs at L2 level have one or two. And most of the the u23s cannot count towards a wage cap otherwise this would be a massive disincentive to have an academy and benefit those who don't have an u23s or got rid their u23s?

There again if u23s can be excluded from the squad size and cap, won't you get clubs bringing in high performing u23s to get around the cap- in which case do you get the "home grown" definition to manage- another layer of uncertainty.

The squad looks like 27 but it might be only 7/8 are falling in the senior professional definition currently and the rest will alternate between the u23s and first team- how will this be covered?? In L2 our relatively substantial investment in the academy and such a high number capable at first team level, and offered new contracts, is this a masterstroke under the proposed new rules or potentially a nightmare. This could potentially leave us far more room to bring one or two, or keep one or two, we would not otherwise afford?

Will the EFL lead or will clubs again vote purely for the definitions that will suit them individually? Or will the EFL say we have listened, can't please everyone, this is what it is vote for it?

The clock is ticking
All good points, re the under 23’s there are a few wordings floating around some want under 23’s on pro contracts included, some dont, i think the logical answer is if they have played 30 odd games prior to the start of the season your entering they they would need to be included, otherwise they are outside

Also worth noting nothing official is in place as yet, or it wasn’t before i was furloughed.
 
All good points, re the under 23’s there are a few wordings floating around some want under 23’s on pro contracts included, some dont, i think the logical answer is if they have played 30 odd games prior to the start of the season your entering they they would need to be included, otherwise they are outside

Also worth noting nothing official is in place as yet, or it wasn’t before i was furloughed.
I guess the question is how on earth do they think they can bring in a definition on which u23s count AFTER the point where retained lists need to be announced or players either get a new contract or become out of contract? If it were the having played 30 games for example that would be very helpful to us. Most of are u23a have league 1 experience but less than 30 games, some might say a perfect scenario for us (and for that reason not for others who will want to vote/work against it)..

For sure when we we loom at the squad and where we might eventually sign people this needs factoring in- can't just look at the 20/21 squad list in isolation anymore
 
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