Just got back...

[palexander]

Oh my, it is going to be a long year.

Firstly, this post is going to be constructive. I am a supporter of over 20 years, go home and away as much as I can from my Lincolnshire home and have what I consider a very good knowledge of football.

Do not accuse me of 'not getting behind the team' or any of that rubbish - I chant and shout support to the players - including encouraging players like Paynter and JCR when they are getting stick.

If you want to argue any of these points, then please respond with reasonable arguments... thanks!

First point - player for player, I'm not sure we have the quality to survive at the moment. Ricketts has showed in 2 20 minute cameos that the level of not only skill, but footballing intelligence needed for this level may be beyond 95% of the side - that said, I hope this will improve over the season with experience.

Secondly, Tilly's team selection today was wrong. Paynter, though still not being anywhere near effective, had a 'better' game Sunday and would in that much be said to be improving. Then he gets dropped. Why stick with him through much worse performances then drop him?

Hooper and Eastwood are too similar and gave us no base to build from today. It was EASY for Johnson and Moore and I doubt they broke sweat.

I'm not saying Paynter would have been the answer today, I think we needed to be cuter with our tactics and approach play.

Also, throwing Hooper into that sort of game and atmosphere was a bit odd - its a long way from 200 people at Roots Hall.

Thirdly, up against Steve Howard, playing Clarke in such poor form, coupled with his and Barretts lack of height is suicide. Sodje needs to be in the side immediately - I'm not a Sodje 'fan-boy' by any means, but its quite obvious that Clarke is struggling and we are conceeding goals left right and centre from set-play crosses.

Fourth, why bring Gutts back into the side. This is very 'un-Tilson' like. JCR is an excellent worker away from home and whilst I can see what Tilly was trying to do, he did say in the week that Guttridge would have to earn his place back in the side - which I doubt 90 mins of reserve team football has done.

The whole selection today was extremely odd and I hope its not the first signs of Tilly panicking or bowing to fan-pressure - neither of which he has done before.

We need to improve and quickly. The service into the front men is shocking, the support from midfield is non-existant and organisation at the back is at best sloppy.

No doubt there will also be calls for Collis to come in for Flavs - and I can see that point of view too, but at least Flahavan has proved himself over the years and I doubt a few wobbles will dent his confidence.

All in all, another poor display where we offered nothing. The oppositon were smarter, quicker and a better quality of player.

On the bright side, I think I can see an improvement when Ricketts is starting alongside Eastwood and some of our important players get some sort of form back. Confidence as got to start from the back, so if Tilly makes no other changes than Sodje (or even Prior) for Clarke then that will be a start.

 

[Pubey]

great post mate, i really agree with what you have said... however in reply i really doubt that tilly has bowed to fan pressure, maybe paynter or jcr tweeked something and they didnt want to start them... i dunno there could be lots of reasons into why they didnt play. as i wrote in another thread though i was very suprised to see that they had both been dropped

also a good point about ricketts, his excellent vision and footballing brain really shows up the lack of creativity and vision in the rest of the team

 

[palexander]

Quote[/b] (jontosh2001 @ Sep. 30 2006,19:41)]great post mate, i really agree with what you have said... however in reply i really doubt that tilly has bowed to fan pressure, maybe paynter or jcr tweeked something and they didnt want to start them... i dunno there could be lots of reasons into why they didnt play. as i wrote in another thread though i was very suprised to see that they had both been dropped

also a good point about ricketts, his excellent vision and footballing brain really shows up the lack of creativity and vision in the rest of the team

Yep, we discussed on the way home whether there were injury doubts, or behind the scenes problems, but both JCR and Paynter looked fine warming up...

I dont think Tilly has (or would) bow to pressure from the fans and maybe took Billy out of the firing line after the terrible reaction from our 'fans' on Sunday, but I meant it could appear to be that.

 

[Pubey]

cheers, its just strange how after a fairly good game on sunday (by the teams standards on the day), that he was dropped in a game where he could have proved a point. at least we have 2 weeks now to try and sort the team out, it seems like confidence is low, and hopefully there will be a reaction from the team against cov (not least cos i have some cov supporting mates coming down and watching the game, had enough of their "freddy who?" comments!)

 

[palexander]

No probs - thats why I pointed out too that considering his improved performance Sunday, why drop him now?!

 

[blue sky]

Agree with pboreham to a large extent. Very few players came out of today with much credit IMO (Hammell, Gower were about the only 2 for me, ad Ricketts when he came on).
Francis had a shocker, seemed to be out of sorts early-on and was at fault for the first goal and probably the second too. Piece of advice to him - ditch the stupid blue boots son!
Clarke was poor again, agree with the call for Sodje to come in. Clarke & Barrett seemed to be arguimg a lot.
Once again woeful defending at set-pieces for the second. We really have to sot that out NOW!
Why was Hunt played out of position at right-midfield when he looked better in recent games in centre-mid? He looked like a fish out of water. Not sure Gutts or Maher got a grip on midfield.
Playing 2 smaller strikers against their 2 giant centre-backs was a mistake. Ricketts gave the pair of them more trouble in 20 minutes than they had the rest of the game. We should of started with a big striker (either Paynter or Ricketts).

There seemed to be an inevitability about todays result as soon as the first goal went in, you could sense it in the crowd and we didnt sing up the way we did at West Brom. heads dropped on the pitch too and there was a distinct lack of fight or passion out there today.
My biggest concern is a losing mentality is starting to take hold - heads dropped after the first and players were arguing with each other after the second. The spirit of last year seems to be missing and I think its up to Tilly to talk to the senior pro's (Barrett, Maher, Prior, ?) to try and address this and sort out how we go forward before todays result becomes the norm.
I left the stadium feeling very deflated.

 

[Hooly]

Good post as usual Paul.  I wasn't there today, so only heard the radio commentary & can rely on texts from friends.  The worrying thing from the texts I got from fans of 15-20+ years is they were saying there appeared to be a lack of passion.  They've seen the bad times as well.

If the reason he took Billy out of the firing line was fans pressure, which I highly doubt as much as you, why do it for an away game where the support is always much better.  If it's an admission that Paynter isn't up to this level, fair enough but drop him because of the fans, I don't think so.

 

[Clarky_Blues]

Quote[/b] (pboreham @ Sep. 30 2006,19:05)]Oh my, it is going to be a long year.

Firstly, this post is going to be constructive. I am a supporter of over 20 years, go home and away as much as I can from my Lincolnshire home and have what I consider a very good knowledge of football.

Do not accuse me of 'not getting behind the team' or any of that rubbish - I chant and shout support to the players - including encouraging players like Paynter and JCR when they are getting stick.

If you want to argue any of these points, then please respond with reasonable arguments... thanks!

First point - player for player, I'm not sure we have the quality to survive at the moment. Ricketts has showed in 2 20 minute cameos that the level of not only skill, but footballing intelligence needed for this level may be beyond 95% of the side - that said, I hope this will improve over the season with experience.

Secondly, Tilly's team selection today was wrong. Paynter, though still not being anywhere near effective, had a 'better' game Sunday and would in that much be said to be improving. Then he gets dropped. Why stick with him through much worse performances then drop him?

Hooper and Eastwood are too similar and gave us no base to build from today. It was EASY for Johnson and Moore and I doubt they broke sweat.

I'm not saying Paynter would have been the answer today, I think we needed to be cuter with our tactics and approach play.

Also, throwing Hooper into that sort of game and atmosphere was a bit odd - its a long way from 200 people at Roots Hall.

Thirdly, up against Steve Howard, playing Clarke in such poor form, coupled with his and Barretts lack of height is suicide. Sodje needs to be in the side immediately - I'm not a Sodje 'fan-boy' by any means, but its quite obvious that Clarke is struggling and we are conceeding goals left right and centre from set-play crosses.

Fourth, why bring Gutts back into the side. This is very 'un-Tilson' like. JCR is an excellent worker away from home and whilst I can see what Tilly was trying to do, he did say in the week that Guttridge would have to earn his place back in the side - which I doubt 90 mins of reserve team football has done.

The whole selection today was extremely odd and I hope its not the first signs of Tilly panicking or bowing to fan-pressure - neither of which he has done before.

We need to improve and quickly. The service into the front men is shocking, the support from midfield is non-existant and organisation at the back is at best sloppy.

No doubt there will also be calls for Collis to come in for Flavs - and I can see that point of view too, but at least Flahavan has proved himself over the years and I doubt a few wobbles will dent his confidence.

All in all, another poor display where we offered nothing. The oppositon were smarter, quicker and a better quality of player.

On the bright side, I think I can see an improvement when Ricketts is starting alongside Eastwood and some of our important players get some sort of form back. Confidence as got to start from the back, so if Tilly makes no other changes than Sodje (or even Prior) for Clarke then that will be a start.

I cannot disagree with your comments and it has saved me typing more or less the same after getting back from Derby!

 

[Suffolk Shrimper In Dorset]

yep, agree, Clarke poor again, Francis was worse, and this then fed through to the rest of the team.

Both players must be dropped and we have appropriate relacements in Sodje and Hunt with JCR coming back into the starting line up. Or if Tilly feels that JCR isn't up to the mark at the mo (which I would't argue with then keep Hunt in the middle (or Bradbury if fit) and give the Cheese a go.

I do not subscibe to the idea that if you drop a player in poor form then it wrecks their confidence - they are adults and have to accept it and earn their place back - with our small squad their chance will come again. And what of the confidence of the players left out if those playing poorly still get in?

Up front, Harrold has to be given his chance when fit to work with Freddie, then sub them both after 65 mins if all not going well for Hooper and Ricketts. Freddie should not be beyond substitution (as it seems Maher is) and although service to him has been poor quite frankly at times today I thought he looked like he was giving up. OK things were not going well, but with no football for two weeks the least I wou;d expect would be 100% effort for 90 mins from everyone.

Not a good day on the pitch today.

But we can certainly still cope at this level with a few adjustments to cope with form dips and putting in the effort.

 

[Welly7]

Quote[/b] ]pboreham Posted on Sep. 30 2006,19:05
The whole selection today was extremely odd and I hope its not the first signs of Tilly panicking or bowing to fan-pressure - neither of which he has done before.

I think the inclusion of Hooper was a surprise, even given his good performances in the week. To play a young boy up front against Moore and Johnson away at Derby is asking an awful lot. Hoops didn't perform and therefore the selection didn't pay off.

 

[shrimper4life]

One of the reasons why francis was so poor was cos he didnt have any protection from the right. Hunt was drifting infield which left francis alone to deal with 2 Derby players. Another reason why i feel we need JCR in the squad

 

[Aberdeen Shrimper]

Quote[/b] (pboreham @ Sep. 30 2006,19:05)]Oh my, it is going to be a long year.

Firstly, this post is going to be constructive. I am a supporter of over 20 years, go home and away as much as I can from my Lincolnshire home and have what I consider a very good knowledge of football.

Do not accuse me of 'not getting behind the team' or any of that rubbish - I chant and shout support to the players - including encouraging players like Paynter and JCR when they are getting stick.

If you want to argue any of these points, then please respond with reasonable arguments... thanks!

First point - player for player, I'm not sure we have the quality to survive at the moment. Ricketts has showed in 2 20 minute cameos that the level of not only skill, but footballing intelligence needed for this level may be beyond 95% of the side - that said, I hope this will improve over the season with experience.

Secondly, Tilly's team selection today was wrong. Paynter, though still not being anywhere near effective, had a 'better' game Sunday and would in that much be said to be improving. Then he gets dropped. Why stick with him through much worse performances then drop him?

Hooper and Eastwood are too similar and gave us no base to build from today. It was EASY for Johnson and Moore and I doubt they broke sweat.

I'm not saying Paynter would have been the answer today, I think we needed to be cuter with our tactics and approach play.

Also, throwing Hooper into that sort of game and atmosphere was a bit odd - its a long way from 200 people at Roots Hall.

Thirdly, up against Steve Howard, playing Clarke in such poor form, coupled with his and Barretts lack of height is suicide. Sodje needs to be in the side immediately - I'm not a Sodje 'fan-boy' by any means, but its quite obvious that Clarke is struggling and we are conceeding goals left right and centre from set-play crosses.

Fourth, why bring Gutts back into the side. This is very 'un-Tilson' like. JCR is an excellent worker away from home and whilst I can see what Tilly was trying to do, he did say in the week that Guttridge would have to earn his place back in the side - which I doubt 90 mins of reserve team football has done.

The whole selection today was extremely odd and I hope its not the first signs of Tilly panicking or bowing to fan-pressure - neither of which he has done before.

We need to improve and quickly. The service into the front men is shocking, the support from midfield is non-existant and organisation at the back is at best sloppy.

No doubt there will also be calls for Collis to come in for Flavs - and I can see that point of view too, but at least Flahavan has proved himself over the years and I doubt a few wobbles will dent his confidence.

All in all, another poor display where we offered nothing. The oppositon were smarter, quicker and a better quality of player.

On the bright side, I think I can see an improvement when Ricketts is starting alongside Eastwood and some of our important players get some sort of form back. Confidence as got to start from the back, so if Tilly makes no other changes than Sodje (or even Prior) for Clarke then that will be a start.

Please.............. Your first paragraph made me want to puke, we dont give a sh!t how long you have been a supporter, or were you live, just talk some sense please?

??

Yawn Yawn Ywan

 

[The Fitter]

Quote[/b] (Aberdeen Shrimper @ Oct. 01 2006,00:03)]Please.............. Your first paragraph made me want to puke, we dont give a sh!t how long you have been a supporter, or were you live, just talk some sense please?

??

Yawn Yawn Ywan

Bit harsh Aberdeen Shrimper me thinks  

 

[The Fitter]

Quote[/b] (The Fitter @ Oct. 01 2006,06:41)]

Quote[/b] (Aberdeen Shrimper @ Oct. 01 2006,00:03)]Please.............. Your first paragraph made me want to puke, we dont give a sh!t how long you have been a supporter, or were you live, just talk some sense please?

??

Yawn Yawn Ywan

Bit harsh Aberdeen Shrimper me thinks  

Err, just been reading the other threads and now I understand.
I think Aberdeen shrimper needs a lie down and a cuddle.

 

[wiggy]

Quote[/b] (pboreham @ Sep. 30 2006,19:05)]Oh my, it is going to be a long year.

Firstly, this post is going to be constructive. I am a supporter of over 20 years, go home and away as much as I can from my Lincolnshire home and have what I consider a very good knowledge of football.

Do not accuse me of 'not getting behind the team' or any of that rubbish - I chant and shout support to the players - including encouraging players like Paynter and JCR when they are getting stick.

If you want to argue any of these points, then please respond with reasonable arguments... thanks!

First point - player for player, I'm not sure we have the quality to survive at the moment. Ricketts has showed in 2 20 minute cameos that the level of not only skill, but footballing intelligence needed for this level may be beyond 95% of the side - that said, I hope this will improve over the season with experience.

Secondly, Tilly's team selection today was wrong. Paynter, though still not being anywhere near effective, had a 'better' game Sunday and would in that much be said to be improving. Then he gets dropped. Why stick with him through much worse performances then drop him?

Hooper and Eastwood are too similar and gave us no base to build from today. It was EASY for Johnson and Moore and I doubt they broke sweat.

I'm not saying Paynter would have been the answer today, I think we needed to be cuter with our tactics and approach play.

Also, throwing Hooper into that sort of game and atmosphere was a bit odd - its a long way from 200 people at Roots Hall.

Thirdly, up against Steve Howard, playing Clarke in such poor form, coupled with his and Barretts lack of height is suicide. Sodje needs to be in the side immediately - I'm not a Sodje 'fan-boy' by any means, but its quite obvious that Clarke is struggling and we are conceeding goals left right and centre from set-play crosses.

Fourth, why bring Gutts back into the side. This is very 'un-Tilson' like. JCR is an excellent worker away from home and whilst I can see what Tilly was trying to do, he did say in the week that Guttridge would have to earn his place back in the side - which I doubt 90 mins of reserve team football has done.

The whole selection today was extremely odd and I hope its not the first signs of Tilly panicking or bowing to fan-pressure - neither of which he has done before.

We need to improve and quickly. The service into the front men is shocking, the support from midfield is non-existant and organisation at the back is at best sloppy.

No doubt there will also be calls for Collis to come in for Flavs - and I can see that point of view too, but at least Flahavan has proved himself over the years and I doubt a few wobbles will dent his confidence.

All in all, another poor display where we offered nothing. The oppositon were smarter, quicker and a better quality of player.

On the bright side, I think I can see an improvement when Ricketts is starting alongside Eastwood and some of our important players get some sort of form back. Confidence as got to start from the back, so if Tilly makes no other changes than Sodje (or even Prior) for Clarke then that will be a start.

I would vote this poster for manager as he is spot on with what he says. The root of all our problems is no.1 Peter Clarke, not probably, definately the worst defender i have ever seen, goals come through him EVERY match. No.2, the midfield, Gutts has just not got it and i doubt he ever did, Maher and Hunt must be the most negative midfield in all 4 divisions and if you aint got a supply line then how the hell are you meant to score? I've said it before, Rooney and Owen would struggle to score in our team. If Tilson doesn't address this major problem then there is absolutely no hope!

 

[palexander]

Quote[/b] (Aberdeen Shrimper @ Oct. 01 2006,01:03)]

Quote[/b] (pboreham @ Sep. 30 2006,19:05)]Oh my, it is going to be a long year.

Firstly, this post is going to be constructive. I am a supporter of over 20 years, go home and away as much as I can from my Lincolnshire home and have what I consider a very good knowledge of football.

Do not accuse me of 'not getting behind the team' or any of that rubbish - I chant and shout support to the players - including encouraging players like Paynter and JCR when they are getting stick.

If you want to argue any of these points, then please respond with reasonable arguments... thanks!

First point - player for player, I'm not sure we have the quality to survive at the moment. Ricketts has showed in 2 20 minute cameos that the level of not only skill, but footballing intelligence needed for this level may be beyond 95% of the side - that said, I hope this will improve over the season with experience.

Secondly, Tilly's team selection today was wrong. Paynter, though still not being anywhere near effective, had a 'better' game Sunday and would in that much be said to be improving. Then he gets dropped. Why stick with him through much worse performances then drop him?

Hooper and Eastwood are too similar and gave us no base to build from today. It was EASY for Johnson and Moore and I doubt they broke sweat.

I'm not saying Paynter would have been the answer today, I think we needed to be cuter with our tactics and approach play.

Also, throwing Hooper into that sort of game and atmosphere was a bit odd - its a long way from 200 people at Roots Hall.

Thirdly, up against Steve Howard, playing Clarke in such poor form, coupled with his and Barretts lack of height is suicide. Sodje needs to be in the side immediately - I'm not a Sodje 'fan-boy' by any means, but its quite obvious that Clarke is struggling and we are conceeding goals left right and centre from set-play crosses.

Fourth, why bring Gutts back into the side. This is very 'un-Tilson' like. JCR is an excellent worker away from home and whilst I can see what Tilly was trying to do, he did say in the week that Guttridge would have to earn his place back in the side - which I doubt 90 mins of reserve team football has done.

The whole selection today was extremely odd and I hope its not the first signs of Tilly panicking or bowing to fan-pressure - neither of which he has done before.

We need to improve and quickly. The service into the front men is shocking, the support from midfield is non-existant and organisation at the back is at best sloppy.

No doubt there will also be calls for Collis to come in for Flavs - and I can see that point of view too, but at least Flahavan has proved himself over the years and I doubt a few wobbles will dent his confidence.

All in all, another poor display where we offered nothing. The oppositon were smarter, quicker and a better quality of player.

On the bright side, I think I can see an improvement when Ricketts is starting alongside Eastwood and some of our important players get some sort of form back. Confidence as got to start from the back, so if Tilly makes no other changes than Sodje (or even Prior) for Clarke then that will be a start.

Please.............. Your first paragraph made me want to puke, we dont give a sh!t how long you have been a supporter, or were you live, just talk some sense please?

??

Yawn Yawn Ywan

Ha! You are priceless mate.

My point was that some of the things I had to say, I was expecting some vitriol - so I wanted to show that I am somebody that has been through the very worst times and I have commitment to the cause, so what I was about to say came with a bit of feeling.

The fact is that every person who has replied have been extremely complimentory and for most part in total agreement goes to show that I wasnt actually too far from the mark.

And as other have now pointed out, you hammered the point home about being 38, living in Aberdeen and getting to games when you can... yawn yawn?? Hmmm....

 

[Beefy]

Quote[/b] (Hooly @ Sep. 30 2006,21:09)]Good post as usual Paul. I wasn't there today, so only heard the radio commentary & can rely on texts from friends. The worrying thing from the texts I got from fans of 15-20+ years is they were saying there appeared to be a lack of passion. They've seen the bad times as well.

If the reason he took Billy out of the firing line was fans pressure, which I highly doubt as much as you, why do it for an away game where the support is always much better. If it's an admission that Paynter isn't up to this level, fair enough but drop him because of the fans, I don't think so.

I don't know about a lack of passion. There was a lack of something though. The second that Derby scored the away fans just died and the players looked like they didn't want to be there. Probably because Derby really should have been 3-0 up by that point already.

I doubt that there was a fan in the stands or a player on the pitch who honestly thought that we were going to go away with even a point once Lupoli squeezed in their first.

Just before the second half, our players came out of the tunnel as if they really didn't want to be there and you just knew that they were going to score with their first real attack at that point.

 

[palexander]

Quote[/b] (Beefy @ Oct. 01 2006,10:12)]

Quote[/b] (Hooly @ Sep. 30 2006,21:09)]Good post as usual Paul. I wasn't there today, so only heard the radio commentary & can rely on texts from friends. The worrying thing from the texts I got from fans of 15-20+ years is they were saying there appeared to be a lack of passion. They've seen the bad times as well.

If the reason he took Billy out of the firing line was fans pressure, which I highly doubt as much as you, why do it for an away game where the support is always much better. If it's an admission that Paynter isn't up to this level, fair enough but drop him because of the fans, I don't think so.

I don't know about a lack of passion. There was a lack of something though. The second that Derby scored the away fans just died and the players looked like they didn't want to be there. Probably because Derby really should have been 3-0 up by that point all ready.

I doubt that there was a fan in the stands or a player on the pitch who honestly thought that we were going to go away with even a point once Lupoli squeezed in their first.

Just before the second half, our players came out of the tunnel as if they really didn't want to be there and you just knew that they were going to score with their first real attack at that point.

Yep, and Adam Barrett has said the same.

The players are quickly losing belief that they can get results and when they go behind heads are dropping.

I dont know how you get out of this type of slump - Tilly needs to get into their heads, but its not going to be easy. Like I said in my other post, this is where we can come in as fans and keep backing the players.

But I do appreciate after driving 4 hours up the motorway and spending nigh on £100, its hard to be cheerful!

We desperately need to keep winning games at home now, because away at places like Derby, I doubt we can pick much up currently.

 

[piersend]

Thought Francis was an absolute liability, Clarke too, best bet is to have Hunt at right back, where he was excellent for us last term when Jupp was out, bring back Sodje for Clarke, that should improve us no end.

 

[Mr. Benedict]

You've been spot on with pretty much all of your posts since yesterday, Pboreham.

The thing that worries me most at the moment is the defence. Yesterday I was nervous every time they came forward as they don't seem to be able to cope with the simplest thing at the moment. Then first step to rediscovering our form is to stop conceding goals - and to achieve that, IMO, we need to change personnel. Sodje should come in for Clarke at the least.