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Slipperduke

The Camden Cad
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
4,333
Location
North London
At opposite ends of the country, two ill-fated and short-lived eras are coming to an end. In East London, the unintentionally hilarious reign of Bjorgolfur Gudmundsson is already over. In Newcastle, Mike Ashley has desperately slapped a GBP100m price tag on the front of St James Park in the hope of attracting an escape route. It's a stark warning to anyone out there still silly enough to want to invest in an English football club.

The gold rush is over. In fact, it's been over for quite some time. When Roman Abramovich rescued Chelsea from meltdown in 2003, things were very different. Back then, Arsenal and Manchester United ruled the roost but beneath them it was wide open. In the four years preceding the Russian's arrival, Leeds, Liverpool, Chelsea and Newcastle had joined the two giants in the top four while Ipswich, Aston Villa and Blackburn all came within a couple of wins of making it themselves. In the last four years, Chelsea and Liverpool have completed an unbreakable quadropoly, a private party of wealth and glamour that, with the exception of the lasagna-addled Tottenham side of 2006, no-one has even come close to gatecrashing.

Ashley and Gudmundsson could tell you a bit about Premier League football now. They could tell you how difficult it is to attract quality players to the club if you're outside of those Champions League places. Ashley's solution was to buy cut-price chancers from the La Liga like the hopelessly inadequate Xisco. Gudmundsson's was to throw ludicrous piles of money at broken down former starlets like Kieron Dyer or Freddy Ljungberg, or to 'borrow' a couple of world class players. Neither plan was particularly successful. The more sensible solution is to be patient and slowly build a team over an extended period of time. Randy Lerner and Bill Kenwright have both opted for this strategy at Aston Villa and Everton, but it's not without its drawbacks. Villa in particular have spent heavily, but the rewards are scant. The unwanted treadmill of UEFA Cup football is only a distraction if you're trying to finish fourth. And then there's Manchester City who have so much money that they don't know what to do with it, a diagnosis proven by their purchase of Craig Bellamy. With Mark Hughes trying to build a side the old-fashioned way and CEO Gary Cook trying to push 'marquee' signings into his dressing room, we can all see how that will pan out.

If anyone is ever going to break into that top four it will be because one of the elite has imploded, but they're all operating with crazy debts precisely for that reason. They don't want to offer a glimmer of hope to anyone beneath them. It's a high-stakes game of poker up there and clubs like Everton and Villa can't even afford the ante.

In a few weeks, we'll all be reading the dim-witted platitudes of yet another new owner of Newcastle United, doubtless prophesising a swift return to the top flight and then a tilt at glory. West Ham's new chairman Andrew Bernhardt has been careful not to promise anything apart from 'sensible budgeting'. Perhaps he is the first man to take over an English club in years who actually knows how dire the situation is. Success? Glory? Champions League football? No chance.
 
I'm completely bored with the Premier League now. When I was in the UK and had Sky Sports I'd watch bits of games but very rarely a whole match but now I have to make a special effort (by staying up late) to see a game I just haven't bothered. The first match between two Premier League teams I watched this season was the FA Cup Final and even that was a fairly one-sided affair. Removed as I am slightly from the over hyping of the competition I see it for what it is, 4 rich clubs fighting it out on their own little league and the rest squabbling for scraps (Europa League places) and to avoid relegation.

The irony is that (sleep deprevation apart) it is possible to see more live EPL games here than back home. I just can't be arsed....I think it's a classic case of Emporers New Clothes and I've just realised that the FA Premier League is stark bollock naked!
 
I'm completely bored with the Premier League now. When I was in the UK and had Sky Sports I'd watch bits of games but very rarely a whole match but now I have to make a special effort (by staying up late) to see a game I just haven't bothered. The first match between two Premier League teams I watched this season was the FA Cup Final and even that was a fairly one-sided affair. Removed as I am slightly from the over hyping of the competition I see it for what it is, 4 rich clubs fighting it out on their own little league and the rest squabbling for scraps (Europa League places) and to avoid relegation.

The irony is that (sleep deprevation apart) it is possible to see more live EPL games here than back home. I just can't be arsed....I think it's a classic case of Emporers New Clothes and I've just realised that the FA Premier League is stark bollock naked!

Amen. It's what happens when business motives and self interest are allowed to override basic principles of fairness and a level playing field. Sharp practice, rather than sporting excellence, becomes the key to dominance. The whole product simply feels devalued to me.

For every Premiership match I watched this season I probably saw two La Liga games, and that's a gap that I can only see widening. Don't get me wrong, it's far from a wide open competition, but there's at least enough unpredictability to keep things interesting. The key difference is surely the superior pool of technically superb domestic talent available to Spanish clubs. Most sides have a core of Spanish talent, also lending them a far stronger sense of regional identity and allowing traditional rivalries to retain far greater meaning than a lot of ours. In some of our historic rivalries a win for a particular side will be followed inevitably by the printing of a set of commemorative t-shirts, such is its rarity, and I find that a little sad.
 
quadropoly

Hmm... mixing Latin (quad) and Greek (opoly) roots to make words is seldom (*) the way forward. Surely tetrarchy would be the better word?

:)

Matt

(*The exception is, of course, the word "television" - although George Bernard Shaw did opine that "nothing good will come of it" precisely because of its mongrel Latin/Greek derivation.)
 
I'm completely bored with the Premier League now. When I was in the UK and had Sky Sports I'd watch bits of games but very rarely a whole match but now I have to make a special effort (by staying up late) to see a game I just haven't bothered. The first match between two Premier League teams I watched this season was the FA Cup Final and even that was a fairly one-sided affair. Removed as I am slightly from the over hyping of the competition I see it for what it is, 4 rich clubs fighting it out on their own little league and the rest squabbling for scraps (Europa League places) and to avoid relegation.

The irony is that (sleep deprevation apart) it is possible to see more live EPL games here than back home. I just can't be arsed....I think it's a classic case of Emporers New Clothes and I've just realised that the FA Premier League is stark bollock naked!

You're missing the fact that the other end of the table is riveting...

Yes, the also-ran encounters between the likes of West Ham and Bolton can bore, but that's true of any league. Games including the top four are often spectacles... I personally love watching United play as, when they're ticking, it's the closest you'll get to True Football.

But the drama is all at the bottom of the table. This years relegation fight was particularly great, when going into the last day any 2 of 5 teams could've gone down... And the hysterical comedy of it all when Newcastle released they'd f*cked it up royally was great.
 
Great - so it's all about trying to see who's the three most inept out of the bottom teams in our top flight? No, sorry - the EPL is not all it's hyped to be IMO.
 
I've got a challenge for anybody who still thinks that the EPL is the most exciting, genuinely competitive league in the world. I'll name you the teams who'll make up next season's top four right now:

Arsenal
Chelsea
Liverpool
Manchester United

If anybody can do the same for any of the other "big five" leagues in Europe, then fair play to them. Until then I'll stick to my belief that the EPL has become a farce of a "competition" - a hegemony configured to protect the business interests of a select few at the expense of fundamental sporting values.

Of course the teams at the wrong end are allowed to determine their own fates. They're not the ones that draw money, are they?

As for Manure being the best footballing side in the world - well, if the CL final wasn't evidence enough of a gulf in class then there's likely nothing that I can say that's going to persuade Manure's apologists that their boys aren't the "greatest club in the whole wide world ever ever ever" (C).
 
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I've got a challenge for anybody who still thinks that the EPL is the most exciting, genuinely competitive league in the world. I'll name you the teams who'll make up next season's top four right now:

Arsenal
Chelsea
Liverpool
Manchester United

If anybody can do the same for any of the other "big five" leagues in Europe, then fair play to them. (C).

I think you could pick the top 2 in Span and the top 3 in Italy. Obviously the top 2 in Scotland which doesnt really count.

France Germany and Holland are all far weaker and have no dominant forces any more. Does this make them any better than the EPL?
 
I think you could pick the top 2 in Span and the top 3 in Italy. Obviously the top 2 in Scotland which doesnt really count.

France Germany and Holland are all far weaker and have no dominant forces any more. Does this make them any better than the EPL?

In the Spanish and Italian leagues there's at least a little uncertainty over Champions League placings. Last year Villarreal (a tiny club) succeeded in splitting the Spanish "big two", and in the previous two campaigns Sevilla and Valencia pushed them 'til the end. Genoa, Lazio and Udinese have all made the Italian Champions League placings in recent years. It's a gap that looks bridgeable, though it remains to be seen whether Barca's brilliance and Real's spending serve to change that for a while.

I can't honestly say that I see any real competition for the places in the Premiership. It hurts me because I'm passionate about this country's football, and the more apparent it becomes that, for financial rather than sporting reasons, 20 years from now the same old names will be contesting the major trophies the harder I find it to take an interest.

If I'm honest, I struggle to identify a club outside of our big 4 that I'd pay to watch. That's where La Liga excels for me - the number of strong sides in the chasing pack. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that league winning points totals are usually lower in Spain, and occasionally by a considerable margin. From watching both leagues it appears very obvious to me that their big clubs find themselves facing genuine competition on a more regular basis.
 
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Rangers
Celtic
Hearts
Aberdeen

In fact I'll go further and say: -

Dundee United
Hibs

to complete the top six.

This stifling of the top half of the table in the hugely superior and much more renowned and revered SPL dwarfs the monopoly of the top four of the lesser known Premier League.


 
Until then I'll stick to my belief that the EPL has become a farce of a "competition" - a hegemony configured to protect the business interests of a select few at the expense of fundamental sporting values.

Jesus Christ, change the record would you? The top four gain a financial advantage over the rest through the revenues of The Champions' League. But surely, that's the case throughout the UEFA Confederation? The reason it has produced a 'Big Four' in this country rather than the 'Big Two' in Spain is that all of our teams generally make it to at least the quarter finals of the tournament, thus maximizing revenues. Indeed, have we not had three of the four semi-finalists for the last three years running? That's because our league is the best in the world - one result for Barcelona over a poor Man Utd side doesn't disguise the fact that English clubs dominate Europe. And I don't think you can be certain that the top four will be unchanged this season. All of the top four have lost or are likely to lose key players and Man City and Spurs look set to join Villa and Everton as real threats. Sussex's analysis is clouded by his anti-capitalism agenda and loathing for anything that demonstrates English dominance.
 
Jesus Christ, change the record would you? The top four gain a financial advantage over the rest through the revenues of The Champions' League. But surely, that's the case throughout the UEFA Confederation? The reason it has produced a 'Big Four' in this country rather than the 'Big Two' in Spain is that all of our teams generally make it to at least the quarter finals of the tournament, thus maximizing revenues. Indeed, have we not had three of the four semi-finalists for the last three years running? That's because our league is the best in the world - one result for Barcelona over a poor Man Utd side doesn't disguise the fact that English clubs dominate Europe. And I don't think you can be certain that the top four will be unchanged this season. All of the top four have lost or are likely to lose key players and Man City and Spurs look set to join Villa and Everton as real threats. Sussex's analysis is clouded by his anti-capitalism agenda and loathing for anything that demonstrates English dominance.

I'm afraid that I don't see your basis for extrapolating the CL performances of the top four in order the judge the overall quality of the league. Would you try to gauge the strength of the SPL from the Old Firm? With gaps of 9, 11 and 8 points between fourth and fifth in the EPL over the past three years the evidence suggests to me that such an inference should definitely not be made - especially in light of our clubs' UEFA Cup performances over the same timespan. Even in the CL, Spain might not possess the same sized contingent of elite clubs who generally make the latter stages, but for all of Real's weakness of recent times Barca alone have won as many of the last five as all of our clubs put together.

The Spanish league contains enough strong clubs that CL revenue is no guarantee to clubs like Valencia or Sevilla that they will cruise to a top four finish the next season. The result is that you're left with a highly competitive second tier that keeps things interesting at the top, and can even ruffle the big two's feathers on occasion. If you think that the goal of a domestic league competition is merely to feed the highest possible standard of clubs into the CL year on year then obviously that has its drawbacks, but when it comes to keeping the domestic competition... well, a competition it's fantastic.

The only way we could possibly know for sure which league was stronger top to bottom would be to play off 1st vs 1st, 2nd vs 2nd and so on. In the absence of any possibility of that happening, I'm swayed not only by what I see with my own eyes but also by the fact that Barca consistently drop a greater number of points domestically, even though European evidence suggests that they are at least as good as anything that we have to offer.

I would be absolutely delighted to reflect at the end of the season, and admit that I was wrong after seeing one of our other sides gatecrash the party. I just don't see it happening and I can find few if any other reasons why the coming season might offer me something different that I might deem worth seeing. My interest in last season died as soon as it became apparent that Villa wouldn't last the course, whereas La Liga kept me watching until the very end.

I would love to be able to say, hand on heart, that I think the Premiership is the best in the world, but I'd be lying if I did. As things stand I'm worried that the "best in the world" hype may be leading to a complacency that is hardly helpful. I still care enough about it to say when I think it's going wrong, and if / when it's a case of same old, same old this season that'll be one of those moments.
 
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