Ron Martin - the statement

[Irate Ian]

I have to say I am struggling to understand why irate ian, and any others who share his views, feel that they are entitled to know the ins and outs of everything that goes on at SUFC.

I'm not saying we don't want to know; of course we do. But why should we be entitled to know?

That is the point steveo is trying to get across.

Irate Ian, if you don't like it, vote with your feet. RM has no legal obligation to let any of us know anything at all. You're acting as though you are some sort of auditor, which you're not. As I said on another thread, if you get answers you don't like, what exactly are you going to do about it?

Come on mate, turn all this energy into positive energy for Gods sake. This isn't achieving anything.

"Struggling to understand" Let's break it down to "brass tacks" and spell it out a little for anyone who may be in any doubt:-


Supporters will end up having to pay for every penny of borrowing and probably the developers profits [assuming they are not to build this for nought] through the turnstiles, from now until long after our funerals.

If ultimately we are to pay for it, to ask questions how much and to whom is not at all unreasonable.

Do you make major financial & long term commitments without asking or even enquiring of the price in advance ?

 

[davewebbsbrain]

I have to say I am struggling to understand why irate ian, and any others who share his views, feel that they are entitled to know the ins and outs of everything that goes on at SUFC.

I'm not saying we don't want to know; of course we do. But why should we be entitled to know?

That is the point steveo is trying to get across.

Irate Ian, if you don't like it, vote with your feet. RM has no legal obligation to let any of us know anything at all. You're acting as though you are some sort of auditor, which you're not. As I said on another thread, if you get answers you don't like, what exactly are you going to do about it?

Come on mate, turn all this energy into positive energy for Gods sake. This isn't achieving anything.

Agreed...there is a lot of negativity coming from II's crusade. It's about time it was put to bed Ian and start worrying about things in you own personal life!

 

[bishmania]

I don't know you J and I've never met you in person,

All I have to say is :clap:

It's easy to abuse people and it's even easier to ignore that abuse you've given,

It takes a big man to seek out and apologise for that!

Praise must also go to Ron,

As I've said in the past he doesn't have to answer our gripes on here but continually does, (who would blame him for ignoring some of the c**p he takes on here!

He didn't have to meet J, many wouldn't, but it goes to show again that Ron does have the club at heart and is a man of great integrity,

Like at any football club there will be things going on that we don't know about but we know a hell of a lot more about our club than most of the other 92 in this league.

We're only five games in, we've got an experienced CM on the way (if he can agree terms), we have Mr Barrett, we have Macca to come back, we have one of the best and most experienced Championship strikers of recent years.

We can do this, Tilly can do this, let's get behind the boys and cheer us on to glory and another evening with Andy Ansah on the bar eh J!

 

[Irate Ian]

Agreed...there is a lot of negativity coming from II's crusade. It's about time it was put to bed Ian and start worrying about things in you own personal life!

The future of SUFC is part of my personal life, and yes I am worrying about it.

If you get hit with a few financial bombshells in the future, please don't come on here moaning and groaning.

 

[fbm]

"Struggling to understand" Let's break it down to "brass tacks" and spell it out a little for anyone who may be in any doubt:-


Supporters will end up having to pay for every penny of borrowing and probably the developers profits [assuming they are not to build this for nought] through the turnstiles, from now until long after our funerals.

If ultimately we are to pay for it, to ask questions how much and to whom is not at all unreasonable.

Do you make major financial & long term commitments without asking or even enquiring of the price in advance ?

I'm not struggling to understand the issues. I'm struggling to understand why you think you should be some sort of personal auditor, and if you get the answers that you don't like, what you are exactly going to do about it?

We support our football club. The money we pay to our club in entrance fees hardly constitutes a major financial investment. It is in return for 90 minutes entertainment (smartass comments aside) and to help our club stay in existence so we can do the same next season. Yes, it helps run the club but the majority of the money comes from TV and sponsorship.

If you don't want to do it, then don't. It's as simple as that really. I am sure that in years to come you may well be right, in which case you can come on here and gloat. But unless you are in a position to take some sort of action yourself, then what's the point?

That's what I want to know - what are you going to do about it if the answers aren't to your satisfaction?

The answer to that question, unless you have about £20million... is precisely nothing, except perhaps stop going to the Hall.

 

[Irate Ian]

I'm not struggling to understand the issues. I'm struggling to understand why you think you should be some sort of personal auditor, and if you get the answers that you don't like, what you are exactly going to do about it?

We support our football club. The money we pay to our club in entrance fees hardly constitutes a major financial investment. It is in return for 90 minutes entertainment (smartass comments aside) and to help our club stay in existence so we can do the same next season. Yes, it helps run the club but the majority of the money comes from TV and sponsorship.

If you don't want to do it, then don't. It's as simple as that really. I am sure that in years to come you may well be right, in which case you can come on here and gloat. But unless you are in a position to take some sort of action yourself, then what's the point?

That's what I want to know - what are you going to do about it if the answers aren't to your satisfaction?

The answer to that question, unless you have about £20million... is precisely nothing, except perhaps stop going to the Hall.

We all earn the right to ask questions, it's our birth right and it's called: living in a democracy.

RM may only have a 20% stake and maybe the questions need to be raised elsewhere & with others, as drawing to the conclusion this forum is maybe not the place, as you and others have espouted.

 

[fbm]

We all earn the right to ask questions, it's our birth right and it's called: living in a democracy.

RM may only have a 20% stake and maybe the questions need to be raised elsewhere & with others, as drawing to the conclusion this forum is maybe not the place, as you and others have espouted.

Yes mate, we can ask questions, but generally only when it's something to do with us. Could I enquire about your bank balances, and how you finance your lifestyle? Of course I couldn't - because it's nothing to do with me.

I don't think supporting a football club and paying entrance fees gives us any more of a right to ask searching questions about the running of that club than someone who does their weekly shopping at Tescos and then enquires why they pay their CEO such vast bonuses.

If they didn't get an answer, or didn't like the answer they got, they may well switch to Asda. Even if they were shareholders and every private shareholder felt the same, they couldn't do anything about it because of the institutional holdings. They would have to buy the company and get a majority shareholding (or at least the support of the majority shareholders) in order to change anything.

But, if enough people felt the same, and every consumer deserted Tesco, then maybe the shareholders would see what was happening and change things. After all, all supermarkets sell pretty much the same stuff, it's only the price that differs.

It's not like that at a footie club though. We don't support the product (i.e. the football) - we support the team. If results are bad we'll perhaps not go to watch but we wouldn't switch to support, say, Colchester, would we?

Which is my point! You are not in a position to act on the information you get in any meaningful way. Democracy or not, you're wasting your energy.

 

[Jam_Man]

The future of SUFC is part of my personal life, and yes I am worrying about it.

If you get hit with a few financial bombshells in the future, please don't come on here moaning and groaning.

Did you moan and groan when debts were covered and bills paid by the owners when the money from us supporters didnt go far enough ?

Funnily we all want the club to be answerable so we dont have to pay a penny extra in the future, but we have operated at a loss for many years until very recently and I dont believe anyone was demanding we supporters should all pay the debts off.

I agree with the Questions you are asking Ian and will be interested in the answers and hope they are favourable, but at the end of the day the football club only exists because someone else kept it alive for us so I think its fair to give them a little credit....

 

[steveo]

We all earn the right to ask questions, it's our birth right and it's called: living in a democracy.

And that means Ron also has the right to ignore your questions.

 

[Irate Ian]

And that means Ron also has the right to ignore your questions.

Yes but you question the right to ask the questions.

Try not moving the goalposts to suit your argument.

 

[cockles is back]

Agreed...there is a lot of negativity coming from II's crusade. It's about time it was put to bed Ian and start worrying about things in you own personal life!

keep up the good work ian, one mans crusade for the honerable answers to all these burning and important question, any real fan of club over 100 years old should applaud a person like you fighting for the truth what ever that may be. I applaud you, and only the most ignorant would reallly believe that all is weel in the garden of eaden

 

[Irate Ian]

Did you moan and groan when debts were covered and bills paid by the owners when the money from us supporters didnt go far enough ?

Funnily we all want the club to be answerable so we dont have to pay a penny extra in the future, but we have operated at a loss for many years until very recently and I dont believe anyone was demanding we supporters should all pay the debts off.

I agree with the Questions you are asking Ian and will be interested in the answers and hope they are favourable, but at the end of the day the football club only exists because someone else kept it alive for us so I think its fair to give them a little credit....

I agree and respect your comments Jam Man, having variously expressed cautious supportive comments concerning RM in a number of threads.

All thread answers by members of this forum are open to scrutiny on their history page and beyond reference to the failure to honour, answering as promised, I think you may find my responses to be consistent to that extent.

Some here think this is a personal vendetta. They could not be further from the truth, albeit that it might seem that way, due to being forced into pro-active steps to remind everyone that RM has not responded as was his stated intention/commitment to do so in March 08.

The facts and the detail behind them that do still require substantive clarification. The silence remains deafening for unknown reasons.

 

[steveo]

Yes but you question the right to ask the questions.

Try not moving the goalposts to suit your argument.
__________________

Ian, its the same as the Bailey thread. You only take notice of the bits you want to.

No one is questioning your right to ask questions. But you have asked te questions and had the answers. Not happy with that you know want the answers to be written down.

What me and a few others are saying is be happy you've had some answers. Maybe its time to leave Ron alone for a while.

Why not go back to the Bailey thread and answer my last post there.

 

[Jam_Man]

Some here think this is a personal vendetta. They could not be further from the truth, albeit that it might seem that way, due to being forced into pro-active steps to remind everyone that RM has not responded as was his stated intention/commitment to do so in March 08.
.

I was one of them when you started posting pre-meeting with RM.

What I know now though is you actually have some faith in him yet thats waning as you havent received the answers he promised you.

All Id say is that you were happy after your discussion with RM after your verbal discussion and that whilst he does owe you your reply I Cant imagine he pulled the wool over your eyes so much for your opinion at that time to have changed.

By all means chase for a response but do it in a sctructured and well worded manner and you will get far more support to what are valid questions.

 

[Jam_Man]

I applaud you, and only the most ignorant would reallly believe that all is weel in the garden of eaden

If J can come out of a meeting feeling positive about the garden of eden Id suggest all is fairly well. Certainly not as doomed as some people seem to think...

 

[Irate Ian]

If J can come out of a meeting feeling positive about the garden of eden Id suggest all is fairly well. Certainly not as doomed as some people seem to think...

Please bear in mind I too came away from the March meeting with a similar view.

Whilst I had been warned beforehand that RM is "silver tongued" and likely to talk a good game but not actually disclose anything, I came away with an open mind, whilst anticipating he would keep his promise to respond to all the questions by email.

His Modus Operandi does now appear to me to be to seek to win over "hearts and minds" with promises, which fail to be delivered upon.

 

[J]

keep up the good work ian, one mans crusade for the honerable answers to all these burning and important question, any real fan of club over 100 years old should applaud a person like you fighting for the truth what ever that may be. I applaud you, and only the most ignorant would reallly believe that all is weel in the garden of eaden

Here here... Ian, as per my PM's keep pushing for the answers you require.

 

[J]

If J can come out of a meeting feeling positive about the garden of eden Id suggest all is fairly well. Certainly not as doomed as some people seem to think...

I felt more positive, however read the post and please state where i agreed completely with everything, as i said, i got answers, but not all were the one's i wanted.

 

[WestRoadShrimper]

Why does it not surprise me that ANOTHER thread has been taken over by II going on about unanswered questions?

Yes, these questions are important, and yes, they do need answering (if you don't feel that J's meeting has already done that), but PLEASE stop posting about them in every thread that vaguely relates to them.

I was very interested when these questions were first asked but, although there are some who are still very supportive of II's crusade, I'm sure I'm not in the minority in getting REALLY fed up with the constant thread hijacking to go on and on about them.

PLEASE keep all of this stuff about the stadium in one place, as I'm pretty certain you'll find a lot more people posting in agreement with you as opposed to posting in disagreement. I know that I, for one, would do.

 

[Irate Ian]

Why does it not surprise me that ANOTHER thread has been taken over by II going on about unanswered questions?


The postings are nothing of the sort, they refer to inter-related topics following on from J's more recent meeting.