The NFL thread

[Uncle Leo]

Pats no question, how about the Pack sneaking in there?

Well the Packers just can't lose at the moment and they've got the NFC North all but sewn up. Favre to get to the Super Bowl in his last season? What a story that would be!

 

[Kenny]

And while I'm here - Cowboys v Patriots for the Superbowl final.

Opinions?

I still think the Dolphins can do it :D

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Who's your top 5 then? Do you judge a QB by his success at leading sides to victory or his personal stats. ?

I judge a QB on their talent rather than their stats. Things like arm strength and technique, vision, who has the smoothest pass, the best chemistry with their receivers, game management. its all very subjective, but I'd then look at personal stats ahead of win-loss stats.

You can have a great QB with a lousy team, who will take an otherwise 2 and 14 team to 8 and 6, but then you can have an average QB who just hands off to a running back yet still gets a SB ring (see Roethlisburger, Ben).

As great as a QB is, if he hasn't got the O-line he'll look average. If a QB is being dumped on his backside every other play, he'll struggle to look good. If he hasn't got a running game he'll have to throw and teams can just drop men back into coverage and double mark and he'll struggle. The QB is the most important man in the team, but it remains a team game.

 

[WestRoadShrimper]

I judge a QB on their talent rather than their stats. Things like arm strength and technique, vision, who has the smoothest pass, the best chemistry with their receivers, game management. its all very subjective, but I'd then look at personal stats ahead of win-loss stats.

You can have a great QB with a lousy team, who will take an otherwise 2 and 14 team to 8 and 6, but then you can have an average QB who just hands off to a running back yet still gets a SB ring (see Roethlisburger, Ben).

As great as a QB is, if he hasn't got the O-line he'll look average. If a QB is being dumped on his backside every other play, he'll struggle to look good. If he hasn't got a running game he'll have to throw and teams can just drop men back into coverage and double mark and he'll struggle. The QB is the most important man in the team, but it remains a team game.

I really couldn't have written a better reply if I'd sat for days and written a dozen or so drafts first!

 

[chaco27saf]

Who's your top 5 then? Do you judge a QB by his success at leading sides to victory or his personal stats. ?

Well, as for what I rate a QB on, read YBs post as he got it spot on in my opinion. As for my top 5 of my lifetime (I was born in '84 so you know the timeline) are in no particular order.

John Elway- Despite rarely having a top wide receiver to throw to, he led his team to 5 Super Bowls plus his offensive line was awful for most of his career. Also, I can't think of a QB I'd rather have behind center when the game is on the line, just ask the Cleveland Browns about that. :D

Dan Marino- Marino played on some awful teams in his day, the fact that he made them respectable is a testament to his ability.

Brett Favre- Quite simply when Favre is on, the Packers are nearly unbeatable, if he is having an off day the Pack don't stand a chance.

Peyton Manning- He makes everyone around him better. Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne are both good receivers, but Manning makes them look great. He also might be the most intelligent QB I have ever seen when it comes to reading and reacting to defenses.

Joe Montana- OK, I said he probably wouldn't be in my top 5, but when I really started to think about it Montana gets in for one reason, his days with the Chiefs. He took a mediocre team and made them better. He is a fairly distant number 5 to those above him though.

 

[steveo]

A list of great QB's but I think I would have to find room for Brady just for the way he seems to be able to get the job done. If they win this year, and its loking likely, that will be 4 SB's in 7 years and to keep a team at the top for this period of time is an immense achievement by the whole organisation starting with the coach and the QB

 

[WestRoadShrimper]

John Elway - good shout.

Has there ever been another QB who could time after time drive the length of the field in the final 2 mins of a game to pull off the win? Had his 2 min drill down to a fine art.

 

[chaco27saf]

A list of great QB's but I think I would have to find room for Brady just for the way he seems to be able to get the job done. If they win this year, and its loking likely, that will be 4 SB's in 7 years and to keep a team at the top for this period of time is an immense achievement by the whole organisation starting with the coach and the QB

My only problem with Brady is he hasn't been tested in the way that the five I listed have. I remember watching Brady play at Michigan and he only seemed average to me. To be honest I'm not sure if Brady would have any success if he played for another team or if other QBs wouldn't have been catapulted to his level of stardom if they played for the Pats. By the end of his career these questions will inevitably be answered as the Pats will not be this strong forever, and when his playing days are over I could very well be proven to be wrong.

 

[chaco27saf]

John Elway - good shout.

Has there ever been another QB who could time after time drive the length of the field in the final 2 mins of a game to pull off the win? Had his 2 min drill down to a fine art.

One of my first ever memories was watching Elway lead "The Drive" against the Browns in '87 on TV, I don't exactly remember much about it, mostly just hearing cheering coming from all of our neighbors houses and my Dad cursing at the kicker out of fear he'd miss the extra point!

 

[Uncle Leo]

All this talk about top QBs of the last twenty years and no-one has mentioned Wrecks Grossman. Astonishing.

 

[chaco27saf]

All this talk about top QBs of the last twenty years and no-one has mentioned Wrecks Grossman. Astonishing.

Hopefully that comment will motivate Grossman on Sunday and he'll throw three TD passes




























to Champ Bailey

 

[Uncle Leo]

Hopefully that comment will motivate Grossman on Sunday and he'll throw three TD passes to Champ Bailey

Most likely :D

Chicago have had something stupid like 22 starting QBs since Favre started his run with the Packers. Just embarrassing.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Just noticed that the Denver at Chicago game is on Sky this weekend. So I'll actually get to see Wrecks f**k things up. Oh joy!

 

[WestRoadShrimper]

To add to the Brady thing; he's undoubtedly up there, but I'm not so sure he'd have been able to produce what he has if you go back 10/15 years when the QB's weren't wrapped in cotton wool as much as they are now.

There was a call against one of the Dallas linemen at the weekend when his hand hit the QB after the ball was thrown - and he'd been pushed into him by the offensive lineman!!!

 

[shrimp to 11]

Joe theissman and neil lomax injuries couldve been a cause to this new collymoddling towards quartebaks, wasnt as if qb's were getting wiped out left right n centre though was it?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Joe theissman and neil lomax injuries couldve been a cause to this new collymoddling towards quartebaks, wasnt as if qb's were getting wiped out left right n centre though was it?

Carson Palmer took a cheap, late hit by the Steelers' Kimi Von Oelhoffen in the 2005/06 play-offs, which destroyed Palmer's anterior cruciate ligaments.

One of the rule changes is therefore known as the Kimi rule.

I think Uxbridge's second favourite QB, Brian Griese is another one who was injured because of a late hit.

 

[Uncle Leo]

First of all, may I apologise to Seth for bringing this up, but what a game at Soldier Field last night between Chicago and Denver!

There were three TDs in 27 seconds at one point, as Denver went over, then Devin Hester returned the kick-off and then Denver scored off of the first down on their next possession.

Hester had earlier returned a 75 yard punt as well!

Then Chicago were 14 points down with just over five minutes to play and somehow an offense that had been as potent as a 90 year old who has lost his blue pills scored two TDs, the second with less than thirty seconds to spare to take it in to OT!

A Robbie Gould field goal clinched the game and the Bears' season is still alive....just.

 

[Interpol Shrimper]

Then Chicago were 14 points down with just over five minutes to play and somehow an offense that had been as potent as a 90 year old who has lost his blue pills scored two TDs, the second with less than thirty seconds to spare to take it in to OT!

A Robbie Gould field goal clinched the game and the Bears' season is still alive....just.

Blimey, I had a funny feeling that 4th quarter had something more to give but left it at about 9:30 to play after Chicago were turned over. A good result for the Bears! Shame the Giants got thumped by Minnesota :(

 

[loz]

and in other great games yesterday, my Eagles came a lot closer than anyone would have expected to turning over the Pats, eventually going down 31-28. Bizarre game for Feeley who came in for the injured McNabb- threw for over 300yds and 3 TD's, but also gave up 2td's on interceptions..

 

[chaco27saf]

First of all, may I apologise to Seth for bringing this up, but what a game at Soldier Field last night between Chicago and Denver!

There were three TDs in 27 seconds at one point, as Denver went over, then Devin Hester returned the kick-off and then Denver scored off of the first down on their next possession.

Hester had earlier returned a 75 yard punt as well!

Then Chicago were 14 points down with just over five minutes to play and somehow an offense that had been as potent as a 90 year old who has lost his blue pills scored two TDs, the second with less than thirty seconds to spare to take it in to OT!

A Robbie Gould field goal clinched the game and the Bears' season is still alive....just.

The Broncos are turning out to be a massive disappointment this year. Fair play to the Bears, but yesterday showed to me why Shanahan needs to be fired. The guy isn't a bad coach, but I feel his ego is starting to hold the Broncos back. Why would anyone in the right mind kick to Hester, especially with a Special Teams unit as bad as the Broncos. Sure, it worked early when Hester had one of the most comical fumbles I've ever seen, but after he returned one kick for a touchdown Shanahan should have been smarter than to kick to him again. Also, the defense at the end was horrid, that was one of the oddest defensive formations I've ever seen at that point in a game.

Firing Shanahan will be good for both parties, the Broncos will have an opportunity to get someone in who can move them forward and Shanahan will get the hit to his ego that should return him to the point that he was at in his first few years in Denver, a top-tier coach.

Of course if he rights the ship and the Broncos make the playoffs (which is still a definite possibility in the weak AFC West) I might be singing a different tune.

Anyways, I wanted to get your opinion on something, all the Denver papers were saying that the Broncos threw the game away, which I definitely agree with, but one of my friends who is a Bears fan is furious about the game being characterized like that, what's your opinion?