What really happened in Vegas

[rigsby]

The official story has been changed several times and is still does not add up. Many of you will have been to Vegas and know how your are watched night and day.

So to follow on from a debate started on the Trump thread........Here goes for starters

Why haven't we seen any CCTV of Paddock on floor 32, guns being carried up or the shoot out with the security guard. Who it is claimed was hit in the thigh but skipped off to Mexico for an 11 day break before coming back for medical treatment.

If its true why use crisis actors and fake hospital scenes. Look on Youtube at the guy sitting up in bed with 3 bullets in his chest, or the Kurt Cobain look alike claiming he was shot in the head are 2 of my favourites. Anybody without any medical or military knowledge can see these are fakes......But why.

The Official figures are 60 dead 534 injured but 526 of them released before 48 hours....mmm So a mad man randomly shooting into a crowd kills 60 but only seriously wound 8 people. For example a friend of a friend who was shot in the leg in Afghanistan need 13 operations in total. Yes not all at once but he certainly couldn't have walked out the door in the first 48 hours.

There are dozens of the standard 'hero' stories we get fed after each of these events. I have seen the clips of the white pick up truck pulling up to the EMT's and guess what there is virtually no blood on the floor of the truck. Just to remind people a unlike a hand gun a high powered round is designed to tumble when it hits you to tear and shred your body. Every beat of your heart would pump out a squirt of blood. You would be in sever shock and look dead on arrival even from survivable wounds.

Another fraud is the off duty out of town Firefighter, we know he is because he has a hi vis vest with fire on it, like you do at a concert. He claims he 'pronounced' at least 25 people dead. Well families should take out a law suit because no firefighter can legally pronounce anyone dead. If he checked that amount of people where is all the blood over his clothes. I have had to send my fire gear for specialist cleaning from just one casualty.

The absolute proof for me is that it is impossible to fire an assault weapon on automatic and hit the same target at 50 yds.....So how did he hit the same people at a distance of 400yds. Like the guy hit 3 times in the chest or the woman who claims she was hit 5 times in the legs.

Not even the world champion rifle shooter could do that......Look on you tube

By the way I have spoke to a relative (ex sniper) and a friend (ex Marine now works in security) who know their guns and some of the story they find laughable.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Looking forward to see how this one develops.

 

[rigsby]

Looking forward to see how this one develops.

Don't worry I expect the usual stuff from the usual people......But what about you what's your opinion?

 

[Firestorm]

one question
Why fake it ?

 

[rigsby]

one question
Why fake it ?

I haven't said its a total fake....Or that Paddock is not involved in some way. Just the story we are being told isn't true. Yes we know JFK was shot n Dallas but clearly by more than one different shooter.

There is a good vid by a forensic sound expert who says there are clearly two guns being fired on automatic one from around 400yds (possibly paddock) and one from 250yds.

In the first few hours many of the eye witnesses who fled the concert said there was more than one shooter including a man dressed as a cop/security with a hand gun....might explain the survivable 3 shots in the same chest

Why don't we ever see them interviewed on the main channels......Because like 9/11 if you stray from the 'official' narrative you are silenced in the corporate media....Including the BBC.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Don't worry I expect the usual stuff from the usual people......But what about you what's your opinion?

You'll have to forgive me, but my opinion on this incident doesn't really extend much further than: "Yeah, probably shouldn't have automatic rifles on general sale to be perfectly honest".

 

[rigsby]

You'll have to forgive me, but my opinion on this incident doesn't really extend much further than: "Yeah, probably shouldn't have automatic rifles on general sale to be perfectly honest".

I doubt anyone in Britain would vote for such a thing but worth remembering over 90% of murders by gun in the US are by people with illegally held guns.

So even if they had a total ban I cant see the figures dropping that much because even if they confiscated your legal gun it wouldn't be hard to get hold of an illegal one if you had murder in mind.

 

[EastStandBlue]

I doubt anyone in Britain would vote for such a thing but worth remembering over 90% of murders by gun in the US are by people with illegally held guns.

So even if they had a total ban I cant see the figures dropping that much because even if they confiscated your legal gun it wouldn't be hard to get hold of an illegal one if you had murder in mind.

It'd be much harder to get hold of ~1,500 rounds though.

 

[rigsby]

It'd be much harder to get hold of ~1,500 rounds though.

Depends who is firing the 1,500 rounds.....Couldn't have just been Paddock, which means it wasn't the random act of a mad man.

 

[Pubey]

Depends who is firing the 1,500 rounds.....Couldn't have just been Paddock, which means it wasn't the random act of a mad man.

why?........

 

[rigsby]

why?........

To many head shots from 400yds. There is very good reason why soldiers don't use an assault weapon on automatic, they are totally inaccurate in that mode.....Like I say go on YouTube and see for yourself

With your background perhaps you could explain to us why you wouldn't have 60 dead and just 8 seriously wounded with no further deaths in hospital if you randomly fired into a crowd lying down on a football field.

 

[MK Shrimper]

More to the point, why would the US kill it's own citizens? What exactly do they gain?

Paddock was an old white guy, with no links to Islam. The US Government (or FBI/CIA) have nothing to gain from staging this.

 

[rigsby]

More to the point, why would the US kill it's own citizens? What exactly do they gain?

Paddock was an old white guy, with no links to Islam. The US Government (or FBI/CIA) have nothing to gain from staging this.

Well we could all have a guess but that's not the point. Although they did try the Islam link for a few days.

If you find somebody lying face down in the billiard room with a dagger in the back and someone says its an accident.....You don't have to know who or why or even when, just start asking questions and look around at the likes of the Reverend Green.....Not Miss Scarlet because I always fancied her.

 

[GBJ]

The official story has been changed several times and is still does not add up. Many of you will have been to Vegas and know how your are watched night and day.

So to follow on from a debate started on the Trump thread........Here goes for starters

Why haven't we seen any CCTV of Paddock on floor 32, guns being carried up or the shoot out with the security guard. Who it is claimed was hit in the thigh but skipped off to Mexico for an 11 day break before coming back for medical treatment.

Different states have different procedures. I'm not entirely sure about Nevada's, although from memory they don't release images or footage of crimes, until a case has been closed. That cold be the case here, although I accept I'm not up with Nevada statutes, so I can't say for certain.

I have seen seen various things about Campos, but nothing substantial to prove he is anything other than what the story says. The only possible claim I could believe, is that he doesn't have a green card. There has always been plenty of rumours about MGM cutting costs, by hiring illegals, especially over the last few years.

If its true why use crisis actors and fake hospital scenes. Look on Youtube at the guy sitting up in bed with 3 bullets in his chest, or the Kurt Cobain look alike claiming he was shot in the head are 2 of my favourites. Anybody without any medical or military knowledge can see these are fakes......But why.

Is there any proof that these people are actors, or the hospital scenes are fake? Had anyone slipped up, or had there been a leak? Is there any discernible proof to suggest it? Otherwise, it's pure conjecture.

See, the obvious issue with the crisis actor theory is this... On the night of the shooting, Las Vegas & Henderson hospitals would have been fairly busy. So even if this shooting wasn't real, they'd have still been full of Doctors, nurses, receptionists, janitors, existing patients, A&E patients, EMT's, police. You're talking about thousands of people either inside or in the vicinity of these hospitals. They would have seen the injured people. Or, if it was a fake, they would have seen the lack of injured people. And I don't believe for one second that thousands of people seeing the same thing, or seeing a lack of the same thing, would be able to keep quiet about it. Someone, somewhere would have mentioned this fact.

If I worked at Basildon hospital for example, and the news was reporting a mass terror attack in Basildon, with a similar injury count to Vegas, I would be in the best position to see it with my own eyes. Because I'd either see multiple injuries, consistent with the reported incident, or I wouldn't see anything of the sort. The powers that be, couldn't fake that, nor could they stop a couple of thousand people from mentioning it. And to add to that, I've seen no testimony or claim from a single person who was at one of the hospitals on that night, claiming they didn't see any injured people. On the contrary, there are statements & stories from the people inside the hospital, who claimed they did see everything that was being reported.

The Official figures are 60 dead 534 injured but 526 of them released before 48 hours....mmm So a mad man randomly shooting into a crowd kills 60 but only seriously wound 8 people. For example a friend of a friend who was shot in the leg in Afghanistan need 13 operations in total. Yes not all at once but he certainly couldn't have walked out the door in the first 48 hours.

A great number of those injuries, would have been people getting hurt in the stampede, trying to flee the place. We're talking minor injuries, such as a grazed arms or twisted ankles or something trivial like that. However, in the panic, it's easy to understand why someone would want a minor injury checked out, incase it was anything more serious. If I had a nasty looking cut on my arm, I'd want to make sure it wasn't from any shrapnel.

Is is there any evidence that people claimed to be injured, but truly wasn't? Is there any evidence that the government simply made up the numbers?

What was the total number of people who actually caught a bullet?

There are dozens of the standard 'hero' stories we get fed after each of these events. I have seen the clips of the white pick up truck pulling up to the EMT's and guess what there is virtually no blood on the floor of the truck. Just to remind people a unlike a hand gun a high powered round is designed tumble when it hits you to tear and shred your body. Every beat of your heart would pump out a squirt of blood. You would be in sever shock and look dead on arrival even from survivable wounds.

A lack of blood in one shaky, glancing video, doesn't prove there was no blood at all. I've seen video footage of the guy running through the field, checking the dead for vital signs. Plenty of blood. I've also seen the images of the dead, with pools of blood around them. Conspiracy theorists have become experts at taking a still image, and highlighting things to prove their point. But the reality is, they are getting a split second glimpse of the situation, and applying the logic that because they haven't seen, what they're expecting to see, then it's not real.

Bullets aren't designed to tumble. They're designed to travel true & efficiently. It's the exact reason why assault rifle ammo is shaped into a point, as it's designed to travel as straight & aerodynamically as possible, over long distances. A tumbling bullet would give unpredictable, varying results, which wouldn't be much use in a fire fight. They can however, be altered, to give their flight path some movement, although the term tumbling is a myth, which was born in Vietnam. That info is straight from an ex-military man, who now works as a Marshall at one of Vegas' biggest & most popular gun ranges.

Another fraud is the off duty out of town Firefighter, we know he is because he has a hi vis vest with fire on it, like you do at a concert. He claims he 'pronounced' at least 25 people dead. Well families should take out a law suit because no firefighter can legally pronounce anyone dead. If he checked that amount of people where is all the blood over his clothes. I have had to send my fire gear for specialist cleaning from just one casualty.

I haven't seen it, but on the face of it it seems like an over-exaggeration from the guy in the video, which Americans are very capable of doing.

The absolute proof for me is that it is impossible to fire an assault weapon on automatic and hit the same target at 50 yds.....So how did he hit the same people at a distance of 400yds. Like the guy hit 3 times in the chest or the woman who claims she was hit 5 times in the legs.

Not even the world champion rifle shooter could do that......Look on you tube

By the way I have spoke to a relative (ex sniper) and a friend (ex Marine now works in security) who know their guns and some of the story they find laughable.

Err, hate to break it to you mate, but I've hit the same (moving) target from 50-yards with relative ease, and my experience with automatic rifles isn't exactly vast :winking:

So, pin your colours to the wall mate, what do you think happened? Did people really die, or was it all crisis actors? Was Paddock the shooter? Or was he a patsy? If it was all fake, Why did the government carry it out? What was their purpose?

 

[Pubey]

To many head shots from 400yds. There is very good reason why soldiers don't use an assault weapon on automatic, they are totally inaccurate in that mode.....Like I say go on YouTube and see for yourself

With your background perhaps you could explain to us why you wouldn't have 60 dead and just 8 seriously wounded with no further deaths in hospital if you randomly fired into a crowd lying down on a football field.

Firstly I'm not going to start googling around while at work, if you want to 'prove' a conspiracy theory then provide some evidence. I don't know how many headshot fatalities there apparently were - so please provide some evidence, and then provide some evidence that those numbers aren't plausible. He fired something like 1,100 rounds into a crowd - it seems plausible to me that some would be headshots.

Also, I'm not sure where your figure of just 8 seriously wounded has come from. Please provide some evidence. You say that all but 8 were 'released' within 48 hours. This article suggests that over 80 were still in hospital after 5 days:
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/89-still-hospitalized-after-las-vegas-strip-shooting/

As the article shows, it's difficult to get total numbers because of the fragmented US health system, and so journalists basically have to phone up and ask each provider/hospital. Also there is a fragmented relationship between emergency care and transfer into long-term/inpatient care and that will involve releasing/discharging patients, and also the general issue about how the local emergency centres will have been overwhelmed due to the mass shooting and many patients will have been transferred around.

 

[GBJ]

There is a good vid by a forensic sound expert who says there are clearly two guns being fired on automatic one from around 400yds (possibly paddock) and one from 250yds.

In the first few hours many of the eye witnesses who fled the concert said there was more than one shooter including a man dressed as a cop/security with a hand gun....might explain the survivable 3 shots in the same chest

As with every atrocity, the immediate "facts" don't always turn out to be truth. An eye witness may believe they're hearing two guns, but during the melee, they won't take into account the fact that the surrounding hotels stand at about 500 feet tall, around 200 yards apart and are curved in design, making them the perfect echo chamber.

And I'm dubious of the sound expert. If it's the same one I've seen, then it's dubious at best & deceitful at worst. Especially taking into consideration, that the "expert" was analysing a recording of a sound, which was recorded on a mobile phone. A mobile phone is incapable of picking up direction of sound, (I.e. It can't Differentiate noise coming from the left to noise coming from the right) and therefore could never establish any meaningful distances.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Well we could all have a guess but that's not the point.

I'm sorry but that is the very crux of the point. If you're going to elaborate lengths to stage an event where scores of people end up being slaughtered then there should be an end game as there is in others such as 9/11, the moon landings, death of Diana etc.

 

[Ricky Otto]

If its true why use crisis actors and fake hospital scenes. Look on Youtube at the guy sitting up in bed with 3 bullets in his chest, or the Kurt Cobain look alike claiming he was shot in the head are 2 of my favourites. Anybody without any medical or military knowledge can see these are fakes......But why.

.

Was it Courtney?

While we are on conspiracy theories :hilarious:

 

[rigsby]

Different states have different procedures. I'm not entirely sure about Nevada's, although from memory they don't release images or footage of crimes, until a case has been closed. That cold be the case here, although I accept I'm not up with Nevada statutes, so I can't say for certain.

I have seen seen various things about Campos, but nothing substantial to prove he is anything other than what the story says. The only possible claim I could believe, is that he doesn't have a green card. There has always been plenty of rumours about MGM cutting costs, by hiring illegals, especially over the last few years.



Is there any proof that these people are actors, or the hospital scenes are fake? Had anyone slipped up, or had there been a leak? Is there any discernible proof to suggest it? Otherwise, it's pure conjecture.

See, the obvious issue with the crisis actor theory is this... On the night of the shooting, Las Vegas & Henderson hospitals would have been fairly busy. So even if this shooting wasn't real, they'd have still been full of Doctors, nurses, receptionists, janitors, existing patients, A&E patients, EMT's, police. You're talking about thousands of people either inside or in the vicinity of these hospitals. They would have seen the injured people. Or, if it was a fake, they would have seen the lack of injured people. And I don't believe for one second that thousands of people seeing the same thing, or seeing a lack of the same thing, would be able to keep quiet about it. Someone, somewhere would have mentioned this fact.

If I worked at Basildon hospital for example, and the news was reporting a mass terror attack in Basildon, with a similar injury count to Vegas, I would be in the best position to see it with my own eyes. Because I'd either see multiple injuries, consistent with the reported incident, or I wouldn't see anything of the sort. The powers that be, couldn't fake that, nor could they stop a couple of thousand people from mentioning it. And to add to that, I've seen no testimony or claim from a single person who was at one of the hospitals on that night, claiming they didn't see any injured people. On the contrary, there are statements & stories from the people inside the hospital, who claimed they did see everything that was being reported.




A great number of those injuries, would have been people getting hurt in the stampede, trying to flee the place. We're talking minor injuries, such as a grazed arms or twisted ankles or something trivial like that. However, in the panic, it's easy to understand why someone would want a minor injury checked out, incase it was anything more serious. If I had a nasty looking cut on my arm, I'd want to make sure it wasn't from any shrapnel.

Is is there any evidence that people claimed to be injured, but truly wasn't? Is there any evidence that the government simply made up the numbers?

What was the total number of people who actually caught a bullet?



A lack of blood in one shaky, glancing video, doesn't prove there was no blood at all. I've seen video footage of the guy running through the field, checking the dead for vital signs. Plenty of blood. I've also seen the images of the dead, with pools of blood around them. Conspiracy theorists have become experts at taking a still image, and highlighting things to prove their point. But the reality is, they are getting a split second glimpse of the situation, and applying the logic that because they haven't seen, what they're expecting to see, then it's not real.

Bullets aren't designed to tumble. They're designed to travel true & efficiently. They can however, be altered, to give their flight path some movement, although the term tumbling is a myth, which was born in Vietnam. That info is straight from an ex-military man, who now works as a Marshall at one of Vegas' biggest & most popular gun ranges.



I haven't seen it, but on the face of it it seems like an over-exaggeration from the guy in the video, which Americans are very capable of doing.



Err, hate to break it to you mate, but I've hit the same (moving) target from 50-yards with relative ease, and my experience with automatic rifles isn't exactly vast :winking:

So, pin your colours to the wall mate, what do you think happened? Did people really die, or was it all crisis actors? Was Paddock the shooter? Or was he a patsy? If it was all fake, Why did the government carry it out? What was their purpose?

I didn't mean the bullet 'tumbles' in flight I meant how it behaves on impact and going through a body so perhaps I used the wrong term.

There are plenty of fakes in the hospital interviews and green screen interviews.....You only have to look on YouTube

People act different to a target but what gun was you firing and how many bullets did it take to hit said target at 50yds.

 

[Firestorm]

I am struggling with this.

Lots of thought and facts being put into what doesn't stack up but no consideration given to why anyone would want to organise the killing in the first place.

Why would someone want to stage this, what benefits are there to be gained for an organisation to do it and not claim responsibility ?