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Wouldnt be surprised if some of the players agents are already preparing moves elsewhere come January.

Got to agree that this is a big concern of mine, I think there's rather a lot who will be expecting re-negotiation this year as they are coming to that one year left stage, and with things the way they are and the apparent disregard for loyal player's feelings you wouldn't blame them in the slightest.

Where's the family atmosphere the Club as always prided itself on? You wouldn't treat the blackest sheep in your family the way King has treated Revs, or with the disregard he apparently has for Spinner.
 
Again you make statements that you have no proof of whatsoever. Opinions are one thing, beliefs are another but in order to avoid coming across as someone that's, shall we say, half a brick short of a full hod, it may be better to actually clarify that it's your opinion or belief.

If you do have proof then I retract all that and await your reply.
Not one for beliefs or opinions best dealing with FACTS mate
 
Got to agree that this is a big concern of mine, I think there's rather a lot who will be expecting re-negotiation this year as they are coming to that one year left stage, and with things the way they are and the apparent disregard for loyal player's feelings you wouldn't blame them in the slightest.

To be honest, I'd be quite happy to see us go back to the days of most players being on one year contracts, at least until we can balance the books a bit better.
 
Your the one talking about how things are not so bad and i am saying dont be so stupid. Now your asking what i want to happen? Cant you see the trouble we are in?
 
To be honest, I'd be quite happy to see us go back to the days of most players being on one year contracts, at least until we can balance the books a bit better.
players will not stay on one year contracrs as no security when there will be many clubs offering two year deals. At least half the squad have contracts running out.
 
Most clubs at this level survive on one year contracts. We did for years. If our players don't want to stay on that basis then there's plenty more out there who will.
 
Not one for beliefs or opinions best dealing with FACTS mate

But you are not all you have is hearsay. Where are your facts that players have not been paid?

I am not naive and I am well aware we are in the mire, but I have no evidence that players have not been paid, and if you have I challenge you to produce it.
 
I like to think I'm pretty level-headed. For a living I analyse situations and to do that you have to remove emotion, look at the evidence and at times use common-sense to fill in any gaps.

Looking at this situation, it is possible to make the arguement that fbm makes. After all, every noise coming out of the Club says that we're doing ok financially. We're not in Administration, we're free to sign players and according to the Club the winding-up petition will be dismissed just as soon as a large cheque from Sainsburys turns up on our doorstep. Plus Betsy and Revell were just two squad players and to be honest I said in the Summer that we had too many strikers and should be looking to get rid of one.

The trouble with the 'everything is fine, just chill-out' picture painted above is that it just doesn't wash with me. There's too many gaps.

My summary of the way things are, based on my understanding of events to date, is that when we got promoted in 2005/2006 we entered into a World where our income increased massively. More TV money, a run to the last-eight of a major cup competition and ultimately the sale of the second most valuable player in our history led to greatly increased turnover compared to anything we'd seen previously. However due to necessary investment on the playing staff to boost a squad which had achieved back-to-back promotions but which was likely to be outclassed at the next level our outgoings increased equally and in the Summer of 2007 we were relegated and broke even on the Accounts.

The next season our average gates were down 2,000, mainly due to greatly diminished away attendances, we had no international striker to sell for a seven-figure sum and we didn't have a long cup run meaning that turnover reduced substantially. But at the same time the wage bill for contracts which were signed, or re-negotiated, in the Championship were still having to be paid at that level, and the Club continued to invest money on new signings (Bailey, Revell, Barnard & Walker costing well over half a million between them). With income down and expenditure constant we returned massive losses.

The next season income dropped still further, despite the boost of a cracking cup performance at Chelsea but still the likes of Foran & Clarke cashed in big pay-cheques every week. According to Ron Martin we were one of the top five wage payers in this division last season. Also according to him the accounts to August 2009 will show a slightly greater loss to the one reported the previous year (£2.1m IIRC).

The Accounts show that the losses we've incurred and the debts that we've run up are financed by loans from Directors and from associated companies (not least SEL). That's a good thing in the sense that it means that they are unlikely to be called in (I believe we don't run an overdraft so we don't have to worry about an outside organisation like a bank calling in our lending lines), but the first rule of business is that Cash is King. The losses that we've made have destroyed any liquidity in the business which is why we're allegedly more likely to be late in paying bills and allegedly more likely to be using cash earmarked for things like a tax bill or for a "contractual obligation" to pass on funds for a testimonial.

If I was looking at these accounts and they weren't for Southend United Football Club, I'd be worried as I'd be looking at a company with real cash-flow difficulties and who's entire possibility of continuing as a going concerns rests on the ongoing support of the Directors and on one of their creditors not trying to wind them up. The fact that I know these accounts are for Southend United would make me feel slightly better as I think there's little chance of the Chairman pulling the plug. If we can generate enough cash to pay off the winding up petition we'll be ok in the short term. If that means letting a few players go then that means letting a few players go.

So with that being the situation as I understand it, what personally annoys me (bringing emotion back into things for one moment) is when the Club either make promises that they can't keep (we will sign players) or sling mud at a player who is on the way out in order to detract attention from the real reason why we have to reduce the squad.

I don't think that the Club are totally at fault for where we are today. We all wanted the player investment. We wanted to be successful and we over-reached ourselves (and demonstrated entirely why we need a new ground and new income streams to compete in the Second Tier). We could have gone bust a decade ago and were saved by the people in charge now and those same people have moved the Club forward and have taken us closer to a new stadium and a new future than we've ever had before. Ron Martin and Geoff King aren't villains in all this and I'm fairly happy to trust our future to them. I just ask that they don't lie to us and don't insult our intelligence along the way.

Good post. Well said. It does concern me though that these alleged financial problems have come about just after we've had a few good years income wise. 5 years ago, and I could have understood it.
 
But you are not all you have is hearsay. Where are your facts that players have not been paid?

I am not naive and I am well aware we are in the mire, but I have no evidence that players have not been paid, and if you have I challenge you to produce it.
Please just take it from me it is not hear say or something i think! It is a fact that players have had to wait for weeks to be paid prevously AND i cannot explain fully but its 110% true. If you needed to reduce wage bill would you let go a player in your 1st eleven or a player you would see as a squad player? Hence us off loading when at the start of season our manager said the squad was small and needed additions. Ask yourself the question Why woud prior lie if he had been paid fully?
 
Good post. Well said. It does concern me though that these alleged financial problems have come about just after we've had a few good years income wise. 5 years ago, and I could have understood it.

Five years ago we were a mid-table League Two Club with a relatively low wage bill and a very low transfer kitty. That was when Ron Martin said that we needed gates of 6,000 to break even. I guess we probably need double that now, which is tricky in an 11,000 capacity ground.
 
Please just take it from me it is not hear say or something i think! It is a fact that players have had to wait for weeks to be paid prevously AND i cannot explain fully but its 110% true. If you needed to reduce wage bill would you let go a player in your 1st eleven or a player you would see as a squad player? Hence us off loading when at the start of season our manager said the squad was small and needed additions. Ask yourself the question Why woud prior lie if he had been paid fully?

As far as reducing wage bills letting players out on loan does not necessarily reduce the wage bill significantly as often the parent club will often foot the bill for part or if not all of the players wages. I am not certainly not doubting the veracity of Spinner, but in fairness payments of testimonial monies or for that matter can be delayed waiting for others to come up with their pledges.
 
As far as reducing wage bills letting players out on loan does not necessarily reduce the wage bill significantly as often the parent club will often foot the bill for part or if not all of the players wages. I am not certainly not doubting the veracity of Spinner, but in fairness payments of testimonial monies or for that matter can be delayed waiting for others to come up with their pledges.
Is that not reducing the wage bill then if another club pays half???
 
Spot on.

The only thing that concerns me is the unpaid money to chairty. I would have paid money to send Revell to Swindon, Betsy I liked but Tilson didnt so he had him out. We havent singed anyone which is annoying but we all knew it was going to be tough until FF came along.

We seem to be investing more in youth than ever and this has reaped rewards with Francky Moussas emergence, we have seen better loaness the last season than ever before, gates and season tickets have been on the up from a **** poor 4000 when I was a kid to the best part of 8.

For me there are always some that want to think the worst and they lvoe a chance like this to stir it up. What are we protesting about exactly???
 
Is that not reducing the wage bill then if another club pays half???

Yes, but it's only a short term measure as both Betsy & Revell are still contracted to Southend United FC and none of us know for sure the financial conditions of the loans.

The only sure fire way to reduce the wage bill is to shed employees, whether they be players or other members of the work force.
 
FBM - I normally think you write reasonable posts. However, on this, I believe you're just plain determined to see the positives and ignore everything else. Good luck to you, I wish I could be like you. We may not be like Southampton, Luton, etc YET - but you're just focusing on the position today.

Like Beefy, I'd like to think I'm pretty level-headed. I also have to be pretty analytical and detached in my job. I don't usually see things as black and white. On this whole situation, though, I'm extremely concerned. Never mind about the niceties of a couple of squad players going and being treated so badly on the way out and the dreadful way it's all been mis-managed (and please note still no word from Tilly on any of this this week). Everything seems a lot more serious than two players moving on. As Beefy says, it's about adding everything up together. And what if there are more revelations and developments that emerge?

For me, it now goes beyond whether we stay up or Tilly will still be our manager come the end of the season. The more important question is whether the club will be able to fulfill its fixtures this year. I believe things are that serious. I really hope I'm wrong.

I don't think it matters what we're told at the AGM tomorrow. It won't make any difference. The people who want to believe everything they're being told will continue to believe there's no problem until the Titanic sinks. And the people who doubt the club has been properly managed financially will continue to feel that.

Anyone will believe what they want on either side of the argument until they eventually find out all the facts. I believe more could come out when Chris Phillips or whoever is asking eventually finds out the answers rather than accept the brush off line. The sort of bruising attitude we've seen recently was also used by other much bigger fish who thought if they shouted that everything was fine loud enough things would never unravel. That also concerns me. Remember Maxwell anyone? Things weren't right for a long time, but his forceful attitude shut quite a few people up. Quite a useful tactic if it works.

Not saying that anything crooked is going on at SUFC, but the point is we have to look through the official line that they'll naturally give that all's ok. We don't necessarily have to disbelieve it, but we should question it. Our debts got worse at a time when we had increased revenues from numerous sources - lucrative cup runs, 2 cup finals, 2 play offs, 1 championship, lots of TV revenue, sale of second most expensive player in our history - despite all that, we're making huge losses. Something is going seriously wrong somewhere with the financial management of this club. And at a time when all businesses have tough cash restraints.

Interestingly, whenever something serious has gone on behind the scenes previously, most fans didn't know what was really going on at the time. When players were being shipped out about 25 years ago, it wasn't because Dave Smith wanted to get rid of them all or make way for others coming in, although many fans questioned his judgement at the time. Eventually things became clearer.

You may say moving on Revell and Betsy is positive action to save the club. I'd like to believe that. I'm all for a smaller squad if it means we have a club to support at all. However, shifting deckchairs on the Titanic comes to mind.

Time will tell. I really do I hope I'm completely wrong.
 
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Fbm and Beefy, I applaud and appreciate your posts.

I'm glad that there are still those posting who want to look for positives and reasons to be grateful and proud of OUR club even though recent news looks troubling.

I don't have anything significant to add to what I have found to be a really insightful thread (apart from our one poster who shares the name of a market town up the M1 and who, frankly, has only embarrassed himself with his posts).

I am more than a little worried about the financial situation of the club, but I'll still be there on Friday night cheering on the team I love. I'd like to see 7 subs on the bench but if it's only 6 then so be it.

Like our posters have said; things do not seem to be good but they could be much worse.

Up the Blues!
 
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