The Luton Game On Saturday

[KrustyTheKray]

Yet again we concede three goals, and at home! Simply not good enough if you ask me. When was the last good match at home?

Luton were already down and from the off you could tell they wanted it more than us.

Compare Kevin Blackwell to Tilly. Blackwell on his feet encouraging his players etc, Tilly just standing there as usual. At one point for a long spell, Tilly was sitting down on a bench in front of his dugout.

Tilly's post match interview, again excuses, excuses, excuses!! When is he ever going to put his hands up and admit he's in the wrong? When will he ever take the blame for his sides poor performance, and my god there's been some shocking displays by our team this season. All he ever says is "i couldn't ask for no more from my lads", or "the ref was very poor and gave bad decisions" etc.

Wise took full responsibility for Leeds United situation and near certain relegation, Tilly just harps on, and didn't take any responsibility.

Yes he's done fantastically well getting us to this league, but he's out of his depth in it!

I want a change in management, yes Tilly is a legend etc etc. But i want a manager with fresh ideas and new tactics. And better awareness on potential signings. I fear we will stagnate under Tilly/Brush. I think we'll struggle again next season, especially with the players we have.

Will we hear the same things next season from Tilly like, "its so hard to sign players, and no one wants to let anyone go, and the money is tight". We had good chances to sign players for the championship, and blew it dramatically. What's going to be different next season? Next season's league one will be much tougher also. And Tilly wont have as much money to throw away.

I would like to see a manager come in who will take no stick from his players. A manager who will be ruthless and wont be afraid to drop any player if their not performing. I want a manager who is vocal, and wont keep making excuses in post match interviews, and to take the flak if he makes mistakes and gets things wrong. A manager who will tell it as it it. Martin Allen or Mike Newell fit this bill, and would be good managers at SUFC.

Tilly/Brush have taken us as far as they can and should resign.

Webb took us up to this league, but what did he achieve when he returned here?

Yes we've had some good matches this season, but it's been a total nightmare if you ask me. A season to forget in my eyes!

Just watch the crowds drop off next year.

Oh well, least we're in the Johnstones Paint Trophy, and have local games against the Gills and Millwall etc.

League one here we come.

Up The Blues!

 

[Jay_Shrimper]

|"I would like to see a manager come in who will take no stick from his players. A manager who will be ruthless and wont be afraid to drop any player if their not performing. I want a manager who is vocal, and wont keep making excuses in post match interviews, and to take the flak if he makes mistakes and gets things wrong. A manager who will tell it as it it. Martin Allen or Mike Newell fit this bill, and would be good managers at SUFC."|

Couldn't have put it better myself, TonyTheKray. Tilly is a SUFC hero and a legend and no one can doubt that - but he should go now. He's done as much as he possibly can (I think..) but I think its time for someone with a little more experience to come in and take us forward.

I can see people coming on here and saying he should stay because he's new to the managerial side etc but what we need now is someone who has more experience than Tilly.

Don't doubt me, Tilly is a wonderful man and if he was to go I'd miss him, but I think it will benefit in the long run.

 

[weststander]

Sorry to disagree with you Tony, but who would we replace them with ? An Experienced manager like Colin Murphy perhaps or a young up an coming manager like say Ronnie Whelan ?? Sorry we've been there, done that, got relegated (Or nearly in CM's case). I think that we should give Tilly and Brush a chance to sort out their mess, i say give em till at least Christmas and then review the situation

 

[MK Shrimper]

Arrgh! No... the man is young, he's learning and I'm sure he's learnt buckets this season. He won us the title last year - what more experience do you need?

 

[blueritethru]

Yet again we concede three goals, and at home! Simply not good enough if you ask me. When was the last good match at home?

Luton were already down and from the off you could tell they wanted it more than us.

Compare Kevin Blackwell to Tilly. Blackwell on his feet encouraging his players etc, Tilly just standing there as usual. At one point for a long spell, Tilly was sitting down on a bench in front of his dugout.

Tilly's post match interview, again excuses, excuses, excuses!! When is he ever going to put his hands up and admit he's in the wrong? When will he ever take the blame for his sides poor performance, and my god there's been some shocking displays by our team this season. All he ever says is "i couldn't ask for no more from my lads", or "the ref was very poor and gave bad decisions" etc.

Wise took full responsibility for Leeds United situation and near certain relegation, Tilly just harps on, and didn't take any responsibility.

Yes he's done fantastically well getting us to this league, but he's out of his depth in it!

I want a change in management, yes Tilly is a legend etc etc. But i want a manager with fresh ideas and new tactics. And better awareness on potential signings. I fear we will stagnate under Tilly/Brush. I think we'll struggle again next season, especially with the players we have.

Will we hear the same things next season from Tilly like, "its so hard to sign players, and no one wants to let anyone go, and the money is tight". We had good chances to sign players for the championship, and blew it dramatically. What's going to be different next season? Next season's league one will be much tougher also. And Tilly wont have as much money to throw away.

I would like to see a manager come in who will take no stick from his players. A manager who will be ruthless and wont be afraid to drop any player if their not performing. I want a manager who is vocal, and wont keep making excuses in post match interviews, and to take the flak if he makes mistakes and gets things wrong. A manager who will tell it as it it. Martin Allen or Mike Newell fit this bill, and would be good managers at SUFC.

Tilly/Brush have taken us as far as they can and should resign.

Webb took us up to this league, but what did he achieve when he returned here?

Yes we've had some good matches this season, but it's been a total nightmare if you ask me. A season to forget in my eyes!

Just watch the crowds drop off next year.

Oh well, least we're in the Johnstones Paint Trophy, and have local games against the Gills and Millwall etc.

League one here we come.

Up The Blues!

Spot on TTK, at least one other person agrees with me...........hopefully a few others might start opening their eyes as well :cry:

 

[KrustyTheKray]

Sorry to disagree with you Tony, but who would we replace them with ? An Experienced manager like Colin Murphy perhaps or a young up an coming manager like say Ronnie Whelan ?? Sorry we've been there, done that, got relegated (Or nearly in CM's case). I think that we should give Tilly and Brush a chance to sort out their mess, i say give em till at least Christmas and then review the situation

Nope, i say get them out now. Start fresh for next season, and the future.

The last time we got relegated, we got relegated again. History has a funny thing of repeating itself.

 

[Beefy]

If it weren't for Tilly we'd be in the Conference. He's not perfect, he's made mistakes and he'll make more in the future but he's a human being and that's what they do.

He's done a great job here but how we bounce back from this relegation is going to be the true test of him as a manager. And he deserves the chance to put right what has gone wrong. He's got enough goodwill in the bank for that.

 

[KrustyTheKray]

Spot on TTK, at least one other person agrees with me...........hopefully a few others might start opening their eyes as well :cry:

Can't see it myself mate. But i share your view.

 

[Beefy]

Nope, i say get them out now. Start fresh for next season, and the future.

The last time we got relegated, we got relegated again. History has a funny thing of repeating itself.

We changed managers that season too....

 

[weststander]

Nope, i say get them out now. Start fresh for next season, and the future.

The last time we got relegated, we got relegated again. History has a funny thing of repeating itself.

Your right, but last time we didnt have everything we have now, the chairman had mortgaged everything that we had, including the seats in the ground, there was no money and we had players that didnt want to play for us. Now i appreciate theres not much money around, but the players want to play for the club, and when has Ron ever said no to Tilly ? He's 100% behind the club because if he's not he wont be able to make a profit when he sells up after we've moved into the new stadium. As for Martin Allen , he has a multi millionaire chairman and a brand new stadium, he's not going to come here is he ? And Mike Newell is just a loose cannon and yes he got Luton up from League 1 but didnt set the Chapionship alight with them after that did he ? And who else would realistically want to come to us, Sam Allerdyce perhaps ?

 

[KrustyTheKray]

Your right, but last time we didnt have everything we have now, the chairman had mortgaged everything that we had, including the seats in the ground, there was no money and we had players that didnt want to play for us. Now i appreciate theres not much money around, but the players want to play for the club, and when has Ron ever said no to Tilly ? He's 100% behind the club because if he's not he wont be able to make a profit when he sells up after we've moved into the new stadium. As for Martin Allen , he has a multi millionaire chairman and a brand new stadium, he's not going to come here is he ? And Mike Newell is just a loose cannon and yes he got Luton up from League 1 but didnt set the Chapionship alight with them after that did he ? And who else would realistically want to come to us, Sam Allerdyce perhaps ?

Yes but Mike Newell wasn't allowed to spend and of the money they got for players like Steve Howard etc.

Tilly wasted what money we had with silly panic buys.

And how many other players have relegation release clauses in their contract?

It's a known fact, Clarke only came here for Championship football.

The last few matches i've seen, i've not seen many of our players want to play with pride for SUFC!

 

[weststander]

Yes but Mike Newell wasn't allowed to spend and of the money they got for players like Steve Howard etc.

Tilly wasted what money we had with silly panic buys.

And how many other players have relegation release clauses in their contract?

It's a known fact, Clarke only came here for Championship football.

The last few matches i've seen, i've not seen many of our players want to play with pride for SUFC!

I agree that Tilly perhaps didnt make the wisest choices with the money this year, but then wasnt it him that brought in Freddy, Barrett, Sodje, Guttridge, JCR, Goater and others, he has made as many good signings as he's made bad. Even Sir Alex has brought some duff players in his time.
Do we know as FACT that any of our players have relegation release clauses ? And yes a few of them, Clarke, Hammill and Freddy might want to leave but i'm sure that Tilly will be able to replace them as we'll be one of the better payers in league one rather than the very poor relations in the Championship. And who is to say that if we brought in a new manager he would be able to recruit Championship class players to the club after all he'll have the same budget as Tilly.

 

[palexander]

Brave post considering the climite on SZ and peoples holier than thou attitude to Tilly.

Me and my mate had an hour telephone conversation over the weekend about Tilly and SUFCs future and its one that I dont think will go away over then next couple of months.

I've voiced my opinions this season on Tilly and have been suprised at peoples blinkered views and prepared to live off of his past successes.

Tilly has shown to be tactically naive and also to not have an eye for players at this level. The sigining of Matt Harrold surely ranks up with the one of the worst buys this club has made and considering we spent nearly £500,000 on Paynter and Foran beggers belief.

It was touched on in another post yesterday, but Tillys insistance of playing 442 every game with virtually the same line up was a big, BIG mistake. This is not league 1 or 2 where that will get results if you have a bit of quality.

Not once did we tactically adjust to counter an opponent - not once was we a bit cute to get a result. We relied on 442, Eastwood and a bit of luck this season and all too often, we were lucky to get 1 out of 3 of those working in a match - and hence got no run of results.

I still think the lack of players coming in 'because they dont want to play for Southend' is total BS. You cannot tell me we couldnt of picked up some more decent league 1 players that wanted a chance to play against Birmingham, Derby, Sunderland etc.

Kieron Parker, Hayter, Agogo - even the top conference players like George Boyd etc would have been worth a go above Paynter - and I'd much rather have gone down, knowing George Boyd has had a year under his belt ready for League 1 than Billy Paynter.

There is only one reason I want Tilly to carry on next year and that is because I cannot think of anyone else that could do a job.

That is sad - and I hope he proves me wrong, but I am going into League 1 very concerned that we dont go down again.

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

Tony you seem to think that posting the same old cobblers time and again is going to win an argument. It won't. It's like Chinese water torture. Give it a rest.

 

[weststander]

Tony you seem to think that posting the same old cobblers time and again is going to win an argument. It won't. It's like Chinese water torture. Give it a rest.

Give Tony a chance ! He's only putting forward his view and as this is a forum he's entitled to it. If we all thought the same it wouldnt be much of a forum would it ?

 

[palexander]

Tony you seem to think that posting the same old cobblers time and again is going to win an argument. It won't. It's like Chinese water torture. Give it a rest.

The league table doesnt say its cobblers.

Not making everything black and white, but TTKs points hold more substance than those points made by people of opposing views.

 

[Beefy]

The league table doesnt say its cobblers.

Not making everything black and white, but TTKs points hold more substance than those points made by people of opposing views.

In your opinion. In mine, and in many others, they don't.

 

[A Century United]

The league table doesnt say its cobblers.

Not making everything black and white, but TTKs points hold more substance than those points made by people of opposing views.

Sorry, pb, but I have kept my peace on this issue because it simply isn't worth arguing with TTK because he ignores all attempts at reasoned debate. Of course he is entitled to his opinion, and people are entitled to disagree with him. To claim that TTK's opinions have more substance than the opposing opinions is simply ludicrous. You can't have been reading the threads where people of intelligence and restraint, like Beefy and Jam_Man have dealt with many of his claims and clearly demonstrated that he is way off the mark.

 

[Kris]

It was touched on in another post yesterday, but Tillys insistance of playing 442 every game with virtually the same line up was a big, BIG mistake. This is not league 1 or 2 where that will get results if you have a bit of quality.

Not once did we tactically adjust to counter an opponent - not once was we a bit cute to get a result. We relied on 442, Eastwood and a bit of luck this season and all too often, we were lucky to get 1 out of 3 of those working in a match - and hence got no run of results.

I think this is clutching at straws to be honest. You should play to your strengths and 4-4-2 suits us best. We beat the likes of Birmingham, Sunderland, Southampton and West Brom playing this way and I doubt the players would be comfortable in any other system. Not from the start anyway. To be fair to Tilly, he did on a few occasions switch to 4-3-3 or 3-4-3 (most notably against Norwich at home) during games with some success

As for "playing the same line-up", Tilly regularly chopped and changed throughout the season. In fact, he actually generally followed the consensus of opinion on here - play Clarke (done), drop Clarke (done) drop JCR (done), try Hunt at RB and Francis in midfield (done), drop Francis altogether (done), drop Gutts (done). Etc etc.

I still think the lack of players coming in 'because they dont want to play for Southend' is total BS. You cannot tell me we couldnt of picked up some more decent league 1 players that wanted a chance to play against Birmingham, Derby, Sunderland etc.

Kieron Parker, Hayter, Agogo - even the top conference players like George Boyd etc would have been worth a go above Paynter - and I'd much rather have gone down, knowing George Boyd has had a year under his belt ready for League 1 than Billy Paynter.

Agogo was on a huge wage at Bristol Rovers. He would have been a great signing but we couldn't afford him. Hayter - again, a good player but too similar to Freddy. Kiegan Parker is a great talent too but I'm reliably informed by a Blackpool fan that his attitude has generally been terrible this season. He's been in and out of their side all season.

There is only one reason I want Tilly to carry on next year and that is because I cannot think of anyone else that could do a job.

That is sad - and I hope he proves me wrong, but I am going into League 1 very concerned that we dont go down again.

If we have a similar squad to this season, plus a few additions, we'll more than hold our own in League 1. The gulf in standard between the two divisions is pretty big, much bigger than the last time we went down. We got a little snapshot of what to expect this season - we beat Brighton and Bournemouth and loaned six of our players to League 1 teams. Cole, Paynter, Guttridge and Hooper were all very well received by supporters of their respective clubs, which suggests that our squad in general will cope with League 1 football comfortably.

I'm still very much behind Tilly. Obviously he deserves some criticism for this season but it would be ridiculous not to give him an opportunity to atone for his mistakes given his track record since becoming manager. Besides, we need some stability after all the years of chopping and changing managers every 18 months. Dario Gradi got relegated with Crewe on several occasions but he knew how to get them back up. Tilly can do the same with us.

 

[palexander]

Playing to our strengths served us well in League 1 & 2, but what i was trying to say is that will get you so far if you have quality within that system (Eastwood, Maher, Gutts, Barrett etc from the lower leagues).

Once we got into the CCC, that quality was undermined and then we needed something else to compensate for the fact that man-for-man, we were not as good as our opponents - something that couldnt have been said for the 2 years previous.

The system change v Norwich was very much out of desperation of the result - and yes, it worked well - so why didnt we see more of this?

Hull away was crying out for a containing job - packing the midfield and trying to get a point. Every point is so precious when you are at this stage of the season and a point at Hull could have made a huge difference to moral - I believe we were relegated that day.

I find it astounding if we couldnt afford the wages of a League 2 player, playing at a club with massive financial problems - even if we offered him less, the chance of CCC football and playing alongside Eastwood should have countered any drop on wages - plus we must have shelled out thousands on Ricketts wages?

I also wish people would be more cautious about next season! We have a losing mentality within this squad and I dont think it is that great unless some changes are made. We got through League 1 last year on the back of momentum, team spirit and Freddy Eastwood - none of which we have at the moment and I can see that being the case in August!