Administration essential and Sainsbury's

[Interpol Shrimper]

More concerning is why that woman from HMRC wants us in administration even if we settle our debt to them.

See my post above ;)

 

[Beefy]

I know exactly why they're going after us.
Somebody, who shall remain nameless, with his big mouth comment about "Bank of HMRC"...

I don't think that's got anything to do with it. It's the fact that he (and dozens of other Football Chairmen) persistently has used HMRC as a Bank that is the problem rather than one inappropriate comment.

As far as I know no one at Cardiff made a similar statement, and in fact they have even changed owners recently, and yet HMRC actions here are mirrored there.

 

[Holy Joe]

"See, to me that doesn't seem the sort of level of profit that makes me think that this is a brilliant investment for Sainsburys. Even considering that this will be a massive store (top three in terms of size, I think), it would need to make a lot of profit for a lot of years to justify this expenditure. Plus they would be losing the profit from the London Road store.

Still, you've got to presume that they have done the numbers. "

But aren't they also development partners at Fossets - so could they be getting a share of any income/profit from the development. Which probably means not much non football money left for SUFC once in Fossetts.

 

[turkishm]

We all know who is to blame for this mess, but actually, I think the statement about seeking Administration, even if we clear our debts with them, seems to me to appear extremely vindictive. It's nothing to do with HMRC if we clear our debts with them, and it's also none of their business who our other creditors are, as long as they themselves are being paid.

It's not for them to speculate on how we can or cannot go forward, and if it is indeed true that our finances are being guaranteed by a company as sizeable as Sainsbury's, what court in their right mind would then agree with the Administration application?

We may have acted appallingly, but from this point onwards, that is history as far as HMRC are concerned, as long as they get what they are owed. You do wonder if this was Manchester United, if they would be so keen to twist the kinfe.

To be honest thats the way i see it to. I am far from Martin biggest fan, but if he manages to pay HMRC, even at the last min, what is it to do with them what we owe or dont owe to other people.

 

[Firestorm]

I don't think that's got anything to do with it. It's the fact that he (and dozens of other Football Chairmen) persistently has used HMRC as a Bank that is the problem rather than one inappropriate comment.

As far as I know no one at Cardiff made a similar statement, and in fact they have even changed owners recently, and yet HMRC actions here and mirrored there.

Leeds ripping HMRC off for Millions is a more likely reason for going after football clubs promptly, rather than an alleged grudge against a team which to date has paid all of its tax liabilities , albeit a bit tardily.

HMRC appear to have highlighted a flaw in their debt recovery system , which allowed football clubs to rack up tax debts and then not pay them in full by going into administration, so they are chasing a bit harder

If anything RMs well documented anti administration stance has made us an easy target for HMRC, now they have got the big debt out of the way, by threatening administration every time a months payment is a few days late, it ends up being paid within a month. if they do get the plug pulled at anytime they only lose one months money.

 

[Billy is the best]

i would think that HMRC are pushing for administration because it would allow independent financial auditing. The tie up between Martin Dawn and Mezcal perhaps.
As Mezcal are the biggest shareholder in South East leisure who in turn own SUFC.
The more i try to understand the clubs situation the more confused it becomes.

 

[Jam_Man]

See, to me that doesn't seem the sort of level of profit that makes me think that this is a brilliant investment for Sainsburys. Even considering that this will be a massive store (top three in terms of size, I think), it would need to make a lot of profit for a lot of years to justify this expenditure. Plus they would be losing the profit from the London Road store.

Still, you've got to presume that they have done the numbers.

Theres other considerations to pure profit though, at present Southend has a massive Tescos, a Waitrose and not too far out an Asda

Sainsbury has some tatty old store in the middle of town.

It would be a massive boost to their brand alone to have a flagship store in the middle of one of the biggest towns in Essex.

 

[Beefy]

Would the administration of the company at the bottom of the food chain allow the Administrators, let alone a very small creditor such as HMRC, access to the bigger group structure? Once the Administrators step in, that company's links to the rest of the group are severed anyway, aren't they?

This is a great educational process in Company Law for us all, I guess.

 

[Billy is the best]

quite possibly. The offshore companies remain the big unknown in this jigsaw. That is why they are used

 

[Angell Delight]

"She argued administration would not destroy the football club, but would allow experienced professionals to go in and run the club to sort out their finances."

I am finding it increasingly difficult to argue against that despite the points deduction.

I have to say I agree.

 

[Beefy]

I have to say I agree.

As I said, how would an experianced professional be any more able to pay our wage bill and our tax bill than Ron Martin is, unless he'd dip into his own pockets (which an Administrator definitely would not do)? Administration would be another very severe financial drain and we'd likely come out of it still with Ron Martin in charge anyway.

 

[Thor]

so there you go . . . . it will be the Sainsbury's Arena

I think most of us can live with that.

The question is, will we get double points when we pay at the gate.

 

[Csboy]

So Sainsburys are going to keep bailing us out? I doubt they are going to keep doing that they have shareholders to answer to. We can't keep going on like this. I think going into administartion might be the best option in the long term. Yes it will sign our relegation death warrent for sure but at least it would clear some of the debts and we can start again. Plus it would also mean having a chance to get Ron martin out and bring in people who actually have the clubs best interests at heart.

If we keep going on like how we have been over the last year the new manager will go along with any new players we might sign.

 

[Medway Blue]

So Sainsburys are going to keep bailing us out? I doubt they are going to keep doing that they have shareholders to answer to. We can't keep going on like this. I think going into administartion might be the best option in the long term. Yes it will sign our relegation death warrent for sure but at least it would clear some of the debts and we can start again. Plus it would also mean having a chance to get Ron martin out and bring in people who actually have the clubs best interests at heart.

If we keep going on like how we have been over the last year the new manager will go along with any new players we might sign.

Fully agree.

Having Sainsbury's keep bailing us out is no way to run a Football Club. We'll move into Fossett's and won't see the financial benefit because Ron has to service a £20m+ debt to Sainsbury's.

 

[BrettieAngell]

Fully agree.

Having Sainsbury's keep bailing us out is no way to run a Football Club. We'll move into Fossett's and won't see the financial benefit because Ron has to service a £20m+ debt to Sainsbury's.

No Ron is just using the 20mill we would get for RH now. :'(

 

[Medway Blue]

No Ron is just using the 20mill we would get for RH now. :'(

Of course. Stupid mistake on my part there, lol.

OK, so it's the RH money. Which should be used on Fossett's development. Yet it's being used to pay off tax debts. So where does the money to build the stadium come from?

 

[BrettieAngell]

Of course. Stupid mistake on my part there, lol.

OK, so it's the RH money. Which should be used on Fossett's development. Yet it's being used to pay off tax debts. So where does the money to build the stadium come from?

Indeed, and round in circles we go!

 

[bluebrian]

Fully agree.

Having Sainsbury's keep bailing us out is no way to run a Football Club. We'll move into Fossett's and won't see the financial benefit because Ron has to service a £20m+ debt to Sainsbury's.

This is where I think the deal is so complex - my take on it is that Ron wont have to service a £20m+ debt to Sainsburys. Sainsburys are now partners with Ron and they will take a percentage of the profit on all the associated developments.

 

[Medway Blue]

This is where I think the deal is so complex - my take on it is that Ron wont have to service a £20m+ debt to Sainsburys. Sainsburys are now partners with Ron and they will take a percentage of the profit on all the associated developments.

So still reducing the financial benefit that we will see from the new stadium.....

 

[bluebrian]

So still reducing the financial benefit that we will see from the new stadium.....

I very much doubt we, meaning SUFC, were going to get any of the profit Ron is going to make from the development side of this transaction. My understanding was that we would potentially see revenue from associated things sunch as rental income but that has still to be confirmed.