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Lord Football

Blues on Tour
Joined
Dec 18, 2004
Messages
3,532
Location
Sunny Southend on Sea
I've been a bit quiet on here for a while, frankly the whole political arena is depressing. Even so, I've busy doing what I do. I thought I'd share some thoughts....

The Recession

The recession was caused, in essence, by the collapse of the banking industry that took a gung-ho approach to borrowing and lending. However, whilst the banking industry pretty much got away scott free, especially those at the top who made decisions; it is the public service and public servants who will have to pay for their mistakes. It seems to have been long forgotten that in fact the banks are to blame, and for the last 18 months the press and politicians have banged on about the public service to the point that many people actually believe the financial deficit is somehow the fault of public servants and of the public service.

What is the Public Service

The public service is what it says on the tin, a service to the public. This includes the NHS, schools, transport, council services, welfare, tax collection, border protection and so on. I am sure everyone who reads this board takes something from the public sector, be it sending your kids to school, going to the doctor, driving.

The Cuts

George Osborne has promised cuts in the public service of anywhere between 25% and 40%. The effect will be somewhere in the region of 400000 people being put on the dole as jobs disappear, which cannot be good for the economy in anyone's book. It will also mean a degregation in the service you recieve, a service that has been several times with cuts by the previous Government.

Taxation

Another measure to decrease the deficit is the increase in VAT. Whilst an increase of 2.5% does not seem to be excessive, you need to remember that you pay VAT on pretty much everything - food, telecoms costs, petrol. So, for example, if you spend £1000 a month on these items, you will now be paying an additional £25 in VAT.

Hypocritically, there are no planned changes to the tax legislation, which still allows for the super rich to use off shore accounts and thus avoiding paying tax. The tax gap is currently running at £140bn, which is pretty much the same as the debt the Government are looking to pay off.

Whilst on the face of it the freeze in Council Tax looks a positive step, in fact it is not. It means that Councils have to supply the same services for the same money. Given that inflation is again on the rise, it really means they have to supply the same for less. That means that as well as cutting jobs, they will also either have to stop supplying a service or simply wont be able to do it as efficiently. You may find grandma doesn't get her meals on wheels, you may find your bins aren't collected weekly, you may find your Housing Benefit isn't paid on time.

Welfare

With an estimated 400000 people likely to be hitting the dole queues from public sector alone, the Government are tightening up the welfare rules to make it harder to claim and will be paying out less. So those unfortunate to lose their jobs will get a double whammy.

Redundancy

My union overturned the Brown Government in the High Court over changes to the Civil Service redundancy scheme. The new Government are looking to bring in a worse package, but know its illegal. So they will simple change the Laws. They remain the only employer in the country with the ability to change Money Bills and Employment Law to suit their own needs.

Public Sector Pensions.

Often described as "gold plated", the average public sector pension is in fact £6340 per year. Sadly, when discussing the public sector pension issue, the press and Government prefer to quote those payouts for those who work at the very top of the organisation thus giving the impression that they are the norm.

Public Sector Suppliers

A whole raft of companies supply public sector bodies with a variety of products. These range from stationary to hire cars. All these companies will see a decrease in business due to cutting of costs and jobs. The net effect will be that some of these business, through no fault of their own, will fail and close down. This puts more people onto the dole.

European Response

Ireland, Spain and Greece are all pretty much in financial meltdown as an after effect of swingeing Government cuts. Greece is almost at the point of serious social unrest. Unfortunately, Cameron and his crowd have not seen the link and are ploughing on regardless.

Manifesto

The Lib Dems counselled against drastic cuts in the public service whilst the economy was still in an uncertain state and called for these cuts to made in future years. Sadly, given the sniff of power they have forgotten this and are happy to break their election promise. In a recent opinion poll, it identified that if an election was held today, they would get just 10 seats.

The Conversatives claimed they would not make a VAT hike, it took them less than 100 days to break that promise.

Southend Effect

I fully expect to find myself without a job at some point in the next year or so. I fully expect 400 or so others in Southend to be in the same boat. That is an additional 400 people looking for a work in a town with no jobs. No jobs for me, no jobs for you, no jobs for your kids. We become a town with no future.

I make the above post without making a polticial point, but merely to explain what the austerity measures mean for us all, and to highlight the illogic steps being taken by the current administation.

The political point is that at some point I fully expect the TUC to call for massive industrial action, possibly even something on the level of the 1926 General Strike. I also fully expect the Government to attempt to silence the debate by introducing yet more draconian anti Trade Union legislation (we already have the strictest Laws in the EU).

Interesting and unpleasant times lay ahead for us all.
 

Mad Cyril

Proud sponsor of Mark Molesley's white trainers⭐
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
18,426
Location
Flavour country
The recession was caused, in essence, by the collapse of the banking industry that took a gung-ho approach to borrowing and lending. However, whilst the banking industry pretty much got away scott free, especially those at the top who made decisions; it is the public service and public servants who will have to pay for their mistakes. It seems to have been long forgotten that in fact the banks are to blame

Have no public sector workers - especially those at the top - made any mistakes regarding borrowing or spending?

If the government had stashed a bit when business was booming we might not have had to write so much debt to pay for the problems we are now facing.

Instead they acted with the same levels of irresponsibility as those who remortgaged to fund lifestyle purchases.

it is the public service and public servants who will have to pay for their mistakes

Plenty of private sector staff have already paid by being made redundant because the private sector moved a lot quicker to make cuts. The only people who won't suffer are the rich.

Sadly, when discussing the public sector pension issue, the press and Government prefer to quote those payouts for those who work at the very top of the organisation thus giving the impression that they are the norm.

I seem to remember the same regarding the salaries of those who work in the financial sector when they were in the firing line.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
261
Location
London
The structural defecit that this government is seeking to cut has nothing to do with the recession or banking crisis. The money plowed into the banking system over the last few years is detailed in our overall debt, but not our defecit. By trying to convince people otherwise, you're either being duplicitous or ignorant - take your pick.

You point out a number of potential problems - those losing the jobs in the public sector will indeed place an added burden by being on the dole - but you fail to suggest any solutions. It is all very well noting that people will be put out of work, but the simple fact is we cannot continue to live beyond our means with a public sector that is so overwhelmingly bloated.

If, as you suggest, the public sector jobs being cut are so important to all of our welfare, then there will undoubtedly continue to be demand for those services. Would it not therefore be possible for the private sector to provide them? Or, if as I suspect, the jobs being cut are expendable, then the civil servants etc. that you say are talented, hard-working, and intelligent will surely not find it hard to gain employment elsewhere.

As a 19 year old, I find it increasingly annoying to hear Union leaders, and Labour MPs say (and this was actually a quote from a Labour peer) 'as government we're allowed to borrow without intending to pay it back'. Actually you're not. Because it'll be my generation and generations to follow that'll have to pay the vast interest on our abhorrent debt.

To those complaining - get real, and take some responsibility for yourself, instead of blaming others. It will be hard, but tough - we can't afford to keep on paying for non-jobs and living beyond our means.
 

osymandus

Life President
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
5,352
Location
Here there everywhere
The structural defecit that this government is seeking to cut has nothing to do with the recession or banking crisis. The money plowed into the banking system over the last few years is detailed in our overall debt, but not our defecit. By trying to convince people otherwise, you're either being duplicitous or ignorant - take your pick.

You point out a number of potential problems - those losing the jobs in the public sector will indeed place an added burden by being on the dole - but you fail to suggest any solutions. It is all very well noting that people will be put out of work, but the simple fact is we cannot continue to live beyond our means with a public sector that is so overwhelmingly bloated.

If, as you suggest, the public sector jobs being cut are so important to all of our welfare, then there will undoubtedly continue to be demand for those services. Would it not therefore be possible for the private sector to provide them? Or, if as I suspect, the jobs being cut are expendable, then the civil servants etc. that you say are talented, hard-working, and intelligent will surely not find it hard to gain employment elsewhere.

As a 19 year old, I find it increasingly annoying to hear Union leaders, and Labour MPs say (and this was actually a quote from a Labour peer) 'as government we're allowed to borrow without intending to pay it back'. Actually you're not. Because it'll be my generation and generations to follow that'll have to pay the vast interest on our abhorrent debt.

To those complaining - get real, and take some responsibility for yourself, instead of blaming others. It will be hard, but tough - we can't afford to keep on paying for non-jobs and living beyond our means.

2 Points here . Shunting essential services to a private sector becomes just as much a burden on future generations as does uncontrolled debt. When people talk of the private and public sector it is ion itself a lie . They are joined not seperate not good or bad . The governments of countries are associates / directors or even owners of some of teh largest industries and capital controllers . The idea of teh private sector is its a reaper it hoovers up the seeds ripe for picking , sadly in recent years to get as large and amount as possible they ringtail the good's use odd metho's sometimes poisonous to the crop , because as the sellers of teh crop they sometimes forgot they dont really understand how 1) Make it 2) care for it 3) make sure its still there in 50 years time

Personal responsibility starts with teh individual , that means everyone, just because you choose to work 12 hours a day dsont make you better then some one who just works say 5. We believe that the mass quality of quantity is the norm and the greatest achievement . The result is the world we see around us . MArketing and adertisment agencies wouldnt have moneys that are teh size of small to med countries GDP if they had no affect on what you think feel and buy .
 

Napster

The Horse with no Name⭐
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
35,448
Location
The wilds of Kent
Personal responsibility starts with teh individual , that means everyone, just because you choose to work 12 hours a day dsont make you better then some one who just works say 5. We believe that the mass quality of quantity is the norm and the greatest achievement . The result is the world we see around us . MArketing and adertisment agencies wouldnt have moneys that are teh size of small to med countries GDP if they had no affect on what you think feel and buy .

Bollocks. You can choose not to be influenced. Plus, I am better than those who choose not to work and claim benefits.
 

osymandus

Life President
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
5,352
Location
Here there everywhere
Bollocks. You can choose not to be influenced. Plus, I am better than those who choose not to work and claim benefits.

Lots of people do (and im one i hope) to not be , however teh industry doesn't care because it has Billions who do.
That's your opinion and that of millions of others ... sadly teh product is all around us so im guessing its not worked out to well :P
 

Napster

The Horse with no Name⭐
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Messages
35,448
Location
The wilds of Kent
Lots of people do (and im one i hope) to not be , however teh industry doesn't care because it has Billions who do.
That's your opinion and that of millions of others ... sadly teh product is all around us so im guessing its not worked out to well :P

fair enough. :useless:
 
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